Pakistan's next generation national warships: Jinnah Class Frigates

[MIRauf]

name should be changed...... jinnah doesn`t deserve a 16 cell vls ship

IMHO it's more like place holder till Turkish VLS is revealed, still if indeed 16 cells then if quad pack then that is 16 * 4 = 64 missiles possible, ample for a 4/5K ton Frigate.

If you like close to 100 missiles then you will need to aim higher such as Type 52D or 55D, totally diff category with higher cost and not in the quantity of 6-8 like Jinnah but more like 2-4 units.

 

[syed_yusuf]

This class should also have vls for ssm and rocket torpedo system

 

[Zarvan]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1482663363943485441

Buy more Type 54 A if this is the Jinah class. Jinah class should have at least 32 VLS. Out of those 32, 16 should be for Air Defence role and 16 for carrying and firing long range land attack cruise missiles. Like 1500 KM range.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Buy more Type 54 A if this is the Jinah class. Jinah class should have at least 32 VLS. Out of those 32, 16 should be for Air Defence role and 16 for carrying and firing long range land attack cruise missiles. Like 1500 KM range.

That's not the way to think on this issue.

1/3 of the Jinnah-class frigate program is about building the PN's expertise in designing a modern warship.

1/3 is about building Pakistan's ability to manufacture these ships by using the subsystems, inputs, etc, they want. So, even though we can't make 99% of this ship domestically, we can at least work with the suppliers we want (and not the OEM's partners). This helps us lower the cost and, potentially, start getting targeted ToT in specific areas like steel or other critical inputs at an industry level. E.g., if KSEW contracts "Sindhi Society Steel" to supply the steel by buying it from a South Korean partner, then "Sindhi Society Steel" might try to produce some of that steel in Pakistan so as to increase its profits (by using local manpower, currency, etc).

1/3 is on designing an affordable platform that the PN could acquire in larger numbers. In all likelihood, the decision for the 16 VLS likely came from the PN itself. Part of the reason for just 16 stems from the CAMM-ER SAM. This is an amazing SAM, but we don't have a quad-pack VLS solution (France probably denied selling us the SYLVER). So, we're stuck with the current VLS you see there. This is what happens when we constantly import instead of developing indigenous solutions. If we had thought about developing SAMs back in the 1990s, we might have had a quad-pack VLS solution today.

I get you're trying to think in terms of capability, but you got it wrong. In fact, you're assuming the Type 054A is superior to the Jinnah-class just because of it having 32 cells, but if you spent time reading this forum you'd know the J-Class has a lot more going for it. For starters, the J-Class' SAM system -- CAMM-ER -- is in another league compared to the Type 054A's old SARH HQ-16.

 

[Scorpiooo]

jinnah class can inherit few features from Chinese tech along with major dependency on Turkish

 

[Falcon26]

By the time the first Jinnah-class FFG rolls around, Turkey's national VLS will be a thing, so we may see a VLS revision.

That said, I'm interested in seeing if the PN develops an OPV using the Babur-class or Jinnah-class.

Do you know why PN would go for a new frigate design instead of the already available Istanbul class?

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Do you know why PN would go for a new frigate design instead of the already available Istanbul class?

Likely to co-own IP.

 

[KaiserX]

That's not the way to think on this issue.

1/3 of the Jinnah-class frigate program is about building the PN's expertise in designing a modern warship.

1/3 is about building Pakistan's ability to manufacture these ships by using the subsystems, inputs, etc, they want. So, even though we can't make 99% of this ship domestically, we can at least work with the suppliers we want (and not the OEM's partners). This helps us lower the cost and, potentially, start getting targeted ToT in specific areas like steel or other critical inputs at an industry level. E.g., if KSEW contracts "Sindhi Society Steel" to supply the steel by buying it from a South Korean partner, then "Sindhi Society Steel" might try to produce some of that steel in Pakistan so as to increase its profits (by using local manpower, currency, etc).

1/3 is on designing an affordable platform that the PN could acquire in larger numbers. In all likelihood, the decision for the 16 VLS likely came from the PN itself. Part of the reason for just 16 stems from the CAMM-ER SAM. This is an amazing SAM, but we don't have a quad-pack VLS solution (France probably denied selling us the SYLVER). So, we're stuck with the current VLS you see there. This is what happens when we constantly import instead of developing indigenous solutions. If we had thought about developing SAMs back in the 1990s, we might have had a quad-pack VLS solution today.

I get you're trying to think in terms of capability, but you got it wrong. In fact, you're assuming the Type 054A is superior to the Jinnah-class just because of it having 32 cells, but if you spent time reading this forum you'd know the J-Class has a lot more going for it. For starters, the J-Class' SAM system -- CAMM-ER -- is in another league compared to the Type 054A's old SARH HQ-16.

Why not integrate the Chinese HHQ-9 or a future variant which is similar to Pakistans new HQ-9 SAMS?

I agree, it would be more worthwhile to improve the Type054P design further. Designing a ship is not that difficult. Developing the electronics/avianics/weaponery is.

So much time, energy, money would be saved by building upon/improving the Type 054P design. Lets say we increase its weightage to 5000TN and include a 40 cell VLS launch system with the HQ-9N SAMS and long range BABUR land attack cruise missiles.

I dont think our failure to develop an indiginous medium/long range SAM is a reason we should invest in a whole new platform with whole new avionics/weapons suite, especially if all our modern naval equipment is Chinese + interconnectivity with the PLAAN. The Chinese have been more than willing to accomodate indiginous pakistani weapons/systems into their products.

 

[Scorpiooo]

Why not integrate the Chinese HHQ-9 or a future variant which is similar to Pakistans new HQ-9 SAMS?

I agree, it would be more worthwhile to improve the Type054P design further. Designing a ship is not that difficult. Developing the electronics/avianics/weaponery is.

So much time, energy, money would be saved by building upon/improving the Type 054P design. Lets say we increase its weightage to 5000TN and include a 40 cell VLS launch system with the HQ-9N SAMS and long range BABUR land attack cruise missiles.

I dont think our failure to develop an indiginous medium/long range SAM is a reason we should invest in a whole new platform with whole new avionics/weapons suite, especially if all our modern naval equipment is Chinese + interconnectivity with the PLAAN. The Chinese have been more than willing to accomodate indiginous pakistani weapons/systems into their products.

We dont know may be jinnah class may have combinations of western and Chinese tech, best of both can be integrated

 

[sparten]

Do you know why PN would go for a new frigate design instead of the already available Istanbul class?

Likely to co-own IP.

Istanbul Class is designed for the narrow waters of the Med. Jinnah class will need to operate in open ocean.

 

[MH.Yang]

That's not the way to think on this issue.

1/3 of the Jinnah-class frigate program is about building the PN's expertise in designing a modern warship.

1/3 is about building Pakistan's ability to manufacture these ships by using the subsystems, inputs, etc, they want. So, even though we can't make 99% of this ship domestically, we can at least work with the suppliers we want (and not the OEM's partners). This helps us lower the cost and, potentially, start getting targeted ToT in specific areas like steel or other critical inputs at an industry level. E.g., if KSEW contracts "Sindhi Society Steel" to supply the steel by buying it from a South Korean partner, then "Sindhi Society Steel" might try to produce some of that steel in Pakistan so as to increase its profits (by using local manpower, currency, etc).

1/3 is on designing an affordable platform that the PN could acquire in larger numbers. In all likelihood, the decision for the 16 VLS likely came from the PN itself. Part of the reason for just 16 stems from the CAMM-ER SAM. This is an amazing SAM, but we don't have a quad-pack VLS solution (France probably denied selling us the SYLVER). So, we're stuck with the current VLS you see there. This is what happens when we constantly import instead of developing indigenous solutions. If we had thought about developing SAMs back in the 1990s, we might have had a quad-pack VLS solution today.

I get you're trying to think in terms of capability, but you got it wrong. In fact, you're assuming the Type 054A is superior to the Jinnah-class just because of it having 32 cells, but if you spent time reading this forum you'd know the J-Class has a lot more going for it. For starters, the J-Class' SAM system -- CAMM-ER -- is in another league compared to the Type 054A's old SARH HQ-16.

Considering the purchase price of 054A for Pakistan, the total price of three 054A and supporting helicopters is 750 million US dollars. I don't know how Turkey can lower its costs.

BTW: India's Kolkata class destroyers cost US $4.76 billion, one Kolkata equivalent to nineteen 054A.


052D costs 3.5 billion CNY ($550 million). The cost of 055 is 6 billion CNY (940 million US dollars).
What if the cost of Jinnah class is higher than the quotation of 052D&055?

 

[khansaheeb]

I like the modernization drive, laykin paisay kahan se arahay hein?

Teri jaib sey.

 

[MH.Yang]

Why not integrate the Chinese HHQ-9 or a future variant which is similar to Pakistans new HQ-9 SAMS?

I agree, it would be more worthwhile to improve the Type054P design further. Designing a ship is not that difficult. Developing the electronics/avianics/weaponery is.

So much time, energy, money would be saved by building upon/improving the Type 054P design. Lets say we increase its weightage to 5000TN and include a 40 cell VLS launch system with the HQ-9N SAMS and long range BABUR land attack cruise missiles.

I dont think our failure to develop an indiginous medium/long range SAM is a reason we should invest in a whole new platform with whole new avionics/weapons suite, especially if all our modern naval equipment is Chinese + interconnectivity with the PLAAN. The Chinese have been more than willing to accomodate indiginous pakistani weapons/systems into their products.

I suggest Pakistan to wait patiently for 054B. Chinese Internet Rumors:
1, 054B is slightly better than FFGX.
2, 6000+ ton, 32 VLS.
3, Composite diesel electric/gas power system.
4, The speed is greater than 30 knots.
5, HHQ26 + DK10A.
6, New phased array radar.

 

[mudas777]

That's not the way to think on this issue.

1/3 of the Jinnah-class frigate program is about building the PN's expertise in designing a modern warship.

1/3 is about building Pakistan's ability to manufacture these ships by using the subsystems, inputs, etc, they want. So, even though we can't make 99% of this ship domestically, we can at least work with the suppliers we want (and not the OEM's partners). This helps us lower the cost and, potentially, start getting targeted ToT in specific areas like steel or other critical inputs at an industry level. E.g., if KSEW contracts "Sindhi Society Steel" to supply the steel by buying it from a South Korean partner, then "Sindhi Society Steel" might try to produce some of that steel in Pakistan so as to increase its profits (by using local manpower, currency, etc).

1/3 is on designing an affordable platform that the PN could acquire in larger numbers. In all likelihood, the decision for the 16 VLS likely came from the PN itself. Part of the reason for just 16 stems from the CAMM-ER SAM. This is an amazing SAM, but we don't have a quad-pack VLS solution (France probably denied selling us the SYLVER). So, we're stuck with the current VLS you see there. This is what happens when we constantly import instead of developing indigenous solutions. If we had thought about developing SAMs back in the 1990s, we might have had a quad-pack VLS solution today.

I get you're trying to think in terms of capability, but you got it wrong. In fact, you're assuming the Type 054A is superior to the Jinnah-class just because of it having 32 cells, but if you spent time reading this forum you'd know the J-Class has a lot more going for it. For starters, the J-Class' SAM system -- CAMM-ER -- is in another league compared to the Type 054A's old SARH HQ-16.

Pakistan should make 32 cell Vertical launch system as a minimum standard considering its meant to be a frigate not a corvette. PN have to compete with much larger enemy in the open seas, need more fire power and stretching the size of the ship a bit more to accommodate 32 cells are minimal.

 

[ARMalik]

Get 4 x more Type 054's for F* sake !! No one can match the speed and the quality of Chinese. The Chinese have given an advance warship 054 to PN which has created equilibrium in the indian Ocean.