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Pakistan’s Missing Market. Resuming trade with India is a chance to escape spiraling crises.

Our failure wasn't hatred with India, it was not making basic improvements within our politics, economy etc
we can stay as one country without hating anyone.
just as many other countries do.

this blind hatred towards India has been used time and again to push our masses to serving the feudal lords.
If trade with India will:
- reduce inflation
- increase our chances of creating industry organically (we cant compete with chinese industry, am pretty sure we can certainly compete with Indian industry)
then I am all for it.

my major concern is the amount of distrust we have built up. so long as trade means strictly no people tranferring to our side of the border, why should that be a problem?

as far as Kashmir is concerned - we can still have that dispute continuing I believe? its not like our army is ready to fight India any moment.
 
Whoever wrote this is right
normal trading relationship with india can go a long way in helping our economy grow
If there are 10 things I will do to grow our economy, this'll be 7,8th on my list

Its not a sign of "defeat" nor does it change our stance visavis IOk
China trades with Taiwan, Afghanistan trades with us despite laying claim to half our country, Saudi trades with Iran ffs!

Unless we are NK or some pariah state, its weird for us not to trade
whats the worst that could happen? SM trolling?
whats the best that could happen? - cheaper imports helping our CAD issues
 
As Pakistan lurches from one crisis to another, it needs a fundamental rethink of its geopolitical and economic strategy. Without it, any International Monetary Fund program—the most recent being a “stand-by arrangement” for around $3 billion, approved on July 12—only buys some time before the next cataclysm.

Pakistan must start putting sustainable and inclusive economic growth above all else, especially its elite-focused policies that have created a cycle of profligacy and austerity. Average annual economic growth between 2010 and 2022 has been lackluster, around 4 percent, and has been accompanied by a rise in Pakistan’s total debt as a share of its GDP, from 55 percent to 76 percent. Bangladesh, in contrast, grew at an annual average of 6.2 percent over the same period, while its debt to GDP ratio rose from 30 percent to 39 percent.

In addition to addressing spiraling debt, faster and more inclusive growth is the best pathway for the poor and vulnerable to join the middle class.

The big step Pakistan could take to reinvigorate growth would be to embrace trade with India, which is currently almost nonexistent. World Bank research, on which I worked, reveals that Pakistan’s exports could increase by 80 percent, with commensurate impacts on GDP and employment, if it had a normal trading relationship with India. Extrapolating from these estimates, Pakistan’s exports of goods, only a mere $31.5 billion in 2022, could be about $25 billion higher if trade with India was realized. Another World Bank study shows that India accounts for as much as 85 percent of Pakistan’s total unrealized trade potential.

Deeper economic engagement with India could also help address other acute problems in Pakistan’s economy, including rampant inflation, which has led to an increase in poverty over the last year; a rent-seeking private sector that constantly lobbies for protection and favorable tax treatment; and the long-standing energy crisis, exacerbated by the ongoing economic calamity. Given the free fall of Pakistan’s economy since 2022, trade with India could prove very valuable.

Trade with India has been virtually halted since 2019, following the Pulwama terrorist attack in India and the passage of the Jammu and Kashmir Reorganization Bill. Currently, Pakistan allows imports from India on an ad hoc basis. For trade to normalize in a way that allows Pakistan to reap its full benefits, Pakistan would need to first rescind the ban on imports from India, and India would need to remove the penal duty of 200 percent on Pakistani imports. These could be followed by Pakistan giving India “most-favored nation” status—the same tariff treatment as given to other trade partners—and India reinstating such status to Pakistan; both countries agreeing on a timeline for rationalizing tariffs; and Pakistan doing away with trade restrictions on land borders.

The effects would be swift. Under normal trading arrangements, Pakistan’s imports from India, like its exports, would increase significantly. Had Pakistan allowed standard imports from India, they would have helped alleviate back-breaking inflation affecting critical products such as wheat and onions (India is among the world’s top exporters), and mitigated the impact on the poor. Given the sensitivity to inflation in South Asia, the political benefits of inflation-reducing imports should not be underestimated.

Trade with India could also help increase competitive pressure and productivity in the domestic market. Moreover, the availability of an immense Indian export market could excite Pakistani entrepreneurs and introduce some added pressure on entrenched domestic industrialists. A larger market may also allow the incumbent players to be somewhat more generous in ceding space to potential competitors from Pakistan and India.

And then, on the energy front, India already exports power to Bangladesh and Nepal and has significant surplus capacity. Its solar power prices are amongst the lowest in the world. Given the easy geographical terrain, Pakistan can ameliorate its power crunch by importing power and refined petroleum from across the border in the Punjab, thereby fulfilling the promise of an earlier dialogue that stalled for political reasons. It might even herald a very promising renewable energy partnership.

In this way, a vibrant trading relationship with India can help Pakistan to realize significant structural gains in an organic rather than mandated manner: by inducing productivity improvement and innovation, reducing price distortions, and enabling higher inflows of foreign direct investment. These are well-known gains from trade, but given the immense underexploited potential of bilateral trade, such gains are likely to be quite important for the Pakistani economy.

A key question is whether Pakistan’s military, which in effect wields veto power, would go along with this trade-centered approach. It might—for both tactical, short-term reasons, and for longer-term security benefits. During the very hopeful 2011-2012 attempts to normalize trade between India and Pakistan, it was vested economic interests (such as the agriculture, automobile, and pharmaceutical lobbies), rather than the army, that prevented the final steps from being taken. Now that Pakistan is suffering from unprecedented economic hardship, the army has become a partner in an “economic revival plan” that focuses on exports and foreign investment. Given the plan’s focus on dollar inflows and investment, the army may not be averse to reaping the benefits of engaging with the “enemy” economy.

In addition, the army might prefer to not have two active borders to deal with. Pakistan’s relations with Afghanistan have deteriorated over the past two years, and consequently, its defense forces are quite busy on its Western border as they deal with cross-border and local attacks against the military and civilian population from the Taliban. In this situation, a quiet border with India—a cease-fire between Pakistan and India has largely held since February 2021—is an attractive proposition. Cordial trade relations could help in meeting that goal.


I don't understand why people think doing trade with india or making relation with Israel will solve Pakistan economic problems, Pakistan economic problem is because of corrupt system, and not because of these trade issues. Doing this will only help elites to do more corruption and nothing else (maybe some little little lollypops for people but nothing significant).

Kuwain se kutta nikalte nahi, dool se pani bahar pekhne se samjte hain pani saaf ho jaye ga. Haqaiq se bebehra Jahil log. :hitwall:
 
I don't understand why people think doing trade with india or making relation with Israel will solve Pakistan economic problems, Pakistan economic problem is because of corrupt system, and not because of these trade issues. Doing this will only help elites to do more corruption and nothing else (maybe some little little lollypops for people but nothing significant).

Kuwain se kutta nikalte nahi, dool se pani bahar pekhne se samjte hain pani saaf ho jaye ga. Haqaiq se bebehra Jahil log. :hitwall:
IT WONT SOLVE OUR ISSUES - ITS JUST ONE OF THE STEPS TOWARDS HELPING US SOLVE OUR ISSUES

we can stay as one country without hating anyone.
just as many other countries do.

this blind hatred towards India has been used time and again to push our masses to serving the feudal lords.
If trade with India will:
- reduce inflation
- increase our chances of creating industry organically (we cant compete with chinese industry, am pretty sure we can certainly compete with Indian industry)
then I am all for it.

my major concern is the amount of distrust we have built up. so long as trade means strictly no people tranferring to our side of the border, why should that be a problem?

as far as Kashmir is concerned - we can still have that dispute continuing I believe? its not like our army is ready to fight India any moment.
as of now no - we cant compete with indain industry
We'll be net importer but those imports would be significantly cheaper than other places
 
IT WONT SOLVE OUR ISSUES - ITS JUST ONE OF THE STEPS TOWARDS HELPING US SOLVE OUR ISSUES

No it won't solve our issue, because that's not our real issue. Our real issue behind our economic condition is establishment aka elites of Pakistan.

How much world's trade market share we have? Did we captured enough market share that we can say world market is saturated for us and It Is the only market left to capture?

Lage raho adrak ke peeche sab.
 
I don't understand why people think doing trade with india or making relation with Israel will solve Pakistan economic problems, Pakistan economic problem is because of corrupt system, and not because of these trade issues. Doing this will only help elites to do more corruption and nothing else (maybe some little little lollypops for people but nothing significant).

Kuwain se kutta nikalte nahi, dool se pani bahar pekhne se samjte hain pani saaf ho jaye ga. Haqaiq se bebehra Jahil log. :hitwall:

According to this logic, however, there should be absolutely no trade whatsoever to, from or inside Pakistan. Those elites will benefit, you see.

It's two different issues, even if related, unless you are advocating for things to get so bad that mass insurrection and even civil war is your plan.

Pakistan's system is corrupt and its trade is... words fail me. Both need fixing. If trade and or relations as you mention will help with either of these, even slightly not to mention substantially, then any opportunity should be grasped with both hands.

As I have pointed out several times on this forum in the last 48 hours, by 2050, Pakistan is projected to have ANOTHER 200 million people over what it has today. They will likely not care about who you trade with. They will likely care about what to eat besides each other. Winter isn't coming. It's those 4 horsemen of the apocalypse!

Visual assistance to help illustrate a point below.

Horsemen_of_the_Apocalypse.jpg
 
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No it won't solve our issue, because that's not our real issue. Our real issue behind our economic condition is establishment aka elites of Pakistan.

How much world's trade market share we have? Did we captured enough market share that we can say world market is saturated for us and It Is the only market left to capture?

Lage raho adrak ke peeche sab.
we are not capturing any market dude, we are only looking for relatively cheaper imports
we are in that position
15$B+ of our imports is just petroleum
Best import substitution we can do rn is by investing in coal, solar, hydro
nothing to do with india
which we are with our limited means, I'll be honest
EV rickshaw, motorcycle, only coal power plants from now on, incentivizing solar and hydro dam projects
We are moving in the right direction on that front

only thing we'll be importing from them are some machinery, agricultural produce or at best some coal all of it at a much cheaper cost as our infrastructure is connected from highways to rail lines
most of our consumption market is up north so even fuel and transportation costs comes down
 
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As Pakistan lurches from one crisis to another, it needs a fundamental rethink of its geopolitical and economic strategy. Without it, any International Monetary Fund program—the most recent being a “stand-by arrangement” for around $3 billion, approved on July 12—only buys some time before the next cataclysm.

Pakistan must start putting sustainable and inclusive economic growth above all else, especially its elite-focused policies that have created a cycle of profligacy and austerity. Average annual economic growth between 2010 and 2022 has been lackluster, around 4 percent, and has been accompanied by a rise in Pakistan’s total debt as a share of its GDP, from 55 percent to 76 percent. Bangladesh, in contrast, grew at an annual average of 6.2 percent over the same period, while its debt to GDP ratio rose from 30 percent to 39 percent.

In addition to addressing spiraling debt, faster and more inclusive growth is the best pathway for the poor and vulnerable to join the middle class.

The big step Pakistan could take to reinvigorate growth would be to embrace trade with India, which is currently almost nonexistent. World Bank research, on which I worked, reveals that Pakistan’s exports could increase by 80 percent, with commensurate impacts on GDP and employment, if it had a normal trading relationship with India. Extrapolating from these estimates, Pakistan’s exports of goods, only a mere $31.5 billion in 2022, could be about $25 billion higher if trade with India was realized. Another World Bank study shows that India accounts for as much as 85 percent of Pakistan’s total unrealized trade potential.

Deeper economic engagement with India could also help address other acute problems in Pakistan’s economy, including rampant inflation, which has led to an increase in poverty over the last year; a rent-seeking private sector that constantly lobbies for protection and favorable tax treatment; and the long-standing energy crisis, exacerbated by the ongoing economic calamity. Given the free fall of Pakistan’s economy since 2022, trade with India could prove very valuable.

Trade with India has been virtually halted since 2019, following the Pulwama terrorist attack in India and the passage of the Jammu and Kashmir Reorganization Bill. Currently, Pakistan allows imports from India on an ad hoc basis. For trade to normalize in a way that allows Pakistan to reap its full benefits, Pakistan would need to first rescind the ban on imports from India, and India would need to remove the penal duty of 200 percent on Pakistani imports. These could be followed by Pakistan giving India “most-favored nation” status—the same tariff treatment as given to other trade partners—and India reinstating such status to Pakistan; both countries agreeing on a timeline for rationalizing tariffs; and Pakistan doing away with trade restrictions on land borders.

The effects would be swift. Under normal trading arrangements, Pakistan’s imports from India, like its exports, would increase significantly. Had Pakistan allowed standard imports from India, they would have helped alleviate back-breaking inflation affecting critical products such as wheat and onions (India is among the world’s top exporters), and mitigated the impact on the poor. Given the sensitivity to inflation in South Asia, the political benefits of inflation-reducing imports should not be underestimated.

Trade with India could also help increase competitive pressure and productivity in the domestic market. Moreover, the availability of an immense Indian export market could excite Pakistani entrepreneurs and introduce some added pressure on entrenched domestic industrialists. A larger market may also allow the incumbent players to be somewhat more generous in ceding space to potential competitors from Pakistan and India.

And then, on the energy front, India already exports power to Bangladesh and Nepal and has significant surplus capacity. Its solar power prices are amongst the lowest in the world. Given the easy geographical terrain, Pakistan can ameliorate its power crunch by importing power and refined petroleum from across the border in the Punjab, thereby fulfilling the promise of an earlier dialogue that stalled for political reasons. It might even herald a very promising renewable energy partnership.

In this way, a vibrant trading relationship with India can help Pakistan to realize significant structural gains in an organic rather than mandated manner: by inducing productivity improvement and innovation, reducing price distortions, and enabling higher inflows of foreign direct investment. These are well-known gains from trade, but given the immense underexploited potential of bilateral trade, such gains are likely to be quite important for the Pakistani economy.

A key question is whether Pakistan’s military, which in effect wields veto power, would go along with this trade-centered approach. It might—for both tactical, short-term reasons, and for longer-term security benefits. During the very hopeful 2011-2012 attempts to normalize trade between India and Pakistan, it was vested economic interests (such as the agriculture, automobile, and pharmaceutical lobbies), rather than the army, that prevented the final steps from being taken. Now that Pakistan is suffering from unprecedented economic hardship, the army has become a partner in an “economic revival plan” that focuses on exports and foreign investment. Given the plan’s focus on dollar inflows and investment, the army may not be averse to reaping the benefits of engaging with the “enemy” economy.

In addition, the army might prefer to not have two active borders to deal with. Pakistan’s relations with Afghanistan have deteriorated over the past two years, and consequently, its defense forces are quite busy on its Western border as they deal with cross-border and local attacks against the military and civilian population from the Taliban. In this situation, a quiet border with India—a cease-fire between Pakistan and India has largely held since February 2021—is an attractive proposition. Cordial trade relations could help in meeting that goal.
I have my doubts about your numbers. It will be more a one sided trade like with BD. Your country doesn't produce anything that we need.
 
According to this logic, however, there should be absolutely no trade whatsoever to, from or inside Pakistan. Those elites will benefit, you see.

It's two different issues, even if related, unless you are advocating for things to get so bad that mass insurrection and even civil war is your plan.

Pakistan's system is corrupt and its Trade is... words fail me. Both need fixing. If trade and or relations as you mention will help with either of these, even slightly not to mention substantially then any opportunity should be grasped with both hands.

As I have pointed out several times on this forum in the last 48 hours, by 2050 Pakistan is projected to have ANOTHER 200 million people over what it has today. They will likely not care about who you trade with. They will likely care about what to eat besides each other. Winter isn't coming, it's those 4 horsemen of the apocalypse!

Visual assistance to help illustrate a point below.

View attachment 958704


Current 250 + Projected 200 million population will either be burden or resource depends it is developed or not. And this is where both Opportunity and Threat exist but who cares............. Personal benefits of some are supreme.


P.S.: I got your point and honestly speaking you are not wrong but I am a bit frustrated now with these economical solutions where focus on minor issues are much more and basic major issues were ignored. (And sometimes these are cover-up for someone's own agenda).
 
we are not capturing any market dude, we are only looking for relatively cheaper imports
we are in that position
15$B+ of our imports is just petroleum
Best import substitution we can do rn is by investing in coal, solar, hydro
nothing to do with india
which we are with our limited means, I'll be honest
EV rickshaw, motorcycle, only coal power plants from now on, incentivizing solar and hydro dam projects
We are moving in the right direction on that front

only thing we'll be importing from them are some machinery, agricultural produce or at best some coal all of it at a much cheaper cost as our infrastructure is connected from highways to rail lines
most of our consumption market is up north so even fuel and transportation costs comes down
what can we export rn or in 5-6 years time
textiles (good cause we produce our own cotton, so except for machinery little to no import costs)
India is not a market
mining?- india is not a market, if they are a market than we're doing something very wrong by not refining our product's (IE Himalyan salt type of situations)
IT? - India is not a market for that
Agricultural produce/ meat produce - not a major market
Some other basic machinery (like fans, surgical equipment's,rickshaw, bikes etc etc basic stuff like that) - but they do it better than us, so we probably need to defend our market forget export
pharma? - They do the same, so they'll be more of a competitor than anything

ik its not exports exactly but you still earn $ from it - tourism? - it probably can become a big thing but I would never encourage it with india, that's a disaster waiting to happen
and in order to attract other countries L&O situation needs to significantly improve over a period of time
I can see Pakistan making 3-4$ billion out of tourism

What we get from them is cheaper imports as our economy in a consumption led economy (which needs to change but it is what it is- agriculture, maybe coal)
Our biggest imports are petroleum - and that'd take some time to fix
 
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we are not capturing any market dude, we are only looking for relatively cheaper imports
we are in that position
15$B+ of our imports is just petroleum
Best import substitution we can do rn is by investing in coal, solar, hydro
nothing to do with india
which we are with our limited means, I'll be honest
EV rickshaw, motorcycle, only coal power plants from now on, incentivizing solar and hydro dam projects
We are moving in the right direction on that front

only thing we'll be importing from them are some machinery, agricultural produce or at best some coal all of it at a much cheaper cost as our infrastructure is connected from highways to rail lines
most of our consumption market is up north so even fuel and transportation costs comes down

Agreed with you. Just add it will also start killing whatever our little own production we have in some areas. We will also start importing what few products we are not importing right now. It will make us more import oriented.
 
I don't understand why people think doing trade with india or making relation with Israel will solve Pakistan economic problems, Pakistan economic problem is because of corrupt system, and not because of these trade issues. Doing this will only help elites to do more corruption and nothing else (maybe some little little lollypops for people but nothing significant).

Kuwain se kutta nikalte nahi, dool se pani bahar pekhne se samjte hain pani saaf ho jaye ga. Haqaiq se bebehra Jahil log. :hitwall:
Corruption exists in a lot of countries. We are not an exception.

Trade, with anyone, opens up your wallet share. It simply brings more wealth into the system. So either you wait till kingdom come for your corruption woes to be sorted out by a Salahuddin Ayubi or you get on the trade bandwagon as does the rest of the world. Pakistan has been left leagues behind by even the communist Vietnam. Pretty soon most of the African continent will march ahead (and possibly even Afghanistan and North Korea).

Pakistan's entire foreign policy/strategic thinking needs to undergo a massive revision.
 
Corruption exists in a lot of countries. We are not an exception.

Trade, with anyone, opens up your wallet share. It simply brings more wealth into the system. So either you wait till kingdom come for your corruption woes to be sorted out by a Salahuddin Ayubi or you get on the trade bandwagon as does the rest of the world. Pakistan has been left leagues behind by even the communist Vietnam. Pretty soon most of the African continent will march ahead (and possibly even Afghanistan and North Korea).

Pakistan's entire foreign policy/strategic thinking needs to undergo a massive revision.



Pakistan is only racing with Nigeria. Having everything to become a prosperous nation except good people.
 
Trade with China drove up imports, destroyed businesses, and increased smuggling. Trade with India will do much worse. Pakistani businessmen are stupid. They can't compete on the international level. Indian products will crush them and eliminate whatever local production exists.

Only trade with US and Europe has benefitted Pakistan as it exports more to them than it imports from them.
 
Pakistan is only racing with Nigeria. Having everything to become a prosperous nation except good people.

Pakistan and Nigeria are in a race - who will have most people ? who will have the most corrupt system ? It is a scary race. It is one race I do not want to win
 

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