Pakistan's 'secret' war in Baluchistan

[Abu Zolfiqar]

a Ferrari needs high octane fuel to run effectively

these terrorists need fuel to add to the fire of their fiery, hatred-inciting speeches

what better way than to tickle the emotions and claim they are the ones being targetted. The hunter only becomes the hunted when he chose to hunt against his own.


Look at Turkey. They shut down political groups that voice dissent or sympathize with PKK militia (e.g. the DTP party)

In Pakistan, these BNP type groups operate freely they are even having senators representing Pakistan while at same time they admit to being ''nationalists''


Pakistan should be commended for this.........


bottom line is


a.) major political re-structuring needs to be done; development of Baluchistan should be done on war-footing....tax payer money (however miniscule it is) as well as donation through some kind of national campaign administered by Baluch and fed govt should be in place to promote social and economic development of the province

small population with resource-endowed lands --Baluchistan should be most prospereous Province; mentality change is required on both sides


b.) seperatists, militants, smugglers or those who associate with all 3 should face harsh sanctions......doesnt matter who they are or how big their account is


c.) certain troubelsome nearby country(s) found misbehaving or engaging in rascal behaviour should be very much 'answerable' to their actions

d.) media should also learn to play a constructive role; highlight good developments also, many of which take place that go un-reported rather than always focusing on negative things




people in general -- should come up with solutions....if they can only add to the problems, they should buzz off

 

[ajtr]

Baloch leaders being eliminated, EU chief told​

QUETTA: The president of the Balochistan National Party (BNP), Sardar Akhtar Mengal, is reported to have called on the head of the European Union in Brussels, Belgium, on Sunday and apprised him about the alleged military operation in Balochistan and also about “issues like missing persons, systematic elimination of Baloch political leaders and activists and violation of human rights at the hand of government functionaries”.
According to the BNP’s information secretary, Mengal produced a memorandum which he is reported to have already sent to the Secretary-General of United Nations, Ban Ki-moon. In the letter, Mengal accused security forces and secret agencies of carrying out targeted killings of Baloch political activists.
He said that corpses of executed missing persons are regularly being found, adding that the issue of missing persons is still awaiting proper attention.
During the meeting, the Baloch nationalist leader is said to have informed the EU chief about the deteriorating situation in Balochistan.
“Baloch political opponent are being brutally tortured in illegal torture cells and later their corpses are thrown in desolate places across Balochistan,” he told the EU chief, adding that “such incidents have become a matter of routine” and can no longer be tolerated.
Criticising the non-existence of law and constitution in Balochistan, he said Baloch political workers and students were systematically being killed and picked up in public places and all state institutions and organs “are endorsing the action by remaining silent”.
He said that it was his party’s “prime duty to highlight critical issues” confronting Balochistan to make international humanitarian organisations, the UN, EU and the world community aware of the brutal attitude of security forces against the Baloch people.
Sardar Mengal informed the EU chief that the BNP “will not remain silent on excesses” being committed against the Baloch people.

 

[foxbat]

Well leaving IOK I do agree with you.

See, I am not trying to prove the validity of that reponse in J&K. You call it invalid and thats your view. However from an Indian state's perspective, its exactly the same situation as in Balochistan for Pakistan - A bunch of separatists demanding a separate country.

Anyway, lets leave it as this good thread will unnecessary become a slinging match...

 

[Areesh]

See, I am not trying to prove the validity of that reponse in J&K. You call it invalid and thats your view. However from an Indian state's perspective, its exactly the same situation as in Balochistan for Pakistan - A bunch of separatists demanding a separate country.

Anyway, lets leave it as this good thread will unnecessary become a slinging match...

It's the history dear it's the history which separates IOK from Balochistan. That is why I won't mind with whatever GOI do in it's own territory excluding IOK since it isn't India's territory. And you shouldn't be concern about Balochistan since this is our territory no matter what some bhagoras say.

A better analogy of Baluchistan would be with Assam or Punjab than IOK.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Kashmir issue has nothing to do with Baluchistan issue and Baluchistan issue has nothing to do with Kashmir issue.....

lets leave it at that, it will keep this thread much more clean

 

[foxbat]

It's the history dear it's the history which separates IOK from Balochistan. That is why I won't mind with whatever GOI do in it's own territory excluding IOK since it isn't India's territory. And you shouldn't be concern about Balochistan since this is our territory no matter what some bhagoras say.

A better analogy of Baluchistan would be with Assam or Punjab than IOK.

I dont debate that history is different, but I am talking about the present and Indian response, which you may feel is unjustified. And it really doesnt matter who outside of Indian borders thinks what. From an Indian stand point, Kashmir issue is very similar to the Punjab problem of past and Balochistan (Pakistan) problem of present.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

i would then go on and proceed to question the wisdom, or lackthereof, of the standard indian standpoint

 

[foxbat]

i would then go on and proceed to question the wisdom, or lackthereof, of the standard indian standpoint

You are well within your rights to question that wisdom, or lackthereof, however dont hold your breath waiting for a response..

As I said, it really doesnt matter what anyone outside of India thinks about that standpoint.

Just like folks in India questioning the alleged Pakistani standpoint of using insurgency as an instrument of state policy doesnt matter to Pakistan

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

fair enough....but i'll just be straight forward and non-verbose here:

an analogy




Pakistan : india

AS

Baluchistan: Assam/Nagaland



however......



Kashmir: Kashmir

as


Kashmir: Kashmir


until the UNRESOLVED issue is RESOLVED and it is no longer DISPUTED




hope it helped somewhat

 

[foxbat]

fair enough....but i'll just be straight forward and non-verbose here:

an analogy




Pakistan : india

AS

Baluchistan: Assam/Nagaland



however......



Kashmir: Kashmir

as


Kashmir: Kashmir


until the UNRESOLVED issue is RESOLVED and it is no longer DISPUTED




hope it helped somewhat

See, I dont want to go into the whole hoobala about disputed status and why Kashmir is unique as seen by Pakistan. All that has been discussed to death in more than half the threads on this forum (didnt accomplish much though)

My only point here is the similarity between Kashmir (for India) and Balochistan (for Pakistan) from a current separatist problem perspective.. Net, in both situations, a set of people in the given area are using a mix of political means and violence to force secession. Every thing else around it, whether its a defunct UN resolution or Afghan consulates or ISI are just bells and wistles..

Assam/Punjab/Sindh etc are all in the past and hence are not relevant in the current context.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Just like folks in India questioning the alleged Pakistani standpoint of using insurgency as an instrument of state policy doesnt matter to Pakistan

well you are blaming Pakistan for is exatly India did in east Pakistan,has been doing in Balochistan and even Karachi. sadly the neighbours are not best of freinds and it seems this tit for tat goes on like a vicious circle and the public on both sides suffers.

please try to not to be cynical in every single post. its very rare to see the converstaion with doesnt have venom in the responses.

as far as Indian stand point is concerned regarding Balochistan. I must advise that India should stop wasting its taxpayers money on a buch of Bughti and mangal sardars who have had a violent history even before partition.

the so called leaders of BLA are an obnoxious lot who have their opponents burried alive as a tradition.
they have never allowed infrastructre built in their area of influence because that way they loose control of their people and use the misery of the people as an excuse.

but rest assured they are exposed and isolated. tens of thousands of Baloch have been forced to migrate in other cities on one side and on the other thousands are now joining the security forces to rid themselves of their stanglehold.

it is heartening to see India being concerned for Balochistan because our president is ethnically a Baloch and so is our chief justice. so hopefully out of respect of these two personalities India would stop its terrorist support.

after all worlds biggest democracy has to lead by example doesnt it?

 

[foxbat]

well you are blaming Pakistan for is exatly India did in east Pakistan,has been doing in Balochistan and even Karachi. sadly the neighbours are not best of freinds and it seems this tit for tat goes on like a vicious circle and the public on both sides suffers.

please try to not to be cynical in every single post. its very rare to see the converstaion with doesnt have venom in the responses.

as far as Indian stand point is concerned regarding Balochistan. I must advise that India should stop wasting its taxpayers money on a buch of Bughti and mangal sardars who have had a violent history even before partition.

the so called leaders of BLA are an obnoxious lot who have their opponents burried alive as a tradition.
they have never allowed infrastructre built in their area of influence because that way they loose control of their people and use the misery of the people as an excuse.

but rest assured they are exposed and isolated. tens of thousands of Baloch have been forced to migrate in other cities on one side and on the other thousands are now joining the security forces to rid themselves of their stanglehold.

it is heartening to see India being concerned for Balochistan because our president is ethnically a Baloch and so is our chief justice. so hopefully out of respect of these two personalities India would stop its terrorist support.

after all worlds biggest democracy has to lead by example doesnt it?

I think you misunderstood my post, specially the part you have quoted. My intent here was to say that just like what Indians say about Pakistan's affinity towards extremist elements like Taliban etc, does not matter to Pakistan in light of its national interests, the same is true with India. It does not matter to GoI whatever noises Pakistan Govt or for that matter any other govt (though no one does now) makes on Kashmir in front of India's national interest.

Abount Balochistan, the only thought I have is that from a trouble perspective, its very similar to Kashmir as both are separatist situations, though the Balochistan issue has been simmering for a bit longer than Kashmir and is a little more violent these days. And the other big similarity in both situations is that both of them are not going anywhere.

 

[Areesh]

I dont debate that history is different, but I am talking about the present and Indian response, which you may feel is unjustified. And it really doesnt matter who outside of Indian borders thinks what. From an Indian stand point, Kashmir issue is very similar to the Punjab problem of past and Balochistan (Pakistan) problem of present.

You shouldn't debate that the history is different because that's obvious, And this isn't about the Indian point of view, India would be ready to compare situation in IOK with Baluchistan, Xinjiang region or even Tamil movement in Srilanka and literally every undisputed territory of this world but the fact is this comparison of disputed with undisputed doesn't make the undisputed disputed or disputed undisputed. Once the IOK issue would be resolve this comparison from Indian point of view makes sense.

Indian point of view won't compare IOK with Palestine which is obvious even though that would be a better analogy in the terms of history and dispute.

 

[RabzonKhan]

COMMENT: Baloch nationalism

Daily Times
Shahid Saeed
November 24, 2010

Every once in a while, journalists and columnists flown to Quetta and given a briefing in the fortified garrison try to tell us how to deal with Balochistan. More than often, these are establishment apologist narratives that forget the injustices committed towards the people of the most underdeveloped yet resource-rich province of the country, absolve the state of all crimes in Balochistan and carve monsters out of Baloch tribal sardars as they are blamed for all that was and is wrong in the province. Misguided narratives that are obsessed with the feudalism/sardari system and try to blame them for all ills are criminal as they altogether ignore and deliberately forget the historical treatment of the Baloch people, both economic and political.

The voice of the people of Balochistan has largely been muted by the media when it comes to addressing the various problems that afflict the province. The lack of availability of a forum that can address all issues is troubling since parliament has negligible say when it comes to the issue of military operations in Balochistan. Since 1947, waves of resistance in the province have been answered solely by using military might and alienating the people of the province.

A case that epitomises the tyranny of military governance and has become an often told tale of oppression is that of Hameed Baloch, a native of Kunchiti, Kech District, who was arrested on December 9, 1979 on charges of attempted murder of one Colonel Khulfah Nasir, a recruiting officer of the Royal Oman Army (they recruited from the Makranis in large numbers). Later on, it was alleged that although the shots missed, they had accidentally killed one Ghulam Rasool. Although the Pakistan Penal Code (PPC) covered these crimes, Hameed was tried by a military court headed by a Lietenant Colonel Ikram Nabi. The prosecution alleged that he was a member of the left wing BSO (Baloch Students Organisation) and he had tried to murder the Omani Colonel in order to show his and BSO’s support for the Dhofari rebels that the Omani army was fighting in a civil war. The defence maintained that Hameed was in Turbat for prospective recruitment but never tried to kill Colonel Nasir. Seven government witnesses testified corroborating the prosecution’s case and then suddenly the name of the alleged victim in the charge sheet was changed from Ghulam Rasool to Abdur Razzaq. The defence rightly argued that this procedure was completely unacceptable and did not amount to a fair trial. The military tribunal rejected the plea for dismissal of charges and also rejected the defence plea to recall the seven witnesses who had earlier testified that Hameed had killed Ghulam Rasool. Somehow the defence produced the father of the allegedly dead Abdul Razzaq, who testified that his son was alive. Colonel Nabi changed the charge sheet again to state that the victim was Ghulam Rasool, not Abdul Razzaq. Arguing that the charge sheet was being changed time and again and since the identity of the deceased could not be established, the defence pleaded for the case to be dismissed. The military tribunal did not budge, proceeded with the sham trial, convicted Hameed Baloch of murder and sentenced him to death. In Abdul Hamid vs President Special Military Court 4 (Const Petition 304/1980), it was petitioned that since the defence had never permitted the charge sheet to be amended, Hameed had been convicted of murdering a person who was alive and that since half of the prosecution witnesses had testified that Hameed had murdered Ghulam Rasool and another half had testified that he had murdered Abdul Razzaq, procedural violations of this order necessitated quashing of the sentence.

Meanwhile, President’s Order No 21 of 1979 added Article 212-A to the Constitution barring the High Courts from granting any injunction or passing any order related to the jurisdiction or proceedings of a military tribunal. The military governor of the province, Lieutenant General Rahimuddin Khan, on October 24, 1979 said that punishments, including death sentences, handed out by military courts would be carried out. The next day, lawyers of the condemned prisoners appealed before the Balochistan High Court and a stay order issued by Chief Justice Mir Khuda Baksh Marri prohibited prison authorities from carrying out sentences until the issue had been resolved in the court. The jail officials, realising that any actions against the stay order would be illegal and in contempt of court, and executions would amount to pre-meditated murder, notified the martial law authorities that they would not carry out the executions. The Balochistan High Court was meanwhile dealing with matters of constitutional importance and the case lingered on, without any provision of justice to Hameed. PCO 1981 was introduced and things started to settle down in a military government. On June 11, 1981, Hameed Baloch was hanged in Mach Jail by the military authorities. A famous “last testament and will” written by him a day before his hanging has become a famous part of Baloch nationalist literature.

The use of force to quell secessionist movements and the blood of the departed unites the people and unity was what Hameed Baloch wrote about as well. Case in point being Nawab Akbar Bugti, who even though vilified by many a Baloch nationalist and seen as an oppressive tribal chief earlier, hunting him down in a cave, killing him and then burying him in a bolted coffin created a martyr out of him. The hundreds, if not thousands, of Baloch who are “missing” are testament to the way the state is dealing with the question of Baloch nationalism. On Eid, another six of these ‘missing persons’ were found executed. Baloch nationalism has moved on beyond the sardars now. Many of the chieftains are labelled as establishment stooges by rebels and people like Allah Nazar Baloch have emerged. Step-brotherly treatment continues with the people of Balochistan. Political problems require well thought out political solutions. A federal party like the PPP should not relinquish its role in seeking reconciliation with estranged Baloch leaders and extend a hand to all Baloch rebels too.

Baloch nationalists need to understand that an independent Balochistan is geo-politically impossible. A hostile Iran has maintained an iron grip over its Baloch population and in this international scenario, independence is an unimaginable dream. It is time that Baloch nationalists deal with issues rationally, come back to the negotiating table and settle all issues peacefully. The government needs to realise the historical mistakes and injustices and what is at stake here too. Military might and force have failed more than once in Balochistan and it is not going to work this time either.

The solution to the question of Baloch nationalism necessitates thinking outside the box of elite politicking and making one group/tribe fight against another. It requires extending an olive branch to the rebels, engaging the Baloch public, meeting their demands of reducing the omnipresence of the FC and not making decisions arbitrarily about their fate in Islamabad without consulting them. The disregard for the will of the people of Balochistan must end.

Tailpiece: The independent online Baloch newspaper, The Baloch Hal, has been banned by the Pakistan Telecommunication Authority (PTA) much like other Baloch newspapers whose offices were earlier closed by the state. Muting any rational voice that sought reconciliation between nationalists and the state is senseless. While Baloch websites are constantly banned, the ones maintained by terrorist organisations are open for the people of Pakistan to see. Sipah-e-Sahaba Pakistan (SSP) continues to spread anti-Shia literature online too.

 

[foxbat]

You shouldn't debate that the history is different because that's obvious, And this isn't about the Indian point of view, India would be ready to compare situation in IOK with Baluchistan, Xinjiang region or even Tamil movement in Srilanka and literally every undisputed territory of this world but the fact is this comparison of disputed with undisputed doesn't make the undisputed disputed or disputed undisputed. Once the IOK issue would be resolve this comparison from Indian point of view makes sense.

Indian point of view won't compare IOK with Palestine which is obvious even though that would be a better analogy in the terms of history and dispute.

It doesnt matter what you compare Kashmir with. You can always find similarities and dissimilarities and one would pick and chose depending on what POV one wants to pursue. However as I said before, it really doesnt matter what anyone outside of India thinks about it since it has no effect on GoI's response to the situation in J&K and P OK.

And if you are hoping for a resolution that alters any borders, well, as I said before, dont hold your breath..