Pakistan's Own BVRAAM under Project Azm.

[Indos]

Nice. We finished Bozdoğan WVRAAM and Gökdoğan BVRAAM land tests. Soon air tests will begin.

Here is Gökdoğan BVRAAM

Hope Pakistan will finish the project succesfully.

Very good development. Nice to hear that bro. Is it developed by Rocketsan ?

 

[denel]

Waste of resources

buy from China

explain? It is this exact mindset that prevents self sufficiency in establishing R&D.

If this Covid pandemic is a good casing point, self-reliance is a must across all sectors.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Missiles have limited flight hours afterwards they get disposed or need to be overhauled. Making a indigenous AA missile system would give PAF self reliance in this field and give it a platform for use in local made SAM units.

Judging how India who had delays because they were reinventing the wheel as always and looking at Turkish approach who's designs are similar to Aim-9 and Aim-120. Would make sense Pakistan works on local variant of a Chinese/South African system via TOT. We have the advantage that both these countries will provide unrestricted access and willing to share the tech. for eg Raad CMs use tech inputs like the wings and tail from H-2/4 systems and perhaps even Raptor 3.

I believe for WVR as has been discussed alot here A-Dartar variant looks attractive and for BVR can look at something in bw PL-12 and PL-15. Wont be surprised if we are already making SD-10s unadvertised as we have the same missile in SAM configuration too.

Infact my own opinion is PL-10 has similarity with A-Darter and Pakistan could have been the bridge between both sides.

With BVRAAM and SR-SAM (15-25 km), the issue isn't the make/model of the missile per se, but whether Pakistan is learning how to make dual-pulse rockets indigenously.

There's a lot to learn in this area, e.g., alloys, solid fuel R&D, etc, but we can re-use that expertise in many different areas (including BM/SLV), so it's worth going into it. Besides manufacturing said missiles at home, we can also build expertise in extending the shelf lives of the missiles we already have.

But with an indigenous BVRAAM/SAM project, the first step could be to refresh or replace old or expired SD-10 and Aspide stocks with a local product. The next step could be to design mobile SAM units for the Army (and even Navy).

 

[TsAr]

Hi,

Thank you---absolutely---how bad was this experience---that even with blue prints and all the backing---the tank diesel engine could barely produce half the horse power that it was designed to and the fighter aircraft engine could not fly the aircraft---.

A JV would have had the products running in no time and by this time with the past experience they would be building / manufacturing their own engines with the needed output---.

If you an average wealth nation---JV is a God given opportunity to establish yourself in the field of required industry---.

JV's just don't happen just like that---you really have to be fortunate to latch on to and engineering consortium already in the business---.

I am pretty sure that whatever they developing is a JV.....

 

[aziqbal]

explain? It is this exact mindset that prevents self sufficiency in establishing R&D.

If this Covid pandemic is a good casing point, self-reliance is a must across all sectors.

why would you waste time to reinvent the wheel and waste resources, there is something called practicality

should Pakistan build its own engine for JF17?
how about ASEA radar?
how about the EW suite?

No and No, Chinese spent decades and even now ASEA is not ready Pakistan can spend the entire 21st century

no there is no sense in this kind of patriotism If thats what you want to call it

should Pakistan fit its own IFR?
how about composites?
how about landing gear?

Yes and Yes, PAF has limited budget and it needs to address the important issue first

there is common sense required here, you do/do not realise how complicated a ultra long range air to air missile is?

the seeker alone would take years of draining our resources and we would be 10% of the way there and even if it mastered it the components would never be a advanced as Chinese or American we dont have the core technology and Chinese could easily stop the integration process if they changed the source codes

lets make our own satellite and our own GPS? how about core nuclear reactors and then go bankrupt?

theres being ambitious and theres having a inflated view of ourselves

certain things will benefit us if we do it ourselves others we will lose

a country like ours have limited resources we cant start dreaming of everything indigenous, rather develop what we can and buy what we cant

COVID pandemic ? Even UK bought ventilators from China and so did US, Pakistan is more developed than UK and US? again level headed thinking is needed here

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

A very good initiative!! Turkey is equipping her UAVs with BVR missiles...

 

[RadarGudumluMuhimmat]

In my opinion, the shared desire to localize the resources already available is normal, no matter how difficult. However, I have not been able to see any missile other than Anza missiles (it says that it is based on china in open sources) for Pakistan. On the basis of what the members are, there is no proper source to show that the system has been developing, but they believe that the most advanced version of these missiles will come in an instant.

A very good initiative!! Turkey is equipping her UAVs with BVR missiles...

Dude it has nothing to do with the this topic. As a Turk, I really like you to visit every subject and praise us, but it doesn't really work. Unfortunately, any member here does not have the authority to say "Wow, let's get it right now."

 

[GriffinsRule]

should Pakistan build its own engine for JF17?
how about ASEA radar?
how about the EW suite?

Yes for all three. If it can, thats another matter, that it should be the end goal

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

In my opinion, the shared desire to localize the resources already available is normal, no matter how difficult. However, I have not been able to see any missile other than Anza missiles (it says that it is based on china in open sources) for Pakistan. On the basis of what the members are, there is no proper source to show that the system has been developing, but they believe that the most advanced version of these missiles will come in an instant.



Dude it has nothing to do with the this topic. As a Turk, I really like you to visit every subject and praise us, but it doesn't really work. Unfortunately, any member here does not have the authority to say "Wow, let's get it right now."

Pak has a very effective Deep State!! And, they're the masters in hiding their assets!! If they need something badly usually they get it...

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Yes for all three. If it can, thats another matter, that it should be the end goal

The other factor is that the cost of quality equipment is going up. The AIM-120C7 is costing its customers $1-2 million US per missile. Sure, Chinese AAMs come at lower prices, but the cost of newer generation solutions likely is not as low as the older stuff. This isn't China's fault; the technology is more complex, but at the same time, let's not pretend that they're not aware of a near-monopoly over the Pakistani market either.

In the long-haul, sticking to just importing AAMs or SAMs isn't sustainable. However, folks are also correct to point out that we can't compromise urgent needs for in-house solutions. Ideally, we would maintain a balance, i.e, keep a sustained investment for indigenous solutions in the background, while meeting urgent needs with what's available.

 

[StormBreaker]

oh, the drunk anti Pakistan rant from a man who lives in the states and has achieved nothing. but he can talk like any indian

Hey,

Why is it that you always talk stupid ?
@MastanKhan is absolutely right in case this project is on SD10A level and that since most of the parts can’t be produced locally and have to be outsourced, The need for a local project is unnecessary and instead, Importing from China is the better option since the requirement is limited.

Plus, If it is is the same range of SD-10A then I would right away cancel such a project, Future of BVR is dependent on range increases and speed. Hypersonic VLRAAM are the pinnacle. But, they cost a lot too. However, is that cost justified if your rival hosts similar missile ? Definitely, So you have to aim for the highest, not taking cost into consideration.

But I have doubts over this. IMHO, PAF is doing another CH-3/Burraq type ToT to produce missiles or maybe working on better motors to increase the speed and range.

In short words, ToT of SD-10 but with local optimizations.

The other factor is that the cost of quality equipment is going up. The AIM-120C7 is costing its customers $1-2 million US per missile. Sure, Chinese AAMs come at lower prices, but the cost of newer generation solutions likely is not as low as the older stuff. This isn't China's fault; the technology is more complex, but at the same time, let's not pretend that they're not aware of a near-monopoly over the Pakistani market either.

In the long-haul, sticking to just importing AAMs or SAMs isn't sustainable. However, folks are also correct to point out that we can't compromise urgent needs for in-house solutions. Ideally, we would maintain a balance, i.e, keep a sustained investment for indigenous solutions in the background, while meeting urgent needs with what's available.

Definitely Captain.Obvious

 

[Blacklight]

Definitely Captain.Obvious

Don't be sarcastic, he is a nice knowledgeable guy. Never trolls.

 

[StormBreaker]

Don't be sarcastic, he is a nice knowledgeable guy. Never trolls.

I am appreciating him. Always says the best one can think of as a civilian or a neutral source. That is a quality in itself @Bilal Khan (Quwa)

 

[Blacklight]

This thread makes me realize, why we need non-US fighter a/c's

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Don't be sarcastic, he is a nice knowledgeable guy. Never trolls.

I am appreciating him. Always says the best one can think of as a civilian or a neutral source. That is a quality in itself @Bilal Khan (Quwa)

It's all cool. That said, the sad thing about Pakistan is that the 'obvious' isn't known to enough people. We'll never reach 100% across everything, but there are certain technologies we should master. We have some experience with ballistic missiles, so there's little reason why we can't branch into DPMRs for AAM/SAMs. The R&D gains will benefit both ends of the spectrum.