Pakistan's Service Rifle (G-3, Type-56) Replacement Competition 2016.

[wasileo80]

Aray nahin bhai....
Whatever you said is the truth... Which makes me sad....
I mean we were able to make atomic weapons 40 years ago, but couldn't make a damn rifle... Bari ajeeb baat hai....

Very true Sir, and its not about that Pakistanies are not talented, they are rich in innovative ideas but there is no supervision of these young and engergetic brains during their University level and in their professional career. Whereas, same people when go abraod and they find any opportunity they gave outstanding results in innovation and technology.

And in armed forces, you knows better why we are behind in R&D and modern production facilities.
And if you will allow me then i can also mention those reasons as well.

 

[Raja Porus]

Dobara ghas khana shuru karty hain phir sir kya pata kuch ban jaye

Best one I've heard so far

Tussi apni jaydad waicho.. Tey fir waikho... SCAR aayi aayi..

Lagda ay sanoon G3 he chalaan paway di.

 

[Bilal.]

They are not of good quality either.... Barrels expand after firing few rounds, accuracy deteriorates, cone of fire expands, feeding problems, get too hot to handle...

How hard is it to get a couple of CHF machines and source some good quality chrome-moly barrel blanks?

 

[PanzerKiel]

How hard is it to get a couple of CHF machines and source some good quality chrome-moly barrel blanks?

It's not hard getting these things... Hard is the decision to go self sufficient.... We took that decision once and became atomic power.... Imagine....

 

[Bilal.]

It's not hard getting these things... Hard is the decision to go self sufficient.... We took that decision once and became atomic power.... Imagine....

True. Imagining how we overcame all the decision making paralysis that we suffer in pretty much every aspect for our strategic programme seems almost mythical.

 

[Raja Porus]

mythical

That's the word

 

[CriticalThought]

True. Imagining how we overcame all the decision making paralysis that we suffer in pretty much every aspect for our strategic programme seems almost mythical.

We didn't overcome anything. The man Bhutto had it within himself, and he basically kicked the top leadership into action. The man Zia ul Haq had something called self-respect. Aslam Baig inherited the legacy of a leader potentially murdered by the Americans. Still, we see Kashmir heating up throughout the 90s, right up till Jehangir Kiramat who supervised the nuclear explosions. But since the traitor Pervaiz Musharraf came into power, we really only have two men: Kiyani and Raheel Sharif. No wonder you have such paralysis on important decisions.

 

[Bilal.]

That's the word

It would take literally less than $5 million USD to get those machines. Material wise, to start with just source the barrel blanks from established suppliers (tons of them out there).

 

[bhola record]

It's not hard getting these things... Hard is the decision to go self sufficient.... We took that decision once and became atomic power.... Imagine....

The motivation is missing in my opinion.The reason we got a nuclear bomb was directly linked to our survival.The zest too is missing.We must motivate our people why a petty thing like a rifle is necessary and why self sufficiency is necessary.

 

[CriticalThought]

It would take literally less than $5 million USD to get this machines. Material wise, to start with just source the barrel blanks from established suppliers (tons of them out their).

For producing a viable prototype, yes. But is it really your own rifle if you are dependent on spare parts of the machines and the barrel blanks? Try producing these locally and now you see the true scale of the problem, and our lack of technological depth.

The motivation is missing in my opinion.The reason we got a nuclear bomb was directly linked to our survival.The zest too is missing.We must motivate our people why a petty thing like a rifle is necessary and why self sufficiency is necessary.

It has nothing to do with survival. Today, our survival depends on not letting Kashmir, the source of our water, get into Indian hands. What are you leaders doing? Nothing. If these were leaders in 1971, who knows there might not have been a Pakistan today. Our needs are as dire as always, but we have traitors sitting at the top.

 

[Bilal.]

For producing a viable prototype, yes. But is it really your own rifle if you are dependent on spare parts of the machines and the barrel blanks? Try producing these locally and now you see the true scale of the problem, and our lack of technological depth.

Believe me, it’s not... that’s all I will say.

 

[CriticalThought]

Believe me, it’s not... that’s all I will say.

Can you please be a bit more clear about what is, and what is not? Your response is a bit ambiguous.

 

[Bilal.]

Can you please be a bit more clear about what is, and what is not? Your response is a bit ambiguous.

It’s not as complicated or risky as you think. You pointed to the risk of spares for the said machines. Do you know which country the machines in our ammunition production lines in POF are from? Much more problematic and risky compared to CHF machines (good quality) available from much friendlier countries including Turkey. Blanks are also available from much less problematic countries. It doesn’t stop us from producing ammo, does it?

 

[CriticalThought]

It’s not as complicated or risky as you think. You pointed to the risk of spares for the said machines. Do you know which country the machines in our ammunition production lines in POF are from? Much more problematic and risky compared to CHF machines (good quality) available from much friendlier countries including Turkey. Blanks are also available from much less problematic countries. It doesn’t stop us from producing ammo, does it?

There are a few angles from which you need to analyze any indigenization project. The first one is finance. The only way the R&D effort is worth your time and money is if it leads to exports. As soon as you try to export, your clients will look at your supply chain. What if one of your friendly countries has a contention with your client? Would your client want to place himself at risk through you? For example, what if you are placed on the FATF black list, or additional sanctions are imposed upon you? Would you be able to keep up the supply?

We like to think that indigenous projects can be done for local consumption, but we need to understand that it would not be financially viable. It resolves down to having the independent desire to be a power wielder in the world. To make the world change around you, instead of changing for the world. Look at your leadership, they are already bent double to accommodate the world. You will never get a viable local industry with this mindset.

 

[Bilal.]

There are a few angles from which you need to analyze any indigenization project. The first one is finance. The only way the R&D effort is worth your time and money is if it leads to exports. As soon as you try to export, your clients will look at your supply chain. What if one of your friendly countries has a contention with your client? Would your client want to place himself at risk through you? For example, what if you are placed on the FATF black list, or additional sanctions are imposed upon you? Would you be able to keep up the supply?

We like to think that indigenous projects can be done for local consumption, but we need to understand that it would not be financially viable. It resolves down to having the independent desire to be a power wielder in the world. To make the world change around you, instead of changing for the world. Look at your leadership, they are already bent double to accommodate the world. You will never get a viable local industry with this mindset.

So if it’s problematic to export in starting phase because you are sourcing some materials, you would rather import rifles worth a billion rather than produce it using sourced raw and semi finished material. Also there are no EUCs for barrel blanks, you can stock them and there are multiple sources.

Salami slicing brother. You are already talking about export issues while we were discussing making rifle for our needs.