Pakistan's Service Rifle (G-3, Type-56) Replacement Competition 2016.

[blain2]

India will reorder 73000 sig 716 , even though galil is now made in India by plr systems with joint venture with IWI
View attachment 846197
A range of products made by plr at gwalior factory of theirs


Pardon me for my ignorance but i dare to assume most money is channeled towards procurement of big ticket items like tanks , helis etc .
And small arms take a secondry nature , isn't it ?

That also but for as long as the G-3 assembly is alive and kicking out variants along with outright purchases of AK variants from various Eastern European countries, it is a matter of letting things go because current needs are being met, however looking ahead, decisions are pending.

Fortunately for Pakistan, we never switched from 7.62x51 to 5.56 in our production line and as you can see the 7.62 round's efficacy is still relevant so this transition, in which Pakistan ended up buying a relatively smaller number of 5.56 Carbines from Colt for our Special Forces, was avoided otherwise we would have seriously been in a difficult spot being forced to transition back from 5.56mm to a more potent round etc.

 

[Sayfullah]

Its almost a $500M investment in uplift of POF facilities plus licensing that Pakistan has to fork out to switch to the next generation weapon system for infantry. The government has no money for this. Thus variants of G-3, AKs with 3rd party add-ons will continue.

With 60% of the defence budget being funded through loans instead of homegrown revenue generation, one can imagine the principle + interest implications of such a venture on an economy which is already extremely stressed.


I think you have one extra zero in your price. The SCAR is in the range of $3500-$4500 at retail pricing in the civilian market. For militaries, the unit cost would be lower.

Can’t private sector be invited to invest in POF and POF instead of exclusively focusing on military, also make weapons for civilians and export to other countries? $500M isn’t that much if we can get private sector to invest into POF and they make guns using POF facilities and sell to customers they find. POF should be part privatized and make a plan to become profitable so it’s not reliant on government budget and can progress and act on its own similar to big gun companies like H&K or Colt.

Big gun makers in Dara should also be persuaded to set up bigger gun factories in Pakistan and get Hugh quality materials from POF. These gun makers should be helped to make products and they export and sell their products. Many very rich gun makers live in Dara and with the right government support we can have many private companies like H&K and Colt pop up out of Dara who can develop weapons for our army and raise our exports.

 

[MisterSyed]

Scar is around 4500

AK 103s are dirt cheap 500-700$

But if you buy custom AK that's like 1000 -2000

Scar is expensive. I don't think PA will choose it as a Primary weapon though. AK103s Maybe? Maybe not???

 

[Metal 0-1]

Scar is expensive. I don't think PA will choose it as a Primary weapon though. AK103s Maybe? Maybe not???

AK-103 with TOT and proper machining would be a good choice. If they chose to do it

 

[blain2]

Can’t private sector be invited to invest in POF and POF instead of exclusively focusing on military, also make weapons for civilians and export to other countries? $500M isn’t that much if we can get private sector to invest into POF and they make guns using POF facilities and sell to customers they find. POF should be part privatized and make a plan to become profitable so it’s not reliant on government budget and can progress and act on its own similar to big gun companies like H&K or Colt.

Big gun makers in Dara should also be persuaded to set up bigger gun factories in Pakistan and get Hugh quality materials from POF. These gun makers should be helped to make products and they export and sell their products. Many very rich gun makers live in Dara and with the right government support we can have many private companies like H&K and Colt pop up out of Dara who can develop weapons for our army and raise our exports.

Honestly, this has been tried a few times in the past. The reality is that for Darra manufacturers to make Mil.standard weaponry is not possible for various reasons including the fact that there are too many small shops which cannot scale to meet the demands of the government and with investment money in short supply, which is needed to upgrade and standardize their production/assembly lines, the easiest route would be to give this infusion to POF.

Private sector has to see incentives from the government. Not very many are forthcoming.

Big gun manufacturers have offered licensed production including CZ, Colt, MKEK etc. but all of these are expensive propositions for which Pakistan has no money currently. This has been a start and stop process because the urgency is not extreme given kaam chal raha hai.

 

[Zarvan]

That also but for as long as the G-3 assembly is alive and kicking out variants along with outright purchases of AK variants from various Eastern European countries, it is a matter of letting things go because current needs are being met, however looking ahead, decisions are pending.

Fortunately for Pakistan, we never switched from 7.62x51 to 5.56 in our production line and as you can see the 7.62 round's efficacy is still relevant so this transition, in which Pakistan ended up buying a relatively smaller number of 5.56 Carbines from Colt for our Special Forces, was avoided otherwise we would have seriously been in a difficult spot being forced to transition back from 5.56mm to a more potent round etc.

One of the major lesson of Ukraine Russia war is that you should have your infantry equipped. Better assault rifles, better scopes, better night and thermal vision scopes system which are mounted on helmets. Plus good light weight anti tank weapons.

 

[Reichmarshal]

One of the major lesson of Ukraine Russia war is that you should have your infantry equipped. Better assault rifles, better scopes, better night and thermal vision scopes system which are mounted on helmets. Plus good light weight anti tank weapons.

the actual lesson is
man-portable anti-tank weapons

 

[Zarvan]

the actual lesson is
man-portable anti-tank weapons

They are one part. Another major advantage which is also clear is Ukraine soldier was better equipped. From rifle to scopes and night vision to other gear

 

[RescueRanger]

the actual lesson is
man-portable anti-tank weapons

Forward observers + agile well equipped infantry units are the future of combat, throw in drones and roving munitions and you can have a good old Mexican stand-off.

 

[Reichmarshal]

Forward observers + agile well equipped infantry units are the future of combat, throw in drones and roving munitions and you can have a good old Mexican stand-off.

The real reason why this war has progressed so badly for both Russia n Ukraine is the simple reason that this war is largely being fought between conscripts, who have performed miserably on the battlefield. and in most cases have deserted their positions without putting up any sort of fight.
where ever regular army has been fielded it has largely wiped the floor with the oppisition.

So wt it tells us is that to win any sort of conflict u need well-trained properly equipped and supported soldiers/army.

 

[Reichmarshal]

They are one part. Another major advantage which is also clear is Ukraine soldier was better equipped. From rifle to scopes and night vision to other gear

don't know about that, at the start of the conflict both were at the same level equipment-wise, would say the Russians were better quipped.....but with the western help, the Ukrainian forces have now started to overtake the Russians equipment-wise.

 

[Zarvan]

Some really good products from KaleKalip the Turkish company. They are making some seriously good products

KALE KALIP | KCR762 16” Infantry Rifle

KCR762

www.kalekalip.com.tr

 

[Zarvan]

Turkey is our way forward for small arms also. Even if they are not exactly according to our demands then soon they will be. We need joint collaboration with them.

 

[CrazyZ]

Turkey is our way forward for small arms also. Even if they are not exactly according to our demands then soon they will be. We need joint collaboration with them.

One thing POF can do is to enhance its manufacturing machinery (China and Germany are the leaders here). With better machinery......POF can make quality knocks offs of AR, AK.....or even SCAR. The newest PLA service rifle is very similar to HK416 (AR) platform......which is not a bad thing. Even POF G3 can be improved in quality, if POF had bettery machinery. Industrial collaboration with China is the best starting point, IMO.

 

[Thəorətic Muslim]

Honestly, this has been tried a few times in the past. The reality is that for Darra manufacturers to make Mil.standard weaponry is not possible for various reasons including the fact that there are too many small shops which cannot scale to meet the demands of the government and with investment money in short supply, which is needed to upgrade and standardize their production/assembly lines, the easiest route would be to give this infusion to POF.

The same is true for the Japanese defense industry. They're not making 100,000 Howa assault rifles every year but a total spread over a span of 10+ years so the local craftsmen/women are able to preserve their knowledge.

There's easily a market for Dara custom guns in the US. Pakistanis just suck at entrepreneurship. With the military having a hard on for foreign equipment over nurturing local talent. Just look at the shitshow defense exhibits being put on.