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Pakistan's Intelligence Agencies have failed to protect its citizens

Please listen to what the likes of Jamaat Islami have to say on media and you will appreciate that there is a very venomous and dangerous element which is the mouthpiece of TTP and actually supports their projected point of view and offers them all sorts of alibis, who is to say they do not covertly provide support?

These same champions of Islam had no qualms about destroying the environment of top class colleges and universities for decades through their violence...they have all the germs to be in cahoots with these rascals...they have always been implementing their own petty agenda via guns and violence...i dare say they are the fifth column support for this terrorism!

The trouble with intelligence is that due to a massive space given to the terrorists in the past and the promotion of violent and extremist groups like Lashkar e jhangvi etc. and lack of decisive actions by all concerned including the democratic governments of PPP and PML-N in the last two decades, the terrorists are not in embryonic stage but are rather in very advanced stage where they have penetrated many areas successfully.

Army too has its problems in changing gears and facing a group which uses the name of Islam and claims to be part of those Mujahideen whom we supported in Afghanistan long time ago, this is the reason why our COAS also has to emphasize to his troops that we are fighting for Islam and Pakistan...it takes time to turn around such things but it is not impossible...no matter what the former allegiance be...

I hope that the people start rejecting the likes of Jamat Islami and shun such people who use Islam as a weapon and are willing to side with the enemies of Pakistan.

Excellent post - echoes my belief that the terrorist attacks are largely due to the entrenched support network in our midst - thanks to a 'large amount of space' given to the jihadis in the past by the military in close collaboration with religious elements like the JI and JUI.

While I alluded to a nexus between retired military personnel and the jihadis on another thread, I failed to mention the third dimension of this not so holy alliance - the JI, LM and other pro-TTP clerics bankrolled by the Salafis.
 
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The bitter reality is, as soon as the situation heats up in IOK,

Ram Nam Such Ho Jaeyga.!!
 
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I would not say the Intelligence Agencies have failed us but our elected leadership has failed us. More importantly we the citizens of Pakistan have failed. We keep electing the same people to power. We just can't seem to get out of this cycle.

We are very impatient.... we want Pakistan to tansform into an economic powerhouse overnight with all our troubles behind.

We are fence sitters and buy into anything the press writes without thinking. Conspiracy theories are our specialty. If it were an Olympic sport... we would definitely have a gold medal. (Actually this makes me think of a completely unrelated thing.... Squash is still not an Olympic sport!!)

Do you remember people damning the Army for the Lal Masjid operation and defending the "terrorists". This reaction from the public only emboldened the enemy.

Obviously these are my opinions and you welcome to disagree.
 
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Please listen to what the likes of Jamaat Islami have to say on media and you will appreciate that there is a very venomous and dangerous element which is the mouthpiece of TTP and actually supports their projected point of view and offers them all sorts of alibis, who is to say they do not covertly provide support?
These same champions of Islam had no qualms about destroying the environment of top class colleges and universities for decades through their violence...they have all the germs to be in cahoots with these rascals...they have always been implementing their own petty agenda via guns and violence...i dare say they are the fifth column support for this terrorism!

Many countless attacks have been foiled and hundreds of terrorists have been captured even before they tried to do anything, however the sheer numbers indicate that these people have a lots of funding and are able to mobilize a large number of fighters and suicide bombers, they have been literally buying children off the poor and using them in attacks. The enemy is quite dangerous and well financed. To use tons of high grade explosives and plan well coordinated attacks is not something an average anti state rebel can do...this is not some rebellion...the intent from day one has been terrorism.

Army cannot do law enforcement and that is what we have to understand. If it is martial law then Army can do this but it is not and nobody wants us to go down that road...
So it is the interior ministry which has failed the most and to say that they cannot do anything or are not capable is quite a childish assumption, it is their job and they have the means...if they are not devising a coherent strategy then all the efforts are being wasted.
We need a sweep up operation in all areas of Pakistan via the police and not military, policing is the most critical aspect of defense against the terrorists whereas Army is the offensive punch against the terrorist safe havens...you cannot ignore either one.
The trouble with intelligence is that due to a massive space given to the terrorists in the past and the promotion of violent and extremist groups like Lashkar e jhangvi etc. and lack of decisive actions by all concerned including the democratic governments of PPP and PML-N in the last two decades, the terrorists are not in embryonic stage but are rather in very advanced stage where they have penetrated many areas successfully.

Too long have the police been subject to the whims of every tom, dick and harry...with such a setup in which there are whirlwind transfers and suspensions and the requirement to do the bidding of all politicians that that the Police has become ill equipped in its setup...no doubt the police is showing bravery and it has to be appreciated that even despite being the ridicule of our society and subject to all sorts of unprofessional handling of their affairs, the police still has people who sacrifice their lives.
The emphasis has to be on police reforms, practical anti terrorist laws and swift court proceedings against terrorists.
Police has to be made very strong as an institution.
Terrorists are not your regular criminals and special process has to be established to nab such terrorists and provide swift punishment to make an example of such rascals.
The system has to be fair but more importantly it has to become practical, jailing a terrorist for indefinite time is not an option...the risks are far too great...

Army too has its problems in changing gears and facing a group which uses the name of Islam and claims to be part of those Mujahideen whom we supported in Afghanistan long time ago, this is the reason why our COAS also has to emphasize to his troops that we are fighting for Islam and Pakistan...it takes time to turn around such things but it is not impossible...no matter what the former allegiance be...if someone is committing terrorism...he is our enemy, whether he is a former Afghan war veteran or prays 50 times a day does not and should not matter to us.
The resolve of Military is quite solid and even the sacrifices of the police shows that they are not simply running for their lives but are fighting...however as far as a grand strategy is concerned i am not satisfied with what the GOP has so far come up with and also what additional checks and balances have been created to monitor those who are supporting terrorists against Pakistan...be it our own residents or those foreign nationals who are acting funny...

The losses suffered are terrible and makes me very sad but the terrorists will not go down without doing such damage...that is the bitter fallout.
I hope that the people start rejecting the likes of Jamat Islami and shun such people who use Islam as a weapon and are willing to side with the enemies of Pakistan.

How can general public trust on GOP when US has control over two airports in Balouchistan and black water (Xe) forces are moving freely all over the country ????????

Kia ya khula tazad (munafaqat) nahi hai ? sohail waraich
 
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our allegedly unsophisticated enemy has told us an unsophisticated truth that we are all an easy target

these people are no Stupid, there are highly educated people in their ranks & shocking thing is there are 'educated' people who support them & give them a prayer of success in their hearts, there is STILL a soft corner for them.....
How do u expect them to stop this rampage, I mean they just blow every god damn structure they see
they have unlimited supply of Explosives, weapons & man power
I always think that from the hell do they get so much 'trained' man power...
& THIS MAN POWER IS ALL PAKISTANI :hitwall:

what a MESS we are in....

emo I respect your feeling, but I have a strong feeling that we are reaching the end. These attacks are desperate attempts before the end, and yes educated people of Pakistan supporting TTP is biggest concern.
 
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How can general public trust on GOP when US has control over two airports in Balouchistan and black water (Xe) forces are moving freely all over the country ????????

Kia ya khula tazad (munafaqat) nahi hai ? sohail waraich

One thing I would like to point out. The U.S. and Xe (Blackwater) only have "control" over what the GoP has given them. This can be stopped.
 
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Rich man’s terrorist



Blackwater USA founder Erik Prince testifies on Capitol Hill in Washington before the House Oversight Committee on the mission and performance of the private military contractor in Iraq and Afghanistan on Oct. 2, 2007

If it had not been for a sudden family emergency, Erik Prince, the CEO of Blackwater, now renamed Xe, would have possibly been killed in the terrorist attack on the Islamabad Marriott in September 2008.

According to a rare interview given to Vanity Fair magazine, Prince reveals that an accident involving his son in America forced him to back out of a trip to Islamabad where he would have been checking into the hotel at the very time that the catastrophic blast took place.

News about the newly renamed Blackwater and Prince’s exploits in connection with assassination plots in Karachi and impending drone attacks in Balochistan and South Waziristan have been proliferating in the global news media for the past several weeks. This latest addition, an in-depth interview to a journalist who himself once worked as a CIA attorney, attempts to detail Prince’s own frustration at having been made the CIA’s scapegoat.

The story of Prince’s involvement in a secret CIA programme, was revealed by CIA chief Leon Panetta in a congressional hearing in June last year where Panetta insisted that he himself had learned of its existence only a day ago and had ordered it to be shut down. During the hearing, Panetta revealed two names: that of Blackwater and its CEO Erik Prince. Both, he stated, had been heavily involved in the programme to conduct highly sensitive operations.

As investigative reports published in the New York Times, the Washington Post and most recently The Nation (US) have shown the CIA programme planned to target various Al Qaeda terrorists overseas by dispatching small hit teams made of highly trained special operatives. Not only did the New York Times release reports of the existence of the hit teams, it also asserted that it was Blackwater/Xe operatives who were assembling the missiles and often gathering the intelligence needed for drone strikes in Pakistan.

According to Jeremy Scahill’s report in The Nation these special Blackwater cells also had bases in Karachi and other parts of Pakistan from which they ran their operations. In the Vanity Fair report, Mamoun Darkazanli, an Al Qaeda financier, is revealed to have been taken out by the supposed secret CIA programme without any knowledge of the German government. According to the interview, a similar attack was planned on A.Q. Khan in Pakistan but was never carried out.

The cavalcade of controversy that has followed recent revelations regarding Blackwater/Xe are notable for the marked turn they represent in the nature of warfare as defined by the age of terror. In essence, they represent the implicit admission that liberal democracies, even those as strong as the United States, are unable to fight transnational terror without giving up the very core principles that define their ideological positions.

The democratic process, with the necessity of congressional oversight and the authority of defined legal parameters, all impose a cost on the speed and alacrity with which warfare can be carried out. Borders interfere, laws constrain and elected assemblies meddle, adding cumbersome burdens to national security objectives as defined by intelligence agencies.

Most annoyingly, transnational terror groups like Al Qaeda are exempt from having to contend with such red tape, leaving them free to pursue their objectives with impunity and speed as helpless democratic governments watch and weep. In the case of Blackwater and the United States, this story of changed warfare could not have been told in this way until after President Obama assumed office.

Until the Bush regime ended, the use of Blackwater, the embrace of legal limbo in the fight against terror and the refusal to let go of tactics that evade oversight could ostensibly be discarded as the tools of a neo-conservative cabal that was out to get blood based on its own imperialist goals. But the advent of the Obama administration and its ongoing refusal to relinquish links with such tactics has proved however that the shift cannot simply be ascribed to a particular administration. Indeed, President Obama himself has authorised at least three of these targeted killings since assuming the presidency.

Drone attacks have increased markedly during his nine months in office and he has refused to authorise a moratorium on extraordinary rendition. Finally, the recently authorised expansion of drone attacks into Balochistan, a continuation of the illegal regime targeted killings programme reiterates this point.

The emergence of this new dynamic reveals how the tools at hand are defining both fronts of the war on terror.

Groups like Al Qaeda, Harkatul Mujahideen and others use faith as a mobilising factor to motivate hordes of poorly educated, impoverished people to chase a transcendent reward in the afterlife. The global south, home to countries like Pakistan and Afghanistan, and heavily populated by miserable and war-weary masses provides an endless supply of potential recruits to further their aims. Poverty-stricken, they eagerly strap bombs to their bodies, their only weapons in their misguided quest for glory, and provide the low-cost fuel for Al Qaeda’s aims.

Meanwhile, the global north with an excess of resources and a dearth of ideology has produced private contractors as its answer to non-state fighters. Mercenaries such as those trained by Blackwater/Xe, DynCorp’s and Triple Canopy all mobilise with money instead of ideology. Like transnational terrorists produced by Al Qaeda, these mercenaries are bound by nothing other than the mission defined and the sum paid.


By not being tied formally to a military fighting force, they are unconstrained by the laws of war and by operating as a corporation they do not have to undergo the hassle of being accountable to or funded by elected bodies.

Furthermore, when governments subcontract their dirtiest tasks to them, they retain the option of denying ties or assuming responsibility — a win-win situation for carrying out politically unpopular actions without incurring the costs.

The new terms of the war on terror are thus being defined not by Obama or Karzai or Zardari but Osama bin Laden and Erik Prince. In being the leaders of the lawless frontiers where truth is ill defined and law merely an inconvenience, they operate beyond accountability and are untouched by political opinion. While one uses faith and the other money, the recipes of both are simple: they employ and operate the tools at their disposal to maim kill and destroy on a global scale. Together they have revealed the war on terror as a conflict of evil vs evil where good is either invisible or altogether absent.

The writer is an attorney and director at Amnesty International, US.
 
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Excellent post - echoes my belief that the terrorist attacks are largely due to the entrenched support network in our midst - thanks to a 'large amount of space' given to the jihadis in the past by the military in close collaboration with religious elements like the JI and JUI.

While I alluded to a nexus between retired military personnel and the jihadis on another thread, I failed to mention the third dimension of this not so holy alliance - the JI, LM and other pro-TTP clerics bankrolled by the Salafis.

Yes in the past there was a link between Army and jihadis but it was in 80s when USA was supporting them too , in your spare time do watch the move "charlie wilson war".:pop:
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Foreign involvement and aid to the mujahideen
The Afghans were supported by a number of other countries, with the US and Saudi Arabia offering the greatest financial support. However, the Afghans were also aided by others: the UK, Egypt, China, Iran, and Pakistan. Ground support, for political reasons, was limited to regional countries.

The United States began training insurgents in, and directing propaganda broadcasts into Afghanistan from Pakistan in 1978.[44] Then, in early 1979, U.S. foreign service officers began meeting insurgent leaders to determine their needs.[45] According to the then US National Security Advisor Zbigniew Brzezinski, CIA aid to the insurgents within Afghanistan was approved in July 1979, six months before the Soviet Invasion.[46]

United States President Jimmy Carter insisted that what he termed "Soviet aggression" could not be viewed as an isolated event of limited geographical importance but had to be contested as a potential threat to US influence in the Persian Gulf region. The US was also worried about the USSR gaining access to the Indian Ocean by coming to an arrangement with Pakistan.

After the Soviet deployment, Pakistan's military ruler General Muhammad Zia-ul-Haq started accepting financial aid from the Western powers to aid the mujahideen.[47] In 1981, following the election of US President Ronald Reagan, aid for the mujahideen through Zia's Pakistan significantly increased, mostly due to the efforts of Texas Congressman Charlie Wilson and CIA officer Gust Avrakotos.

US "Paramilitary Officers" were instrumental in training, equipping and sometimes leading Mujihadeen forces against the Red Army. Although the CIA in general and Charlie Wilson, a Texas Congressman, have received most of the attention, the key architect of this strategy was Michael G. Vickers, a young Paramilitary Officer from the CIA's infamous Special Activities Division.[48] Michael Pillsbury, a senior Pentagon official overcame bureaucratic resisistance in 1985-1986 and persuaded President Reagan to provide hundreds of Stinger missiles.[49][50]

The United States, the United Kingdom, and Saudi Arabia became major financial contributors, the United States donating "$600 million in aid per year, with a matching amount coming from the Persian Gulf states."[51] The People's Republic of China also sold Type 59 tanks, Type 68 assault rifles, Type 56 assault rifles, Type 69 RPGs, and much more to mujahideen in co-operation with the CIA, as did Egypt with assault rifles. Of particular significance was the donation of US-made FIM-92 Stinger anti-aircraft missile systems, which caused a small increase in aircraft losses of the Soviet Air Force.[52] The main impact that it made, however, was the change it led to in Soviet tactics – helicopters increasing stayed over friendly forces and limited daytime flights, jetcraft were forced to fly much higher, and other contingency measures were put in place.[53]
In March 1985, the US government adopted National Security Decision Directive (NSDD) 166, which set a goal of military victory for the mujahideen. After 1985 the CIA and Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) placed greater pressure on the mujahideen to attack government strongholds. Under direct instructions from Director of Central Intelligence William Casey, the CIA initiated programs for training Afghans in techniques such as car bombs and assassinations and in engaging in cross-border raids into the USSR.[54]

Pakistan's ISI and Special Service Group (SSG) were actively involved in the conflict, and in cooperation with the CIA and the United States Army Special Forces, as well as the British Special Air Service, supported the mujahideen.

The theft of large sums of aid spurred Pakistan's economic growth, but along with the war in general had devastating side effects for that country. The siphoning off of aid weapons in the port city of Karachi contributed to disorder and violence there, while heroin entering from Afghanistan to pay for arms contributed to addiction problems.[55]

In retaliation for Pakistan's assistance to the insurgents, the KHAD Afghan security service, under leader Mohammad Najibullah, carried out (according to the Mitrokhin archives and other sources) a large number of operations against Pakistan. In 1987, 127 incidents resulted in 234 deaths in Pakistan. In April 1988, an ammunition depot outside the Pakistani capital of Islamabad was blown up killing 100 and injuring more than 1000 people. The KHAD and KGB were suspected in the perpetration of these acts.[56]

Pakistan took in millions of Afghan refugees (mostly Pashtun) fleeing the Soviet occupation. Although the refugees were controlled within Pakistan's largest province, Balochistan under then-martial law ruler General Rahimuddin Khan, the influx of so many refugees - believed to be the largest refugee population in the world[57] — spread into several other regions.

All of this had a heavy impact on Pakistan and its effects continue to this day. Pakistan, through its support for the mujahideen, played a significant role in the eventual withdrawal of Soviet military personnel from Afghanistan.

Pakistan went to the point of maintaining a limited air war against Afghan/Soviet forces.[58] [59]

Soviet war in Afghanistan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
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The bitter reality is, as soon as the situation heats up in IOK,

Ram Nam Such Ho Jaeyga.!!

So you are waiting for killings in IOK, that goes to show how people feel differently when others are suffering.
 
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One thing I would like to point out. The U.S. and Xe (Blackwater) only have "control" over what the GoP has given them. This can be stopped.

Xe (Blackwater) is private force operating all over world under protection of US but have distructive and bad track record in Iraq and Aghanistan.Al Qaeada was initially under control of US and GOP during Afghan Jehad but with passage of time gain strenght and now no country is safe from its reach , Xe(Black Water) can be out of control from US government and involved in terrorist activities to gain money and power.It may also attack American national assets in future.
 
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Pakistan Intelligence agencies always saved Pakistan and they did not fail to save us this time…but when other countries dare to point our national assets we the civilians should ask the reason…They are doing their work but when did we protest against Indian or American allegations on ISI???

I do not completely agree that ISI is 100% pro Pakistani…well it is but there are certain actions which are not in our favor but on the other hand they are doing better than us (civilians)…

If some country has enough courage to dare our national assets like India or the United States does…than we should ask the reason….

They are accountable…We always think they are superior...don't know why...
I respect that West gave us TECHNOLOGY….like computer, Internet…..you name it…but it does not does not DOES NOT mean to interfere illegally…

anyways

It is vice versa
ISI protects us but when they are in hard times we should protect them


:pakistan:
 
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Intelligence agencies??There is no intelligence at all..ISI is busy in cheap politics,corruption and linking itself with local pakistani terror groups like LeT and Jaish-E-Mohammad thereby ruining pakistan's image on global platform...so forget about gathering secret information and cautioning people of terror attacks
 
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Not a day goes by that there is not another attack in Pakistan. We were led to believe that our intelligence agencies were among the best in the world. And yet they failed miserably to safeguard its citizens by failing to protect them from these waves of attacks by these suicidal terrorists.

Iraq, Somalia and Afghanistan have had less attacks in these past few months than what Pakistan is going through.

Pakistan today looks like Iraq of 2006.

I am just really disappointed in Pakistan's security establishment.

Pakistan is 3 times the size of Iraq. That means the threat has that much more population to conceal within and act. Similarly terrorism in India is even more difficult to track and hold back than in Pakistan. Its all a matter of population, potential support etc.

Pakistan is going through a very rough time but such intensity has a peak and it cannot be sustained by the terrorists. Sooner or later their support base will erode, or the population will become too hostile for them to act with freedom.

In Pakistan, the problem is that people confuse Internal Security (IS) by looking at the capability of their conventional forces. This is a wrong way to look at the situation. Army is essentially an entity that can buttress some of the IS efforts, but it on its own cannot take on the threat of militancy across the country by way of only conducting CI operations.

What is well established is that whenever Army is inducted in kinetic operations against the militants, the Army dominates and pushes the militants out. However beyond the kinetic operations, the police, paramilitary, and the law enforcement intelligence have to be brought up to par to take on and sustain pressure on the groups conducting these terrorist attacks.

This is slowly materializing as Pakistan has never had a need for such capability until now. I think we will see that it will take time to put such capability into place and in the course of this, we will see quite a few more lives lost unfortunately, however this is a steep learning curve and Pakistani law enforcement agencies are learning it the hard way. If funding is available to them then I think we will see results sooner, otherwise it will be a challenging task.
 
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The best way to stop the increasing carnage on the streets of Pakistan, at least in the short term, is to stop the terrorist attacks well before they occur. Unfortunately, however, the intelligence agencies which are supposed to frustrate the blood-thirsty attackers appear totally ineffective, even paralyzed. The agencies, including the Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) and the Intelligence Bureau (IB), are caught in a continuing power struggle between the civilian political elite and the military brass for control, even as terror strikes on a daily basis, claiming dozens of innocent lives.

Haq's Musings: Pakistan's Intelligence Failures Amidst Daily Carnage

Haq's Musings: Acquittals Revive Memory of Murtaza Bhutto's Murder
 
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I think this is the point where our enemies want to push us. Creating a mistrust and disappointment among masses. We easily forget all the sacrifices and some crucial facts here.

First of all it is beyond me how and why traditional enemies of Pakistan (Indian and Israel) will not be using this opportunity to create mayhem in Pakistan, (Time to revist 1971 quickly and role of India in that)?

Secondly, Why it is ignored that there are multiple player involved in this mess right from RAW to CIA including RAM,Mossad, Mi6, Iranian intelligence,TTP, local fundos etc.

CIA, MI6, NATO are just fighting one element in Afghanistan i.e. Afghan Taliban and despite all the resources of world which ISI can't even think of, what are their achievements?

Thirdly, there is a clear divide in security agencies and lack of coordination due to pure political problems. Minister of interior said "Four trucks of Indian explosive were captured"... Foreign minister of same government said,"I will not even name India until there is a solid proof"... Now this very clearly tells story why enemy (both internal and external) has so much freedom to do his dirty work in our midst.

Fourthly, after what terms Mush did agree to US no intelligence setup can work.Simple is that. Now coming to attacks on ISI buildings, Yes there is indeed some clear failures tactically. After Lahore incident there was not a single security protocol devised for agencies's premises. Enemy want to weaken the capability of ISI by eliminating as many operatives as possible. So who will be benefited with attacks on ISI building in Lahore and Multan?? TTP, yes but that's not the only entity that will get "something" out of killed ISI officers. Please don't make things that simplistic this WoT is a total mess.

Actually, it was tried under plan A when attempts were made to out ISI under civilian control... after failure of that plan now there is Plan B in execution and that is to make it look so bleak on face of ISI's performance that a local opinion about restructure intelligence setup can be nurtured. This is not a simple cause and effect matter. Men sitting in caves have all the maps, security plans of buildings and other vital information about attacks on that scale. No sir it is not possible for TTP ALONE to carry out all the phases of attacks.(Indeed most of trouble is there due to them) Internal help... well this is something which can't be overlooked completely but if we look back Pakistan denounced and banned militant organizations since 2000 and army did a lot of cleaning among its ranks. Even i include this factor for sake of argument (as there is no proofs of any links between TTP and serving officers) a foreign hand is still visible in picture.

One more FACT; TTP is not first and only organization in the REGION to train suicide bombers plus there was a successful raid by Karachi police in which Indian RDX was ceased ... Now try to look at bigger picture.
 
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