Pakistan’s internal dynamics strain subcontinental peace

[Indo-guy]

meray bhai,

meray pirauy,

We just hosted Indian engineers who were here as part of plant installation team.

During their stay, we didn't do anything special. Sure we had our company cooks to make special veg meals for one of them, and beef free meat dishes for the rest. Made sure they get a comfortable place to stay even when the plant was being installed in the rural area.

After their work was done and they went back to India, they have written glowing letters to us and to their management.

What you or Chilani ji says is based on ignorance at best, and 5th grader school yard bully rantings at its worst.


So please become aware of your topic first and then only then write things.


Thank you

Dear @FaujHistorian


I do not contest the hospitality and magnanimity of average Pakistanis.

Neither there is an attempt to belittle Pakistan as a nation .

The question is about Pakistani institutions such as Pakistani military and its leadership and its offshoots which have misled Pakistan .

Pakistan was doing well and was well ahead of india in late 60's .

what happened at that point of time ? and why today Pakistan despite its obvious advantages has been relegated to such turmoil is matter of introspection !

 

[FaujHistorian]

This article explains a lot to a neutral observer about who is the original transgressor of the recent india-pakistan border clashes...
And also why even after pakistan's mega diplomatic push blaming india, failed to evoke any response from the international powers...coz no one believes Pakistanis

Most of these neutral observers live 1000s of miles from the area of discussion. Heck majority of them have not come within 50 miles of Pak-India border (let alone visiting Pakistan).

A poor grad student from india stuck in a dorm in EU country or UK or USA cannot be called "neutral observer".

Why?

He is usually "ignorant" observer.

 

[notsuperstitious]

Cherry picking international events will always lead you to a blind alley.

And this is what happened to OP as well.

Sir, my observations and conclusions are not objective, also I was too young when some of these things happened.

Hence I wanted your take. Just summarily rejecting observations is not what I expected. So you think these things are totally not connected? and if so why?

 

[FaujHistorian]

Dear @FaujHistorian


I do not contest the hospitality and magnanimity of average Pakistanis.

Neither there is an attempt to belittle Pakistan as a nation .

The question is about Pakistani institutions such as Pakistani military and its leadership and its offshoots which have misled Pakistan .

That same leadership opened up Wahga border for quick import of the industrial units from India.

The same military / civilian gov made sure everything goes without a hitch.


I am not talking about some God-directed good behavior.


it is simply business and commerce between the two countries.


People like Chilany (and sadly most of the $tupid advisors of Modi) are stuck in the past.


And I hope at least those Indians like yourself would open their eyes instead of using microscopes looking for faults. Any faults in Pakistan, while utterly ignoring the big picture and good future.

 

[Indo-guy]

Most of these neutral observers live 1000s of miles from the area of discussion. Heck majority of them have not come within 50 miles of Pak-India border (let alone visiting Pakistan).

A poor grad student from india stuck in a dorm in EU country or UK or USA cannot be called "neutral observer".

Why?

He is usually "ignorant" observer.

just because somebody is faraway from Pakistan does not make him ' ignorant' .

and just because somebody is sitting right at the center does not make him ' wise '.


why are you sidestepping the main issues raised and trying to discredit the crux of the matter by referring to smaller peripheral unimportant facets of this debate ?

 

[acid rain]

Most of these neutral observers live 1000s of miles from the area of discussion. Heck majority of them have not come within 50 miles of Pak-India border (let alone visiting Pakistan).

A poor grad student from india stuck in a dorm in EU country or UK or USA cannot be called "neutral observer".

Why?

He is usually "ignorant" observer.

There are a few Pakistan experts in India who are well versed with the antecedents.

 

[FaujHistorian]

just because somebody is faraway from Pakistan does not make him ' ignorant' .

and just because somebody is sitting right at the center does not make him ' wise '.


why are you sidestepping the main issues raised and trying to discredit the crux of the matter by referring to smaller peripheral unimportant facets of this debate ?

Off course.

There are plenty of ignoramuses in Pakistan who actually live here.

The point is to know about your subject before cutting and pasting $tupid and cr@ppy rag of a newspaper story.

Hope you see the diff.

 

[Supply&Demand]

Most of these neutral observers live 1000s of miles from the area of discussion. Heck majority of them have not come within 50 miles of Pak-India border (let alone visiting Pakistan).

A poor grad student from india stuck in a dorm in EU country or UK or USA cannot be called "neutral observer".

Why?

He is usually "ignorant" observer.

Making personal attacks to make your point usually does not work and much better is expected from a supposed 'analyst'...

anyways...if u care so little about neutral observers may be u need to suggest ur govt to stop embarrassing themselves and Pakistan by going from UN to US to UK and lying their a$$ off....because it is NOT WORKING...it is only showing the desperation of Pakistanis to end a conflict which they began without any exit strategy..which, come to think of it, is very typical of Pakistan...

On a personal note...its been a long time since i was 'poor' and a 'grad student'..

 

[FaujHistorian]

There are a few Pakistan experts in India who are well versed with the antecedents.

off course. No one can deny that.

My comments were specific to OP and the followup posts.

 

[Indo-guy]

That same leadership opened up Wahga border for quick import of the industrial units from India.

The same military / civilian gov made sure everything goes without a hitch.


I am not talking about some God-directed good behavior.


it is simply business and commerce between the country.


People like Chilany (and sadly most of the $tupid advisors of Modi) are stuck in the past.


And I hope at least those Indians like yourself would open their eyes instead of using microscopes looking for faults. Any faults in Pakistan, while utterly ignoring the big picture and good future.

The day , average Pakistani will realize the discredit that Pakistan army has done to its nation by turning India into perpetual enemy that will be the day of renaissance for Pakistan !!!


Till then good luck with Pakistan army fed " I will protect you from Cunning India " kind of brainwash ....

 

[FaujHistorian]

Making personal attacks to make your point usually does not work and much better is expected from a supposed 'analyst'...

anyways...if u care so little about neutral observers may be u need to suggest ur govt to stop embarrassing themselves by going from UN to US to UK and lying their *** off....because it is NOT WORKING...it is only showing the desperation of Pakistanis to end a conflict which they began without any exit strategy..which, come to think of it, is very typical of Pakistan...

On a personal note...its been a long time since i was 'poor' and a 'grad student'..

Have you heard from Modi Ji making bombastic statements in the last week?

Why this chup chup kharray hain zaroor koi baat hai.


International pressure works, every time, all the time.

No major international corp wants to see our region in the hands of ranting politicians.

Modi Ji got that message loud and clear.

 

[FaujHistorian]

The day , average Pakistani will realize the discredit that Pakistan army has done to its nation by turning India into perpetual enemy that will be the day of renaissance for Pakistan !!!


Till then good luck with Pakistan army fed " I will protect you from Cunning India " kind of brainwash ....

Look if there is instability (natural, political, whatever), that country's military will step in. if that country is not blessed with strong military, then a military from another country has to step in. It is just that simple.

No need to make such bombstaic statements against our army.

Thank you.

 

[Indo-guy]

Off course.

There are plenty of ignoramuses in Pakistan who actually live here.

The point is to know about your subject before cutting and pasting $tupid and cr@ppy rag of a newspaper story.

Hope you see the diff.

For your benefit . I quote specific points raised by @acid rain


Do give your opinion about these specific points .


@FaujHistorian

Come on Bro, you are naive if you deny...

1. Power struggle between PA and any govt in Pakistan.

2. ISI's proxies...including let and haqqanis.

3. Use of proxies against India.

4. Nawaz power deficit and his lack of control over the khaki's.

5. The ceasefire as a front to push infiltrators.....This when from musharraf to Nawaz to Zardari to bhutto have confessed to.

If one agrees to all that then one agrees with the article.

 

[nik22]

If you start off your analysis with such bias and prejudice, then you are already on a downhill path straight to cr@p chute.


The problem with so many Hindustanis is that they remain so ignorant about people who live few 100 miles (less than half day drive) from most of these anal-ists.


These guys will get F grade if they wrote such cr@p as 8th grader.


And yet we see this over and over and over well educated, well traveled (minus Pakistan travel) writing $hit in Indian news papers.

Then we have our loverly PDF brothers like @Indo-guy regurgitate the same $hit all over PDF.


And that really stinks. So I urge you to stop this $hit shoveling unless it is your family business. Then obviously we cannot stop you.


So please @Indo-guy don't assume that everything you see in Indian news papers is well research and well meaning.

First spend few hundred dollars, visit Pakistan, spend some time here, see if we are really the lost kids. Then go back and write your own views. instead of copy pasting pathetic terms and words.


Because it is not. Instead such articles are meant to spread ignorance and arrogance.


Thank you.

I would like to visit Pakistan. Indians who visit Pakistan always say good things. Same goes for Pakistanis who come to India.

What about organizing events in both countries. We find out how many people are interested in visiting each other county. Do a video chat for introduction and do the actual visit.

Members who live in outside countries and can not be a part of this. If they want, they can contribute funds.

There may be something good that can come out of this forum

 

[Indo-guy]

Look if there is instability (natural, political, whatever), that country's military will step in. if that country is not blessed with strong military, then a military from another country has to step in. It is just that simple.

No need to make such bombstaic statements against our army.

Thank you.

I think Pakistani nation needs to audit the good and bad that institution of pakistan army has done to Pakistan . just as it needs to asses the effect of radicalization and mixing religion with statecraft and Terrorism as state policy has done to itself .


Unfortunately this process must begin from within - any suggestion to that effect that too if it comes from purported ' perpetual ' enemy like India will be met with hostility and animosity that we are seeing now from your posts .