Pakistan's Latest Ruling Makes Us Want To Bang Our Heads On The Table And Weep

[VCheng]

Why can't the woman keep all her share of the property she inherited from her father?

Plus, why shouldn't the assets of the father and mother (or fathers and mothers) be divided equally among all legal children, assuming no wills changing inheritance allocations? There is no need to complicate inheritance laws.

Because the Quran specifies the Laws of Inheritance for Muslims, maybe?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Isn’t the sole testimony of the rape victim sufficient for conviction if it inspires confidence but without requiring extensive corroboration, as laid down in numerous Pakistani and Indian superior courts judgments?

The question posed here, regarding testimony of a rape victim alone being sufficient to render a guilty verdict, is troublesome and in my view would not pass scrutiny in most civilized societies. Was the prosecution in the Mukhtar Mai case not even able to bring in any eye witnesses who saw the rape?

Because the Quran specifies the Laws of Inheritance for Muslims, maybe?

The Shia and Sunni directions on inheritance are different, so I doubt inheritance laws are finely detailed in the Quran, at least not to the point of avoiding differing interpretations

 

[VCheng]

The Shia and Sunni directions on inheritance are different, so I doubt inheritance laws are finely detailed in the Quran, at least not to the point of avoiding differing interpretations

It is pretty clear:

The Quran contains only three verses [4:11, 4:12 and 4:176] which give specific details of inheritance shares. Using the information in these verses together with the traditions of the Prophet Muhammad (SAWS) as well as methods of juristic reasoning, the Muslims jurists have expounded the laws of inheritance in such meticulous detail that large volumes of work have been written on this subject.

"Allah commands you regarding your children. For the male a share equivalent to that of two females. " [Quran 4:11]

More here: THE ISLAMIC LAWS OF INHERITANCE

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

It is pretty clear:

Not really:
"4:11
Allah charges you, concerning your children:
to the male the like of the portion of two females,
and if they be women above two, then for them two-thirds of what he leaves,
but if she be one then to her a half;
and to his parents to each one of the two the sixth of what he leaves, if he has children;
but if he has no children, and his heirs are his parents,
a third to his mother,
or if he has brothers, to his mother a sixth,
after any bequest he may bequeath, or any debt.

Your fathers or your sons -
you know not which out of them is nearer in profit to you.
So Allah apportions; surely Allah is All-knowing, All-wise.

4:12
And for you a half of what your wives leave, if they have no children;
but if they have children, then for you of what they leave a fourth,
after any bequest they may bequeath, or any debt.
And for them a fourth of what you leave, if you have no children;
but if you have children, then for them of what you leave an eighth.
after any bequest they may bequeath, or any debt.

If a man or woman have no heir direct [i.e. children or parents],
but have a brother or a sister, to each of the two a sixth;
but if they are more numerous than that, they share equally a third,
after any bequest they may bequeath, or any debt not prejudicial;
a charge from Allah. Allah is All-knowing, All-clement.

4:176
They will ask thee for a pronouncement.
Say: 'Allah pronounces to you concerning the indirect heirs.
If a man perishes having no children,
but he has a sister, she shall receive a half of what he leaves,
and he is her heir if she has no children.
If there be two sisters,
they shall receive two-thirds of what he leaves;
if there be brothers and sisters,
the male shall receive the portion of two females.
Allah makes clear to you, lest you go astray;
Allah has knowledge of everything."

There appear to be various conditions and exceptions in place, and some modern Islamic scholars are questioning the 'blanket' interpretation of the 'son receiving twice as much as the daughter'.

 

[VCheng]

There appear to be various conditions and exceptions in place, and some modern Islamic scholars are questioning the 'blanket' interpretation of the 'son receiving twice as much as the daughter'.

To some, it is clear; to others, it is open to interpretation. It all depends on one's personal faith.

 

[Winchester]

..

The question posed here, regarding testimony of a rape victim alone being sufficient to render a guilty verdict, is troublesome and in my view would not pass scrutiny in most civilized societies. Was the prosecution in the Mukhtar Mai case not even able to bring in any eye witnesses who saw the rape?

To my knowledge there were two witnesses for the prosecution

Mukhtaran Mai verdict: Where the court went wrong – The Express Tribune Blog

Justice Saqib Nisar also passed a very crude remark about the victim...I remember Fatima Bhutto quoting it during an interview

 

[KingMamba]

Corine redfurn and Marie whatever do not sound like the names of Pakistani women, in other words these foreign cunts need to mind their business.

 

[RazorMC]

I guess this comes from the Islamic concept of a male being responsible for the entire welfare of the children and the woman being absolved of any financial burden that their upbringing might entail.

 

[KingMamba]

I dont know what the opinion of an AVERAGE person is....The opinion of the judge is def shitty and the judges are prob brain damaged

The judges are right, in Pakistan males are the ones bringing the money unless the woman can finance the lives of their children the fathers need to play a part in their lives. Unless you want to hand women custody without responsibility like in the west.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

To some, it is clear; to others, it is open to interpretation. It all depends on one's personal faith.

Of course, though there are some issues that 'interpretation' simply cannot be used as an excuse to justify. Some (mostly patriarchal) Islamic scholars who so strongly advocate in favor of the 'son getting twice as much as the daughter' are the same ones who strongly advocate in favor of child marriages and pedophilia. As a State and society we already see a majority opinion in Pakistan against the concept of pedophilia, with opposition towards laws banning child marriages coming almost exclusively from the religious parties and feudals.

There is a need for a similar high-visibility public discussion on equality in default inheritance laws (barring a legally acceptable will).

 

[KingMamba]

I am sorry brother but this article sounds like the work of some spin doctor liberal.

This is what the verdict is
"Mother can keep infant children but once grown father have more rights to them"

then spin doctors comes in and spins the story as
"Courts rules that mother are not human enough to keep children, they are second class citizen who have no right to keep the child but only to raise a child from infancy since they are the sub human creature and their reason for existance is to satisfy men's sexual need and bare his childern, once the child is born woman can be discarded as a used diaper"

I thought you were smarter than that to even post that garbage.

Notice how the writer is not even a Pakistani, basically foreign feminazis meddling in affairs that do not concern them.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

these liberal-lib-TARD leftists thrive off class warfare and socio-economic and social issues in developing countries so that people can give them some attention during the day

many reforms are the need of the hour but we dont need some outsider who knows nothing about Pakistan to comment..

 

[VCheng]

Of course, though there are somethings that 'interpretation' simply cannot be used as an excuse to justify. Some (mostly patriarchal) Islamic scholars who so strongly advocate in favor of the 'son getting twice as much as the daughter' are the same ones who strongly advocate in favor of child marriages and pedophilia. As a State and society we already see a majority opinion in Pakistan against the concept of pedophilia, with opposition towards laws banning child marriages coming almost exclusively from the religious parties and feudals.

There is a need for a similar high-visibility public discussion on equality in default inheritance laws (barring a legally acceptable will).

Agreed 100%. But judges can act only upon the laws as written. That is how the religious right force their interpretations down everybody else's throats, discussion or no discussion.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Corine redfurn and Marie whatever do not sound like the names of Pakistani women, in other words these foreign cunts need to mind their business.

What does their nationality have to do with anything? Please respond to the arguments they have made and the concerns they have raised.

Spouting abusive language towards them, in the manner you have done, only reflects poorly on Pakistan and Pakistanis.

The judges are right, in Pakistan males are the ones bringing the money unless the woman can finance the lives of their children the fathers need to play a part in their lives. Unless you want to hand women custody without responsibility like in the west.

The judges (assuming the complete SC judgement reflects your mindset) and you are wrong - the mother should receive a monthly stipend (if she has no income earning potential of her own) out of the income of the father to support raising the children through adulthood. In addition, the judgment generalizes and refuses to recognize the fact tat women are increasingly pursuing careers and earning sufficient incomes to support raising a family on their own, even without financial support from an ex-husband and father of the children.

The West has the process and family laws correct - it is the Islamic world that is stuck in the dark ages and medieval mindset with these out of date interpretations.

 

[KingMamba]

@A.M.
@xyxmt
People siding this are missing these points even after highlighting them, you people cant read?

So a mother cant protect her child from a pedophile ex husband or one who abuses her child?


Continue reading and you will find this



The emphasis is on the behaviour of the courts and the shitty verdicts they churn!

So courts should change the verdict because a small small percentage of fathers may be sickos? The vast majority of Pakistani men love their children dearly and to change the law would be an injustice to them.