Pakistan's Service Rifle (G-3, Type-56) Replacement Competition 2016.

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Argentina's Fabricas Militares licensed to manufacture Beretta ARX-200, PX4 weapons

Gabriel Porfilio, Orlando - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly
12 December 2016

Argentina's Fabricas Militares has signed an agreement with Italian weapon manufacturer Beretta to locally produce the ARX-200 automatic rifle and the PX4 pistol, Argentine Defence Ministry Secretary of Science, Technology, and Production Hector Lostri announced on 9 December.

The local company is in the process of being certified by its Italian counterpart to start production. It is expected that these weapons will primarily be manufactured to replace the ageing FAL and Browning GP-35s that were also locally produced decades ago.

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Argentina's Fabricas Militares licensed to manufacture Beretta ARX-200, PX4 weapons | IHS Jane's 360

Wicked x ∞. more nails in da coffin for FN Herstal Hazrat @Zarvan

Bren not only have a terrific product, but their willingness to compromise on price and production has given them the edge.

FN were the leaders but price and excessive "rule" on licence production messed them up.

Bren if they win the tender are also promising long term relationship in upgrades and new systems.

one question can we start celebrating the defeat of FN? Argentina can produce it then we can produce ARX200 as well!

 

[El Fuego]

 

[Wolfhound]

I'm sure Pak spends more money on troops (individually) than NATO members like Denmark,Estonia,Belgium or Germany,Turkey ...All of which STILL are using MG3!

As for the upgrades .. Not exactly rocket science which can't be find by POF which already has introduced one.

Of course some of them are still using the MG3, usually things such as small arms induction take years to complete don't they? Well i can agree about a local MG3 upgrade by POF but looking at its track history namely the G3M upgrade, it wont reduce weight much as POF has very little experience with polymer manufacturing, so we shouldn't hope for much from it.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Of course some of them are still using the MG3, usually things such as small arms induction take years to complete don't they? Well i can agree about a local MG3 upgrade by POF but looking at its track history namely the G3M upgrade, it wont reduce weight much as POF has very little experience with polymer manufacturing, so we shouldn't hope for much from it.

Don't fix or change it if it's not broke .... And buying minis for almost 1 million man military isn't really cheap... It would cost as much if not more than assault/battle rifles...

MG3 is doing fine and there are no plans to change it... Not even close it will continue to serve till some time.


As for upgrades... Not really POF actually is producing several G3 variants ... G3M,G3S etc .. With reduced recoil,reduced length and weight...

 

[S.U.R.B.]

Off topic...
Now that the MG3 has hijacked this thread, who can resist that fire power.

That shoulder must have required a massage afterwards due to that killer Buttstock.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Off topic...
Now that the MG3 has hijacked this thread, who can resist that fire power.

That shoulder must have required a massage afterwards due to that killer Buttstock.

Good reason MG3 is given to "tagray larkay".

 

[S.U.R.B.]

The assault category (7.62×51mm) can wait.Our current Urban warfare theater required an urgent attention especially for the types of missions PA has to undertake or the challenges they are facing currently.CZ is a very good choice for that, plus it's economical in the group.A major upgrade.There are already enough options available at home for the sniping activity as well.Nothing stops here, if the 807 could not do well with the heavy caliber ,the CZ guys can take all the time they need for a DMR in future to manufacture an assault variant.Military is not running out of time.

 

[Zarvan]

Wicked x ∞. more nails in da coffin for FN Herstal Hazrat @Zarvan


one question can we start celebrating the defeat of FN? Argentina can produce it then we can produce ARX200 as well!

FN is in for replacement for G3. BREN is not in the game for G3 replacement. No BREN 7.62 X 51 version exists. For G3 replacement talks are taking place with SCAR and Berreta How many times I have to tell you that.

The assault category (7.62×51mm) can wait.Our current Urban warfare theater required an urgent attention especially for the types of missions PA has to undertake or the challenges they are facing currently.CZ is a very good choice for that, plus it's economical in the group.A major upgrade.There are already enough options available at home for the sniping activity as well.Nothing stops here, if the 807 could not do well with the heavy caliber ,the CZ guys can take all the time they need for a DMR in future to manufacture an assault variant.Military is not running out of time.

IT can't wait we have our eastern enemy is also now increasing tensions and attacking us on daily bases so now we have to move fast and get 7.62 x 51 now because it future price can increase further.

 

[Awan68]

not indulging as such but we all want to know what rifle will be selected for G3 replacement!


done Hazrat @Zarvan[/QUOTE

FN is in for replacement for G3. BREN is not in the game for G3 replacement. No BREN 7.62 X 51 version exists. For G3 replacement talks are taking place with SCAR and Berreta How many times I have to tell you that.


IT can't wait we have our eastern enemy is also now increasing tensions and attacking us on daily bases so now we have to move fast and get 7.62 x 51 now because it future price can increase further.

Those attacks etc were political, india doesnt have the guts to attack pakistan mark my words, they will do thier utmost best to make us strike the first blow, with trump in office this becomes even more of a fantasy as he is bent on minimizing Us badmashi...

 

[Zarvan]

 

[TheDarkKnight]

FN is in for replacement for G3. BREN is not in the game for G3 replacement. No BREN 7.62 X 51 version exists. For G3 replacement talks are taking place with SCAR and Berreta How many times I have to tell you that.


IT can't wait we have our eastern enemy is also now increasing tensions and attacking us on daily bases so now we have to move fast and get 7.62 x 51 now because it future price can increase further.

Honestly if we have to invest on the defenses for eastern side, the money in the short-mid term would be better spent on: artillery (esp SP howitzers; I think PA is evaluating a serbian and south african platform), APCs/IFVs (needed for WOT as well), tanks, Air defense & 4th/5th gen aircraft; oh and lets not forget Navy as well

In the LOC sector, where most of skirmishes are taking place these days, I would recommend upgrades for light artillery (especially after IA going for M777), tactical drones and surveillance upgrades (to counter any so called Sir gi Kal! strikes), attack & transport helicopters (useful for WOT as well).

If we want to worry about soldier equipment on LOC my order would then be: NVGs, better sights, sniper rifles, heavy support weapons (such as missile launchers, ATGMs etc). I dont know if G3 is extensively used on LOC? I think AK and Type 56 are mainly used, so the current Bren acquisition would be useful on the LOC front if my assumption is correct.

I think PAs plan is to replace G3 in the next decade, so a couple additional years to work with CZ to develop a new 7.62X51 variant of Bren shouldnt hurt that much. Know the PA, and especially Pakistani mentallity, hadion ki khaal tak udher daiti hai hamari koom ; refer F7s, mirages, old navy frigates still in use for decades after they normally should be replaced.

Bhai kiyamat to nahi aa rahi? No SCAR pic??
Regards

 

[Zarvan]

Honestly if we have to invest on the defenses for eastern side, the money in the short-mid term would be better spent on: artillery (esp SP howitzers; I think PA is evaluating a serbian and south african platform), APCs/IFVs (needed for WOT as well), tanks, Air defense & 4th/5th gen aircraft; oh and lets not forget Navy as well

In the LOC sector, where most of skirmishes are taking place these days, I would recommend upgrades for light artillery (especially after IA going for M777), tactical drones and surveillance upgrades (to counter any so called Sir gi Kal! strikes), attack & transport helicopters (useful for WOT as well).

If we want to worry about soldier equipment on LOC my order would then be: NVGs, better sights, sniper rifles, heavy support weapons (such as missile launchers, ATGMs etc). I dont know if G3 is extensively used on LOC? I think AK and Type 56 are mainly used, so the current Bren acquisition would be useful on the LOC front if my assumption is correct.

I think PAs plan is to replace G3 in the next decade, so a couple additional years to work with CZ to develop a new 7.62X51 variant of Bren shouldnt hurt that much. Know the PA, and especially Pakistani mentallity, hadion ki khaal tak udher daiti hai hamari koom ; refer F7s, mirages, old navy frigates still in use for decades after they normally should be replaced.

Regards

If we would select a rifle today and start its production in next one year than and only than we would manage to replace all G3 in next one decade so there is no time to wait for 7.62 X 51 version of BREN to come up nobody knows How long will it take and no idea if it would meet our standards or not. Just like we didn't waited for SCAR to fully develop its 7.62 X 39 version. I am pretty sure that SCAR H or Berreta ARX 200 one of them would come for G3 replacement and we may hear something about it in next 1 or 2 months. @TheDarkKnight

 

[Samee Ulhaq]

its a cannon..

 

[Ghazwa e Hind]

What about that Turkish rifle? There was a bunch of news about that recently.

That was an unofficial news with unreliable sources.

 

[niaz]

Honestly if we have to invest on the defenses for eastern side, the money in the short-mid term would be better spent on: artillery (esp SP howitzers; I think PA is evaluating a serbian and south african platform), APCs/IFVs (needed for WOT as well), tanks, Air defense & 4th/5th gen aircraft; oh and lets not forget Navy as well

In the LOC sector, where most of skirmishes are taking place these days, I would recommend upgrades for light artillery (especially after IA going for M777), tactical drones and surveillance upgrades (to counter any so called Sir gi Kal! strikes), attack & transport helicopters (useful for WOT as well).

If we want to worry about soldier equipment on LOC my order would then be: NVGs, better sights, sniper rifles, heavy support weapons (such as missile launchers, ATGMs etc). I dont know if G3 is extensively used on LOC? I think AK and Type 56 are mainly used, so the current Bren acquisition would be useful on the LOC front if my assumption is correct.

I think PAs plan is to replace G3 in the next decade, so a couple additional years to work with CZ to develop a new 7.62X51 variant of Bren shouldnt hurt that much. Know the PA, and especially Pakistani mentallity, hadion ki khaal tak udher daiti hai hamari koom ; refer F7s, mirages, old navy frigates still in use for decades after they normally should be replaced.

(especially light ones after IA going for M777)



Bhai kiyamat to nahi aa rahi? No SCAR pic??
Regards

Most of the assault rifles of the last 50 years such as HKG3,G38 & 416, AK-47/ 74 / 103, AR-16/18, M- 14/M16, Steyr Aug, Galil, SIG 550, HK416, FN FAL and FN Scar are not that much better than each other. Of course newer rifles are lighter & with less kick, one can carry more of the new 0.556 less lethal round but can one honestly say that a soldier carrying FN Scar will be victor against the enemy carrying G-3 or Galil or even the ubiquitous AK-47.

The answer is surely ‘No’ as there are too many variables involved in here. No one rifle or a specific type of ammo can be said to be superior with certainty

Let’s us examine the experience of real combat situations. During the long Vietnam war, Vietcong guerrilla equipped largely with the AK-47 (Chinese type 56) assault rifle successfully fought with US troops carrying M-14 & M-16. Same thing happened in Somalia and now happening in Afghanistan. In the Falklands, both the British as well as Argentinian infantry were using FN FAL rifle. You can’t really say that success of Pak Army in the Zarbe Azb is due to the G-3 being superior to Taliban’s Kalashnikovs.

The above long winded preamble is not meant to belittle the need for replacement of the aging G3 rifle. Every Pakistani would like their soldiers to have the best assault rifle in the world. My point is simply to stress that Hon TheDarkKnight is correct is his assertion the limited resources available to Pak Army may provide more bang for the buck if other urgently needed equipment such artillery is given priority.

Finally, whichever way one looks at it; it appears that small arms, especially the assault rifle, design reached its peak during the decades of cold war era and therefore it is not easy to choose one over the other. Besides, a new assault rifle will be in service for the next 30 to 40 years and I am glad the Pak Army experts are taking their time to make up their mind.