Pakistan’s identity crisis!

[Hiptullha]

That is where the failure lies, in an inability to control the outcome, something that was inherent as a risk when religion was brought into the mix.

Such dangers are definitely not exclusive to religion. A national identity influenced by language, ethnicity, and race face the same problems and problems have arisen in the past with those factors primarily responsible.

That may well be true of your opinion but the nation state that is Pakistan has come to be seen as defined by Islam.

That was the goal of the Bhutto government. Once again, the ideology is not to blame.

 

[Razia Sultana]

Lol
I changed my signature just now.

But what was oxymoron-ish in the earlier one??

Hmm your post does not make any sense. Not Pakistanis but Indians write about the things you mentioned, especially being arab or indian. No Pakistani i have ever met irl ever claimed to be any of those things.

Urdu is language of muslim invaders, well established fact.

At the end of the day Pakistanis will always identify with Islam over non-existant hindu identity. I advice hindus to first give rights to dalits before being obssive over ancient Pakistani ancestors religions which may have little bit of similarity with current day Indian hindus.

go to youtube and almost all existential discussion on pakistan is about the topics i mentioned above. in fact your rants prove what i wrote. Muslim invaders did not come with urdu language but it was evolved on the basis of the language spoken around Delhi and Lucknow with liberal use of arabic and persian words. The muslim invaders mostly spoke arabic, turki or persian.
When you say a pakistani identifies with Islam then whats so unique about yourself. Even I identify myself as a muslim but i am indian and there are many like me who are muslims and not pakistanis. And what about the non muslim citizens of pakistan? what do they identify themselves with? They are not muslims so they cant identify themselves with Islam. Your crises and dichotomies get exposed here that you keep discussing about it in circles.

 

[taimur12]

mehhhh!
use that as your signature

lol! mm maybe its too simplistic for you and you can't understand the deeper meaning. mmm k i'll give you another one. this is my own. original. inspired by carl sagan, but my own none the less.

"we are on a pale blue dot. in the middle of nowhere. with no obvious reason. for no obvious purpose."

That may well be true of your opinion but the nation state that is Pakistan has come to be seen as defined by Islam. That was inevitable of that ideology.

that is looking at the world through a toilet paper whole. very naive of you.

 

[Levina]

lol! mm maybe its too simplistic for you and you can't understand the deeper meaning. mmm k i'll give you another one. this is my own. original. inspired by carl sagan, but my own none the less.

"we are on a pale blue dot. in the middle of nowhere. with no obvious reason. for no obvious purpose."

.

Why do I get a feeling that my first signature actually inspired you to glean further into the subject?
Lolzz
You've not told me why you called it an oxymoron?

Btw thanks for the (unsolicited) advices and signatures.

 

[Bang Galore]

Such dangers are definitely not exclusive to religion. A national identity influenced by language, ethnicity, and race face the same problems and problems have arisen in the past with those factors primarily responsible.

Of all the factors, religion can be the most inflexible and regardless of whether other factors can produce problems, this influenced Pakistan's evolution in a manner that its founders hardly wished.

That was the goal of the Bhutto government. Once again, the ideology is not to blame.

Regardless, it is still a failure of the ideology in practice. As Yeltsin once said about communism - "its a pie in the sky" - doesn't work on earth. Same here. There is a difference of an ideology in theory & the ability to implement it in practice.

 

[Razia Sultana]

Lol
I changed my signature just now.

But what was oxymoron-ish in the earlier one??

I wanted to say that i like your profile pic and liked your previous signature.

 

[taimur12]

go to youtube

why not go to defence.pk? to read the scholarly noble laureate Harvard doctorate thesis?

Even I identify myself as a muslim but i am indian and there are many like me who are muslims and not pakistanis.

no shit.

And what about the non muslim citizens of pakistan? what do they identify themselves with?

they identify themselves as asian. then homo sapein. and then fish.

Of all the factors, religion can be the most inflexible and regardless of whether other factors can produce problems

yes. very articulate. research based claim you made. completely not a bullsh*t statement you made up right now, with no empirical evidence.

There is a difference of an ideology in theory & the ability to implement it in practice.

mind blown.

 

[taimur12]

Btw thanks for the (unsolicited) advices and signatures.

no problem young padawan. i was feeling like majoring in peace and conflict resolution. lol!

oh and i didn;t cause i thought you were being rhetorical with that question. i thought you found it ironic yourself and changed it.

anyway. your signature was something hippie concerning individualism. like don't judge me by my gender or nationality, judge me as a human and as a person. something along these lines. and you were posting about pakistanis needing to dig their deeper roots and you were debating this with an another forumer.

which is pretty moronic.

 

[Hiptullha]

Regardless, it is still a failure of the ideology in practice. As Yeltsin once said about communism - "its a pie in the sky" - doesn't work on earth. Same here. There is a difference of an ideology in theory & the ability to implement it in practice.

Communism can't be implemented. That's the difference. There is no such thing as a Communist society whereas there is no reason why there can't be a society guided by Islamic principles. What's the problem? Oh yeah, eventually, if the government is able to screw up the education system, make the mess of the institutions, encourage militancy, eventually, there'll be fanatics running around. Hardly anything to do with the ideology itself. You talk about an evolving ideology, but what other choice does Pakistan have besides sponsoring nationalism, an old and very divisive ideology during these tough times? What good will nationalism do when we've got problem in KPK, Balochistan and Sindh with groups agitating for autonomy.

 

[taimur12]

How come Pakistanis identify themselves as Islam?

i don't know............. maybe because they are muslim?

It has no defined culture, language, ethnicity needed to form a national identity. Mind you; being an Arab is not Islamic

yes definitely, people that are muslim in punjab definitely are arabs. they speak arabic, eat arabic food, wear arabic dress. their national identity is arab muslim. not pakistani muslim.

 

[Hiptullha]

Of course it is. Look at the state of Pakistani civil society before Zia's Islamization!

Look, if our early leaders weren't greedy, short-sighted, and acted in authoritarian ways, we would have never been in this situation. What we now have is a distaste for democracy due to Ayub, an irrational hatred of Indians due to Bhutto, an insurgency crisis spawning from 30 years of mismanagement by the government.

Our ancestors were of mixed race. They didn't live here since forever!

That's what some people seem to be getting at.

 

[Judge]

@Norwegian

Actually Pakistan is a country with glorious history. They should take pride in defeating great Alexander. However, the teaching of false history and false pride prevent them to do so as this would imply that theri forefathers were Hindus. False history teaching that started from the time of Zia ul haq has started delivering the result. People are coming out with their own version of History discovering their rooots in Arabs to which Arabs disowns. They have a Turkey Flag on their currency. As Hasan Nisar says, they do not have any attachment with their land.

What? Pakistan has the Turkic flag on their currency?

Why?

 

[Hiptullha]

Look at the wonderful state of Pakistan, dummy!

Hardly the failure of an ideology, but the collective failure of a number of governments.

 

[gau8av]

Its amazing how Indians know more about real Pakistani problems than Pakistanis themselves!

Just to be clear, I wasn't trolling there. Hinduism/Islam/Christianity/whathavyou... I don't care for any religion and hate all forms of religious extremists and terrorists equally but Pakistan seems to be in a vicious grip of these crazy mullahs and radical violent Islam.

 

[Hiptullha]

Pakistan went from being a secular republic into something failed Arab Islamic country. All thanks goes to the great Zia ul Evil!

I'd like to remind you that Bhutto was the man who included the clause in the constitution stating that Ahmedis were not Muslims.