Pakistan’s internal dynamics strain subcontinental peace

[FaujHistorian]

For your benefit . I quote specific points raised by @acid rain


Do give your opinion about these specific points .


@FaujHistorian

Come on Bro, you are naive if you deny...

1. Power struggle between PA and any govt in Pakistan.

2. ISI's proxies...including let and haqqanis.

3. Use of proxies against India.

4. Nawaz power deficit and his lack of control over the khaki's.

5. The ceasefire as a front to push infiltrators.....This when from musharraf to Nawaz to Zardari to bhutto have confessed to.

If one agrees to all that then one agrees with the article.

Point #1 has been thoroughly discredited after months long dharnas.
Point #2 there were proxies being used by everyone in Afghanistan. Your selective name drops show either ignorance or prejudice or both.

Point #3 Both India and Pakistan have their hands in proxy fights since 1947. if you are fair in your mind, you must point out what Indian gov did and which proxies did they support.

point #4 - Every country has its institutional competition. Judiciary, army, parliament, executive, provincial admns all are competing for power and resources. Again you are picking up just one out of sheer ignorance if not downright prejudice.

point #5 - This was totally valid in 1980s. But not in 2014. you gotta see LOC or at least learn a lot more to understand this.



And hence OP is based on ignorance and prejudice.


Hope you understand.

 

[Indo-guy]

Point #1 has been thoroughly discredited after months long dharnas.
Point #2 there were proxies being used by everyone in Afghanistan. Your selective name drops show either ignorance or prejudice or both.

Point #3 Both India and Pakistan have their hands in proxy fights since 1947. if you are fair in your mind, you must point out what Indian gov did and which proxies did they support.

point #4 - Every country has its institutional competition. Judiciary, army, parliament, executive, provincial admns all are competing for power and resources. Again you are picking up just one out of sheer ignorance if not downright prejudice.

point #5 - This was totally valid in 1980s. But not in 2014. you gotta see LOC or at least learn a lot more to understand this.



And hence OP is based on ignorance and prejudice.


Hope you understand.

Let us go pointwise
Could you care to explain how month long dharnas have discredited the contention that there is power struggle between PA and government ?

 

[nik22]

I would like to visit Pakistan. Indians who visit Pakistan always say good things. Same goes for Pakistanis who come to India.

What about organizing events in both countries. We find out how many people are interested in visiting each other county. Do a video chat for introduction and do the actual visit.

Members who live in outside countries and can not be a part of this. If they want, they can contribute funds.

There may be something good that can come out of this forum

Problem is, even if I want to visit Pakistan. I do not have friends there. I would be more comfortable if there are some people who can go as a group from India and some friends in Pakistan who can help.

 

[Joeblow]

My humble response to this article

 

[Supply&Demand]

Have you heard from Modi Ji making bombastic statements in the last week?

Why this chup chup kharray hain zaroor koi baat hai.


International pressure works, every time, all the time.

No major international corp wants to see our region in the hands of ranting politicians.

Modi Ji got that message loud and clear.

or may be it is Pakistani leaders who got the message very loud and clear...we have not heard even a whimper from Pakistani leaders in the last 2 weeks or so...

btw here is a statement from the no.2 guy in our govt.
check this out:

Pak won't dare to disturb border peace anytime soon: Rajnath Singh | Zee News

International corp or govts will only interfere when there is a chance of escalating into a wider conflict...but you may not accept it, india's foreign policymakers have become confident and little bit aggressive (only time will tell it will succeed or not to achieve our goals )..eg: 15 years back no Indian PM would have dared to meet israeli officials let alone the Israeli PM so openly for the fear of arab world's diplomatic retaliation... Modi not only met him..but is seriously considering visiting Israel.

 

[FaujHistorian]

Let us go pointwise
Could you care to explain how month long dharnas have discredited the contention that there is power struggle between PA and government ?

These days it is conspiracy theory spread far and wide.

PA will only step in as a last resort if Politicians fail to come to senses.

 

[FaujHistorian]

or may be it is Pakistani leaders who got the message very loud and clear...we have not heard even a whimper from Pakistani leaders in the last 2 weeks or so...

btw here is a statement from the no.2 guy in our govt.
check this out:

Pak won't dare to disturb border peace anytime soon: Rajnath Singh | Zee News

Hey man. whatever makes you happy.

If Ranath Singh is correct, then OP is even more wrong than what you all are saying.


My take is that Indians live in a dream world when it comes to Pakistan. They make up stories and then refute them by themselves.

Like an old man talking to himself.

 

[Indo-guy]

These days it is conspiracy theory spread far and wide.

PA will only step in as a last resort if Politicians fail to come to senses.

My friend , we are not talking about military coup here !

we are talking about PA exerting its supremacy in determination of foreign policy and undermining control of Civilian government in said matters by playing mediator between various political factions .

 

[FaujHistorian]

My friend , we are not talking about military coup here !

we are talking about PA exerting its supremacy in determination of foreign policy and undermining control of Civilian government in said matters by playing mediator between various political factions .

What "various political" factions.

There is one $tupid politician creating anarchy and military guy told him to calm down.

Why are you bent upon repeating half-brained jurnos, who must write $tupid @rse stuff because it is their job to spread conspiracy theories.

Luckily that's not your job. Right?

you are not a Pakistani/Indian journalist I hope.

 

[Indo-guy]

What "various political" factions.

There is one $tupid politician creating anarchy and military guy told him to calm down.

Why are you bent upon repeating half-brained jurnos, who must write $tupid @rse stuff because it is their job to spread conspiracy theories.

Luckily that's not your job. Right?

you are not a Pakistani/Indian journalist I hope.

at least you agree in saying that military guy told stupid politician to calm down and he actually 'listened' .

something like this absolutely unthinkable in India- I mean military guy telling political leader to keep quite will lead to military guy's immediate removal in India .

so that assertion of yours proves the point that military in Pakistan has so much sway to swing political leaders .


and that thing my dear friend is not good for democracy - this unprecedented power to make political leader ' make noise ' and ' make quite ' at an opportune time is in complete negation of very basis of democracy .

 

[FaujHistorian]

at least you agree in saying that military guy told stupid politician to calm down and he actually 'listened' .

something like this absolutely unthinkable in India- I mean military guy telling political leader to keep quite will lead to military guy's immediate removal in India .

so that assertion of yours proves the point that military in Pakistan has so much sway to swing political leaders .


and that thing my dear friend is not good for democracy - this unprecedented power to make political leader ' make noise ' and ' make quite ' at an opportune time is in complete negation of very basis of democracy .

please quit being 5th grade shcools yard bully by putting words beyond my post intended. not a good thing to be bully. if you know what I mean.


Look if someone is holding hostages at a bank.

And as one demand he says the person xyz must come and talk to him.

What would you do if you had to make a decision here?

Invite person xyz or not?


you are gettting too deep in your own story without paying attention to the other side.

Sadly




p.s. you keep on saying "unthinkable in India this or that"

I can say India this or that which is "unthinkable in USA".

please quit adding self-bombastic noise. Thank you

 

[acid rain]

Point #1 has been thoroughly discredited after months long dharnas.
Point #2 there were proxies being used by everyone in Afghanistan. Your selective name drops show either ignorance or prejudice or both.

Point #3 Both India and Pakistan have their hands in proxy fights since 1947. if you are fair in your mind, you must point out what Indian gov did and which proxies did they support.

point #4 - Every country has its institutional competition. Judiciary, army, parliament, executive, provincial admns all are competing for power and resources. Again you are picking up just one out of sheer ignorance if not downright prejudice.

point #5 - This was totally valid in 1980s. But not in 2014. you gotta see LOC or at least learn a lot more to understand this.



And hence OP is based on ignorance and prejudice.


Hope you understand.

You don't believe that the power struggle or the leadership vacuum created by this power struggle between the PA/ISI and any civie govt in Pakistan is destabilising Pakistan and as an extension the region?.

Do you believe there's no struggle between your mullahs, army/ghq/isi, various political parties, sectarian and international terrorist organization's, extremists, IslamiSt's, liberals, seculars, taliban etc etc...to get a bigger piece of the pie?.

 

[FaujHistorian]

You don't believe that the power struggle or the leadership vacuum created by this power struggle between the PA/ISI and any civie govt in Pakistan is destabilising Pakistan and as an extension the region?.

Do you believe there's no struggle between your mullahs, army/ghq/isi, various political parties, sectarian and international terrorist organization's, extremists, IslamiSt's, liberals, seculars, taliban etc etc...to get a bigger piece of the pie?.

just want to make one change in your statement.


----- the power struggle or the leadership vacuum created by this power struggle between the opposition politicians and any civie govt in Pakistan is destabilising Pakistan .


And the answer is hell yes.


I have had another thread opened specifically to point out this reality.


Since 1947, political anarchy is the Status Quo in Pakistan

 

[Indo-guy]

please quit being 5th grade shcools yard bully by putting words beyond my post intended. not a good thing to be bully. if you know what I mean.


Look if someone is holding hostages at a bank.

And as one demand he says the person xyz must come and talk to him.

What would you do if you had to make a decision here?

Invite person xyz or not?


you are gettting too deep in your own story without paying attention to the other side.

Sadly




p.s. you keep on saying "unthinkable in India this or that"
I can say India this or that which is "unthinkable in USA".
please quit adding self-bombastic noise. Thank you

I just stated the facts as they are .

are you denying the Pakistani military leadership's extensive grip on power structure in Pakistan ?

why do you keep denying that the Pakistani leadership is too attached to the power it enjoys to let it go in hands of civilian government ?

and this being the major cause for friction in Indo-Pakistani relations .

Kargil misadventure proved beyond doubt the dichotomy between Pakistani civilian and military leadership's approach towards India .

Isn't it true that while Pakistani civilian authorities were busy building bridges of friendship based on Indian initiative , Pakistan's military leadership was busy in ruining same overruling and overriding the civilian government ?

when truth becomes too uncomfortable one denounces it as self -bombastic noise...sadly !

 

[Indo-guy]

just want to make one change in your statement.


----- the power struggle or the leadership vacuum created by this power struggle between the opposition politicians and any civie govt in Pakistan is destabilising Pakistan .


And the answer is hell yes.


I have had another thread opened specifically to point out this reality.


Since 1947, political anarchy is the Status Quo in Pakistan

and we know very well who pulls the strings of these puppet wars between civie govt and opposition politicians !!!

and perhaps you know it too ..may be it is sheer denial rather than ignorance that overlook the fact you forget that your " Savior " is the one who is tormenting you and responsible for your languish .