Pakistan's New Submarines - China's Auxiliary Nuclear Power Plant - A Third Way Forward?

[Thorough Pro]

Vast

Bottom line oceans are waste and deep and there is no sensor which can cover it and finding one is finding a needle in a hey stack, predict and search also noise due to high traffic at seas

rest see the video

on personal note sent million and billions $worth of sensors to track xxx but still got attacked, could minimize threat but not eliminate

 

[khanasifm]

https://m.usni.org/magazines/proceedings/2018-06/theres-case-diesels

HMS
Gotland, a Swedish AIP submarine, “sank” many U.S. nuclear fast-attack subs, destroyers, frigates, cruisers, and even the USS Ronald Reagan (CVN-76) aircraft carrier in joint exercises.11

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/t...ke-americas-nuclear-submarines-obsolete-18908

 

[Yaseen1]

the u.s submarine have only advantage that they have high payload and can launch 24 trident icbms at a time through single submarine whereas russian submarine can launch 20 bulava icbms at a time through single submarine

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

Even though oceans are vast and deep---the subs donot travel any which way they can---. There are ocean highways---there are 'roads' that the subs travel on. These are 'known' ways that have been mapped thru under the ocean research vessels---.

So the subs take predicatble routes. The cat and mouse game begins when the dive in for the long journey---nuc subs stay submerged for as long as they want to---but the diesel electric have to pop up to freshen up after a certain number of days---.

The speed of different subs during peace time is also predictable as well as during combat time---so non nuclear subs are predictable where they are going to come up for air---..

This predictability is based upon the idea that the opposing party knew from the begining when the opponents subs dove under water where and when---.

 

[Arsalan]

Hi,

Even though oceans are vast and deep---the subs donot travel any which way they can---. There are ocean highways---there are 'roads' that the subs travel on. These are 'known' ways that have been mapped thru under the ocean research vessels---.

So the subs take predicatble routes. The cat and mouse game begins when the dive in for the long journey---nuc subs stay submerged for as long as they want to---but the diesel electric have to pop up to freshen up after a certain number of days---.

The speed of different subs during peace time is also predictable as well as during combat time---so non nuclear subs are predictable where they are going to come up for air---..

This predictability is based upon the idea that the opposing party knew from the begining when the opponents subs dove under water where and when---.

A small addition or clarification sir, subs travel on, not pathways but mapped territory. Calling it a road or pathway gives an indication that there is little room for deviation and signifies a corridor a few kilometer wide at max! That is not the case, a route to a particular patrol area and then the rout in that patrolling area is usually mapped and give the submarine a huge area to move in. So what you call pathways can essentially be hundreds of kilometer wide and detecting a submarine or predicting its movement wont be as simple and easy as you mentioned. Yes they wont have space like a fighter jet will have flying in the air but they wont be confined to small areas of movement either. In fact, sometimes the under water terrain will give a submarine plenty of places to hide and move relative undetected.

 

[MastanKhan]

A small addition or clarification sir, subs travel on, not pathways but mapped territory. Calling it a road or pathway gives an indication that there is little room for deviation and signifies a corridor a few kilometer wide at max! That is not the case, a route to a particular patrol area and then the rout in that patrolling area is usually mapped and give the submarine a huge area to move in. So what you call pathways can essentially be hundreds of kilometer wide and detecting a submarine or predicting its movement wont be as simple and easy as you mentioned. Yes they wont have space like a fighter jet will have flying in the air but they wont be confined to small areas of movement either. In fact, sometimes the under water terrain will give a submarine plenty of places to hide and move relative undetected.

Hi,

Well it may seem to be so---but if the opponent knows what sub launched from where---a non nuc can go deep for only so long---it has to come out to snorkel---and countries who manage a successful modern sub platform would be able to predict successfully where the sub could pop out to breath.

But if the sub is not known to have taken off---then it would be next to impossible to detect it---because there is no reference point---.

Non nuc subs can also be caught by the presence of supply ships in certain areas---.

All the known hiding places and the ways and routes have been mapped out---subs don't deviate from their routes.

So---when talking about the pathways for subs by default---you consider the pathways for subs and not cars and trucks---.

If there are hiding places---then that makes for a hiding place for an opponent as well---.

 

[Arsalan 345]

i think it's very difficult to hunt a stealth sub.noise absorbing technology is far superior.also sensors of american carriers are sophisticated but it depends who is hunting who! there are 60% chance that the stealth sub will strike first and win.aircraft carriers are huge,more vulnerable.

 

[Paul2]

A third way may well be under way.

Passing birdie news department: When Xi went to Russia,Putin showed him his "Poseidon" sub, and apparently Xi got a liking of the idea, and demanded the same from the industry. Jiangnan won the tender.

China has no micro reactors for the thing, so... they just filled it to the brim with lithium batteries, and it is apparently beating any AIP sub at the moment, being able to sail from China to Los Angeles, and back few times over autonomously.

 

[Shabi1]

The New Mystery Submarine Seen in China: What We Know - Naval News

At the height of the Cold War defense analysts often tried to piece together information about a new types of submarine seen outside shipyards. Today this is playing out again, only in China. A new submarine, with an unusual sail, has recently emerged.

www.navalnews.com

Also in recent news.

Could be a variant of the Yuan class

 

[MastanKhan]

A small addition or clarification sir, subs travel on, not pathways but mapped territory. Calling it a road or pathway gives an indication that there is little room for deviation and signifies a corridor a few kilometer wide at max! That is not the case, a route to a particular patrol area and then the rout in that patrolling area is usually mapped and give the submarine a huge area to move in. So what you call pathways can essentially be hundreds of kilometer wide and detecting a submarine or predicting its movement wont be as simple and easy as you mentioned. Yes they wont have space like a fighter jet will have flying in the air but they wont be confined to small areas of movement either. In fact, sometimes the under water terrain will give a submarine plenty of places to hide and move relative undetected.

Hi,

Most posters on this forum were not even born when I learnt about the way they travelled.

My writing in general terms was evidence enough and talking about it meant that I knew about it.

 

[ARMalik]

A third way may well be under way.

Passing birdie news department: When Xi went to Russia,Putin showed him his "Poseidon" sub, and apparently Xi got a liking of the idea, and demanded the same from the industry. Jiangnan won the tender.

China has no micro reactors for the thing, so... they just filled it to the brim with lithium batteries, and it is apparently beating any AIP sub at the moment, being able to sail from China to Los Angeles, and back few times over autonomously.

Doesn't make sense. Even with rapid chargers, how long would it take for immense Sub batteries to be recharged??

 

[Paul2]

Doesn't make sense. Even with rapid chargers, how long would it take for immense Sub batteries to be recharged??

I guess it's not made to be constantly on patrol. Probably a maintenance recharge few times a year, and then it will be either lying on the seabed, or cruising at extremely slow speeds, surfacing only to receive commands over satcom.

I see there is only one use for something like this. Sails to US West coast with a few megatons on board, and kaboom.