Pakistan's ISI intelligence agency 'supports' Taliban: UK University

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Ok, likewise from me also. But dodging a ball does not mean you get away...

I have refuted your arguments and pointed out the loopholes in this article. You keep harping on 'civilian control of ISI', which I also explained without any coherent response from you - so I fail to see what exactly you wish to discuss.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

India believes every terrorist outfit should be terminated regardless of its Afghan Taliban or Pak Taliban or whatever. For India, a terrorist is a terrorist.

But you believe they are different groups with different ideas. So if Afghan Taliban killed Bhutto why would Zardari have problems with Pak Taliban?

They are different groups with the same goal - terror.

Since India and the US consider them to be the same, one must also then believe Taliban claims regarding US/CIA/Blackwater carrying out terrorism in Pakistan.

 

[jagjitnatt]

But the President of Pakistan visiting a jail housing captured Taliban leaders, publicly (since jail staff were informed about the visit and told to prepare for it)

You are now twisting statements to gel with your ideas.

It wasn't a public meeting. These leaders aren't jailed in a normal jail. They have to be jailed in some safe place where only such terrorists are held. And wherever president goes, he has to inform first so as to let the security personnel to secure the area.

So there's nothing unusual about the above.

I am questioning the accounts by Taliban commanders, that the entire LSE report is based on, and pointing out that the Taliban have made very far fetched claims about NATO/US as well, and that one cannot cherry pick those claims as being credible that fit your particular POV, and discard those that do not.

If the stories are 'fantastic', and set a pattern, then the refutations are not necessarily so.

If you can believe India stealing water, India involved in Balochistan, US/Blackwater/CIA in Pak without a single proof, then this is a reasonably more credible research and confirms the already believed arguments.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

You are now twisting statements to gel with your ideas.

It wasn't a public meeting. These leaders aren't jailed in a normal jail. They have to be jailed in some safe place where only such terrorists are held. And wherever president goes, he has to inform first so as to let the security personnel to secure the area.

So there's nothing unusual about the above.

Valid point that the jail could be a secret location, but the visit itself appears to be high risk and completely contrary to Zardari's character and what the West thinks of him in supporting him.

So unless he is a bigger con artist than ever imagined, and is in fact a closet Taliban sympathizer leading a liberal party with a liberal and progressive facade, the accounts about him remain rather fantastic.

If you can believe India stealing water, India involved in Balochistan, US/Blackwater/CIA in Pak without a single proof, then this is a reasonably more credible research and confirms the already believed arguments.

Absolutely, and we should also believe the Taliban statements (that this 'research' is based on) when they claim CIA/US involvement in terrorism in Pakistan.

 

[Awesome]

If you can believe India stealing water, India involved in Balochistan, US/Blackwater/CIA in Pak without a single proof, then this is a reasonably more credible research and confirms the already believed arguments.

The Taliban also said the Peshawar Market bombings were done by the US, should we also believe in that now? And that wasn't any small time commander, it was the Kingpin Taliban, Mehsud himself.

http://info-wars.org/2009/10/31/blackwater-behind-peshawar-blast/

The fact is, anyone with half a brain's worth understanding of Pakistani politics would know that if such an alliance exists, Zardari has all the motivation in the world to see it fail, not support it.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

well said, even i believe that Zardari looks much more happy now, with his wife out of his way, he is no longer the puppet in his wifes hand that he was said to be. Im sure he is more than happy now, even he wouldnt have thought of ever coming the president. dont they say ek teer se do nishane lol

Zardari's cash cow is the West, specifically the US, not a bankrupt Pakistani State and Army.

I one attributes to him a criminal intent and a criminal personality, then one has to assume that he will go to the highest bidder. The highest bidder, by a long shot, is the US, not the Taliban and not the ISI.

 

[jagjitnatt]

The Taliban also said the Peshawar Market bombings were done by the US, should we also believe in that now? And that wasn't any small time commander, it was the Kingpin Taliban, Mehsud himself.

http://info-wars.org/2009/10/31/blackwater-behind-peshawar-blast/

The fact is, anyone with half a brain's worth understanding of Pakistani politics would know that if such an alliance exists, Zardari has all the motivation in the world to see it fail, not support it.

The thing is when the Taliban is talking about US or anyone else they are just speculating because they can not know it for sure.

But now they are talking about themselves and their own relations with the ISI. They are not speculating now.

You can not tell about someone else, but you definitely know about yourself.

 

[Awesome]

You are a Great Politician afterall AGNO, by re-reading the thread you are saying that your guilt ,of the argument, of not putting ISI under Civilian Agency and Defending with such GRACE to the Pakistanie Audience.

Please remind me, when did the topic of this discussion became "Analyzing Agnostic Muslim"?

Don't resort to character assassination when you can't speak on topic.

 

[jagjitnatt]

Zardari's cash cow is the West, specifically the US, not a bankrupt Pakistani State and Army.

I one attributes to him a criminal intent and a criminal personality, then one has to assume that he will go to the highest bidder. The highest bidder, by a long shot, is the US, not the Taliban and not the ISI.

ever heard the phrase, jaan hai toh jahaan hai?

 

[Awesome]

Why does ISI need to point a gun when the president is evident of its power?

If Osama call you and asks you to do something, will you wait until he puts a gun to your head? No. ISI's power is known to everyone in the govt. What happened to the previous democratic presidents who tried to govern on their own?

Either jailed or killed. Do you think Zardari would take suck a risk?

Zardari has went against the Army on the KLB issue and won... There is no justification to this fact when the whole world knows that Kayani is not interested in coups and has literally ordered the army to butt out of all the meddling in politics that the army has been famous for in previous decades.

There is not one intelligent person on the planet that believes otherwise.

 

[PakSher]

No no.

I don't think Zardari has anything to do with it. Actually none of the politicians have anything to do with it.

The command of Pakistan has always been with the Army. The army and the ISI have been running the country for a long time now. The army from day 1 has been anti-India and has been trying to do everything it can to harm us.

It is very evident from all the wars.

It is believed there is an ISI within the ISI. The retired ISI personnel have links with the Taliban and they provided funding and weapons from the Pak accounts to them.

As usual your Anti-Pakistan agenda is on. US and NATO Afghan War failures cannot be pushed on Pakistan. My toilet paper also says London School of Economics and I wipe my buttt with it, who cares what London School of Economics says, They will serve a better purpose if they focus on reviving the UK Trade Deficit and the recession hit UK Economy. Now what India says is propoganda, remeber those 38 Indian state sponsored terrorist training camps for the Muqti Bani for 2 decades. It is pay back time. I know it hurts but use upset stomach medication and London School of Economics Toilet paper to work through the pain.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

ever heard the phrase, jaan hai toh jahaan hai?

Right, and double crossing the US/CIA, and publicly appearing to be the central character calling for the destruction of the Taliban and therefore also making an enemy of them, will not give him 'jaan'.

The fact is that article became rubbish with the accusations against Zardari, and the fact that it used Taliban statements to justify its conclusions, since Taliban statements also lead one to conclude that the US is responsible for terrorism in Pakistan.

 

[Awesome]

ever heard the phrase, jaan hai toh jahaan hai?

I think you're overplaying Zardari's subservience to the Army. Zardari is weak politically, due to the splinters in the PPP, his corruption cases and a unifying opposition.

The army chief still continues to report the President and the PM as a subordinate. This whole line of argument is a convenient escape to justify an incredible theory based solely on the words of the Taliban grunts.

For that matter the TTP chief himself blamed the US to be behind the Peshawar market bombings, why not believe that the US is supporting terror as well?

Moreover why is the Taliban continuing on with bomb blasts and terrorist incidents within Pakistan. It is common belief that the attacks against the Ahmedis were initiated not by the TTP but by the North Waziristan Taliban - supposed allies of ISI?

We're supporting and funding them to bomb us? Why won't we ask them to bomb India?

Too many holes that can be punctured in this report.

 

[Bang Galore]

Zardari's cash cow is the West, specifically the US, not a bankrupt Pakistani State and Army.

I one attributes to him a criminal intent and a criminal personality, then one has to assume that he will go to the highest bidder. The highest bidder, by a long shot, is the US, not the Taliban and not the ISI.

That would depend on what is on offer. No point in having all the money in the world if you aren't around to enjoy it.

 

[Donatello]

Just like USA installed puppet governments in South American nations, just like the British had influence in South Asia and Africa, i think Pakistan and it's ISI have the absolute right to safeguard our borders and strategic aims. We don't give a damn about USA or NATO. Nor India. Afghanistan is on our borders, what we do with them shouldn't be someone's concern who writes up papers in a UK university.

That said, i don't see how ISI can be brought to take down Taliban. I mean, why would Pakistan do that? and even if Afghanistan got rid of the so called Taliban terrorists, maybe an American government would be in place. Pakistan is better off having it's influence rather than anyone else. If India feels threatened, then stop making stories and start fighting for it. For Indian party in Afghanistan is soon to be over
PERIOD.