Pakistan's Service Rifle (G-3, Type-56) Replacement Competition 2016.

[Muhammad Omar]

Ok guys, just for update, the new rifle program isnt dead yet. Things are still moving. Trials ended. Position wise 1. Fn scar design 2. cz 807 3. Arx-200 4. Ak-103A.

Financial nego may also have been nearly finalized, some feedback is being taken, after which most probably final decision will be taken.

But hopefully final would be between fn scar and cz-807, as both rifles are nearly clone of each other, rather cz made as a clone with just slight changes, rest same.

So lets hope for the best.

Finally some good update ... THANK YOU SIR

 

[TaimiKhan]

Sir there are two tenders one is for 7.62 X 39 and one is for 7.62 X 51 please details on that would be appreciated @Horus

It can be one design for both calibres or 2 rifles getting selected for different calibre options.

FN Scar got tested in the 7.62*51mm category, but from what i heard, they may also be giving option to give us capability / machinery to make the 7.62*39mm in the same design.

Same goes for CZ-807. The 7.62*39mm is already in use by some users, but 7.62*51mm has specially been brought for the trials of PA. So they are also giving options for both calibres.

 

[Path-Finder]

It can be one design for both calibres or 2 rifles getting selected for different calibre options.

FN Scar got tested in the 7.62*51mm category, but from what i heard, they may also be giving option to give us capability / machinery to make the 7.62*39mm in the same design.

Same goes for CZ-807. The 7.62*39mm is already in use by some users, but 7.62*51mm has specially been brought for the trials of PA. So they are also giving options for both calibres.

@Gryphon

 

[Bilal.]

In my opinion, the decision should be suspended for a couple of years, since 7.62 is becoming obsolescent and we are on the verge of new (and superior) caliber standard being introduced, most likely a creedmoor derivative that would utterly outclass 762 in terms of accuracy, range, power, recoil and weight.

 

[Kompromat]

In my opinion, the decision should be suspended for a couple of years, since 7.62 is becoming obsolescent and we are on the verge of new (and superior) caliber standard being introduced, most likely a creedmoor derivative that would utterly outclass 762 in terms of accuracy, range, power, recoil and weight.

Who will pay for billions of new rounds of ammunition?

 

[Bilal.]

Who will pay for billions of new rounds of ammunition?

It would have to be gradual for sure, but buying billions worth of rifles that will stay with us for the next 30-40 years should not be based on an obsolescent round in my opinion.

 

[Zarvan]

It would have to be gradual for sure, but buying billions worth of rifles that will stay with us for the next 30-40 years should not be based on an obsolescent round in my opinion.

It's a dam good round and in fact even India is looking to come to this round. Also USA may use this round soon

 

[Bilal.]

It's a dam good round and in fact even India is looking to come to this round. Also USA may use this round soon

I am assuming you are talking about creedmoor. India as it looks is going back to 7.62 NATO, but you are right about USA. Yes it is a damn good round, it simply blows away 308/7.62 NATO in all aspects of performance and specs. Only challenge as Horus pointed out is the logistics and economic one that would be expected from adopting a new ammo standard, which obviously is huge and cannot be understated.

 

[Kompromat]

7.62 is not obsolete my good friend. It still hits like an artillery shell. You must also consider that replacing a rifle isn't enough should you introduce a new round. You'd have to also replace almost a million machine guns and sniper rifles of various types.

It would have to be gradual for sure, but buying billions worth of rifles that will stay with us for the next 30-40 years should not be based on an obsolescent round in my opinion.

 

[Amaa'n]

7.62 is not obsolete my good friend. It still hits like an artillery shell. You must also consider that replacing a rifle isn't enough should you introduce a new round. You'd have to also replace almost a million machine guns and sniper rifles of various types.

well you don't have to throw away the entire lot, there is a potential for 3.8 S/A rifle in consumer market, be it Pakistan or US.
PoF would have got good ROI if Punjab had allowed them the sale of 308 Sporter with in Punjab.....few can be upgraded and sold to LEA for DMR role, this would include ASF, ANF, or your CTD.....problem with Pof is the marketing to the right sector and then the policy hurdles set by the govt......

 

[Bilal.]

7.62 is not obsolete my good friend. It still hits like an artillery shell. You must also consider that replacing a rifle isn't enough should you introduce a new round. You'd have to also replace almost a million machine guns and sniper rifles of various types.

Yes its not obsolete but obsolescent. If we are deciding on something that will stick for half a century, it should be future proof.

Plus as balixd pointed, it can still be utilized in other utilities. Plus, gradual replacement means that it will not all become redundant on the day 1 of the arrival of the first rifles.

 

[Amaa'n]

Yes its not obsolete but obsolescent. If we are deciding on something that will stick for half a century, it should be future proof.

Plus as balixd pointed, it can still be utilized in other utilities. Plus, gradual replacement means that it will not all become redundant on the day 1 of the arrival of the first rifles.

never used either of the rounds since both are not available in Pakistan, but if i was to pick a round it would be 300 AAC blackout.....what i have read and seen the ballistics, the round packs a punch of 7.62 x39 with a lean trajectory of a 223.....and considering M4 is already taking 300 blk round then am sure we would be able to upgrade our rifles to same standard be it 300 blk or 6.5 creemor .......

 

[Bilal.]

never used either of the rounds since both are not available in Pakistan, but if i was to pick a round it would be 300 AAC blackout.....what i have read and seen the ballistics, the round packs a punch of 7.62 x39 with a lean trajectory of a 223.....and considering M4 is already taking 300 blk round then am sure we would be able to upgrade our rifles to same standard be it 300 blk or 6.5 creemor .......

For SMG replacement, you are right, blackout or grendel could be good candidates whereas for battle/assault rifle, creedmoor takes the cake. Its accurate out to 1000 yds plus, stays supersonic longer and has lesser wind drift. Add to that the weight advantage and less recoil and it seems like a shooters dream.

 

[Amaa'n]

For SMG replacement, you are right, blackout or grendel could be good candidates whereas for battle/assault rifle, creedmoor takes the cake. Its accurate out to 1000 yds plus, stays supersonic longer and has lesser wind drift. Add to that the weight advantage and less recoil and it seems like a shooters dream.

for replacing the Battle rifle it would still take time because even NATO has n't adopted this round yet. 51N is still widely used be it SOCCOM units or the regular troops......although I am aware that 6.5 grandel is with USMC for sniper roles......

 

[Bilal.]

for replacing the Battle rifle it would still take time because even NATO has n't adopted this round yet. 51N is still widely used be it SOCCOM units or the regular troops......although I am aware that 6.5 grandel is with USMC for sniper roles......

They haven't adopted the new round yet but its under process, the so called over-match round that they are looking for, most likely it would be a creedmoor derivative. The decision, if I am not mistaken is due in a couple of years. Thats why we should wait for it, let the new round be adopted and we should follow suit. The economies of scale will be automatic.