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Pakistan's Service Rifle (G-3, Type-56) Replacement Competition 2016.

Which rifle should win the competition?

  • FN-SCAR-H

    Votes: 241 42.9%
  • Beretta ARX-200

    Votes: 62 11.0%
  • CZ-806 Bren2

    Votes: 116 20.6%
  • Kalashnikov AK-103

    Votes: 127 22.6%
  • Zavasta M21

    Votes: 17 3.0%

  • Total voters
    562
And why would you say that we should develop our own gun?
and
why 5.56?
well 5.56 has other advantages over 7.62, it is lighter so soldiers can carry more rounds, the gun will then be lighter and 7.62 is overkill for Pakistan. We dont even need those extreme ranges. we should develop our own gun to reduce reliance on other countries. we need to start producing our own weapons so that we can be self sufficient. if we create our own weapon. we can cater it for our own needs and increase our effectiveness
 
well 5.56 has other advantages over 7.62, it is lighter so soldiers can carry more rounds, the gun will then be lighter and 7.62 is overkill for Pakistan. We dont even need those extreme ranges. we should develop our own gun to reduce reliance on other countries. we need to start producing our own weapons so that we can be self sufficient. if we create our own weapon. we can cater it for our own needs and increase our effectiveness

To make it very simple for you the Doctrine behind 5.56 is not followed in Pakistan! The doctrine in PA is the person is shot to be killed, no faffing about with double tap or triple tap. If the soldier takes out the enemy with one round then less ammo needs to be carried.

5.56 is not a potent ammunition.
 
well 5.56 has other advantages over 7.62, it is lighter so soldiers can carry more rounds, the gun will then be lighter and 7.62 is overkill for Pakistan. We dont even need those extreme ranges. we should develop our own gun to reduce reliance on other countries. we need to start producing our own weapons so that we can be self sufficient. if we create our own weapon. we can cater it for our own needs and increase our effectiveness

Not be very sure about 5.56 !

BREAKING: US Army Releases RFI for New 7.62mm Interim Combat Service Rifle

The US Army’s Program Manager for Individual Weapons has issued a new Request for Information (RFI) to the industry for a new 7.62x51mm Interim Combat Service Rifle, which seeks to bring out the best battle rifles the market has to offer. The RFI, posted at FBO,gov, reads:

DESCRIPTION: This announcement constitutes an official Request for Information (RFI) for an Interim Combat Service Rifle (ICSR). The U.S. Army, Army Contracting Command – New Jersey at Picatinny Arsenal is conducting a market survey on behalf of Product Manager Individual Weapons to identify potential sources for a combat rifle system.
This Request For Information (RFI) is for planning purposes only and should not be construed as a Request for Proposal or as an obligation on the part of the Government to acquire any services or hardware. Your response to this RFI will be treated as information only. No entitlement to payment of direct or indirect costs or charges by the Government will arise as a result of contractor submission of responses to this announcement or Government use of such information. No funds have been authorized, appropriated, or received for this effort. The information provided may be used by the Army in developing its Acquisition Strategy, Performance Work Statement and Performance Specification. Interested parties are responsible for adequately marking proprietary or competition sensitive information contained in their response. The Government does not intend to award a contract on the basis of this RFI or to otherwise pay for the information submitted in response to same. The information provided herein is subject to change and in no way binds the Government to pursue any course of action described herein. The U.S. Government is not obligated to notify respondents of the results of this survey.

Desired Attributes of Interim Combat Service Rifle:

• The rifle must be a Commercial Off The Shelf (COTS) system readily available for purchase today. Modified or customized systems are not being considered.
• Caliber: 7.62x51mm
• Available barrel lengths, to include 16 and 20 inch barrels, without muzzle device attached.
• Muzzle device capable of or adaptable to auxiliary devices for:
— Compensation of muzzle climb
— Flash suppression
— Sound Suppression
• Fire Control: Safe, Semi-automatic, and fully automatic capable.
• All controls (e.g. selector, charging handle) are ambidextrous and operable by left and right handed users
• Capable of mounting a 1.25 inch wide military sling
• Capable of accepting or mounting the following accessories.
— Forward grip/bi-pod for the weapon
— variable power optic
• Detachable magazine with a minimum capacity of 20 rounds
• Folding or collapsing buttstock adjustable to change the overall length of the weapon
• Foldable backup iron sights calibrated/adjustable to a maximum of 600 meters range
• Weight less than 12lb unloaded and without optic
• Extended Forward Rail

Those looking to make a submission should follow the link to the FedBizOpps website for further information.

It seems that the current theory behind this switch lies with the US Army and Congress’s concern that current 5.56mm ammunition will be unable to penetrate hard ceramic body armors like the Army’s current ESAPI plates without switching to the larger 7.62mm round. While on the surface, this move seems to be logical, its legitimacy thins considerably when the situation is considered in detail. First, neither current 5.56mm nor 7.62mm ball ammunition (M855A1 and M80A1 EPRs) can penetrate ceramic armor at any combat distances, nor could any kind of hypothetical round that did not use a heavy metal. This means that for a 7.62mm rifle to be effective, it must fire not the current M80A1 round, but a tungsten-cored AP round such as M993 or the upcoming XM1158 ADVAP which almost certainly also has a tungsten core. What makes a switch to 7.62mm on this basis strange is that with tungsten-cored ammunition 5.56mm will also penetrate ceramic body armor out to 100-200 meters.

It would be incorrect to suggest that this solution in either caliber is “neat”. Rather, both are less than satisfying for a number of reasons, not the least of which is the extreme limited availability and high cost of tungsten material. Tungsten-cored ammunition is 4-5 times as expensive per round, and cannot be used in “industrial” quantities for large-scale economic war the way that normal ammunition can. Therefore, this solution – in either caliber – is problematic, and the question of what the right solution is if hard ceramic armors are expected to proliferate remains essentially unanswered, even with a 7.62mm ICSR.

All this raises the question: Is the armor issue simply an excuse for a larger-caliber infantry rifle? The suggestion that it might be draws attention to the very serious concerns I presented in my previous article about the ICSR effort. If the supposed benefits of the 7.62mm round in addressing a critical need to defeat next-generation body armor are more or less fiction, then what is so compelling about this move that a litany of major penalties to the rifleman’s effectiveness in both training and combat are deemed acceptable?

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/...-rfi-new-7-62mm-interim-combat-service-rifle/
 
Yes SCAR was the best rifle in trials:partay::partay: as per you and Horus! Hazrat it is very simple. are you a Payamber or have na'uzubillah gained Nabuwat, that we should believe you without raising questions on the info you give us?

so we cannot even dispute what you say? because you are 100% right? that is incredible garoor and takubar Hazrat:agree:
this is a seriously offensive post, i suggest u learn how to troll properly...
 
This used to be a meaningful thread :cray:

Now when life gets to me and I need a laugh this is where i find relief :rofl::P

Maybe we should change the name of this thread to SCAR was the best performing rifle in trials.
 
IMHO
For 7.62x39 they should go for AK103.
For 7.62x51 they should go for HK417
For 5.56 they should go for HK416
All of these guns should be mass produced in pakistan on basis of technology transfer
we should go fro some more modern ak rifles which russia has a long selection of

This used to be a meaningful thread :cray:

Now when life gets to me and I need a laugh this is where i find relief :rofl::P

Maybe we should change the name of this thread to SCAR was the best performing rifle in trials.
How the hell are you a 2cnd lieutenant already , I HAVE JOINED IN 2016 while you have joined in 2017
 
well 5.56 has other advantages over 7.62, it is lighter so soldiers can carry more rounds, the gun will then be lighter and 7.62 is overkill for Pakistan. We dont even need those extreme ranges. we should develop our own gun to reduce reliance on other countries. we need to start producing our own weapons so that we can be self sufficient. if we create our own weapon. we can cater it for our own needs and increase our effectiveness
5.56 have proven itself to be lacking power, it do not have that "take-out" effect that Pakistan army look for. We do not use three round burst to take down our target. 7.62 is perfectly suit our needs and that is why PA is only looking at 7.62 and 5.56 was not even considered for this new rifle procurement.

As for developing our own gun, thing to note here is that whatever gun we will purchase will come with ToT and a license to export so essentially we can get all the goods from this gun that we can get from a locally developed gun. Still as i mentioned a few months back, there still were some people, sitting in places that matter that wanted a locally developed gun but it was some 15-18 months ago (discussed in a casual meeting with someone). Will we still pursue it, i don't think so. The reason being the fact that we can get we can ask for from this G3 replacement deal.
 
5.56 have proven itself to be lacking power, it do not have that "take-out" effect that Pakistan army look for. We do not use three round burst to take down our target. 7.62 is perfectly suit our needs and that is why PA is only looking at 7.62 and 5.56 was not even considered for this new rifle procurement.

As for developing our own gun, thing to note here is that whatever gun we will purchase will come with ToT and a license to export so essentially we can get all the goods from this gun that we can get from a locally developed gun. Still as i mentioned a few months back, there still were some people, sitting in places that matter that wanted a locally developed gun but it was some 15-18 months ago (discussed in a casual meeting with someone). Will we still pursue it, i don't think so. The reason being the fact that we can get we can ask for from this G3 replacement deal.
5.56 is good enough at Urban Warfare and also to equip Police and 7.62 X 51 is great as Battle ammo. Also big prove is SSG has shifted to 5.56 from 7.62 X 39
 
5.56 remains in SSG arsenal for special purpose and a particular environment. Mostly with ATUs like Zarrar. Other guns including type 56 and G3 and AUG still serve with SSG. And again that is due to special purposes and mission requirements.
 
5.56 remains in SSG arsenal for special purpose and a particular environment. Mostly with ATUs like Zarrar. Other guns including type 56 and G3 and AUG still serve with SSG. And again that is due to special purposes and mission requirements.
I have never seen SSG with G3. Type 56 was being used by SSG but than M4 arrived and now if you see all modern pictures of SSG taken in past one to two years you won't see any of them carrying Type 56. @DESERT FIGHTER can verify that as for AUG I really trying to remember where I saw SSG last time using that but may be some of them are in USE with SSGN. Although as for specially forces I think they should not have a standard weapon instead trained on as many Rifles as they can.
 
I have never seen SSG with G3. Type 56 was being used by SSG but than M4 arrived and now if you see all modern pictures of SSG taken in past one to two years you won't see any of them carrying Type 56. @DESERT FIGHTER can verify that as for AUG I really trying to remember where I saw SSG last time using that but may be some of them are in USE with SSGN. Although as for specially forces I think they should not have a standard weapon instead trained on as many Rifles as they can.
SSG doesn't use G-3s.

Whatever Type-56s they had have been phased out... (even before that they had limited type-56... mostly Russian and Bulgarian M series).

AUGs are in wide use.. even police has em..
 
SSG doesn't use G-3s.

Whatever Type-56s they had have been phased out... (even before that they had limited type-56... mostly Russian and Bulgarian M series).

AUGs are in wide use.. even police has em..

Do u mean police police??? Or SWAT??
 
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