Pakistan's Identity Crisis: Can it explain itself without India?

[Talwar e Pakistan]

Islam is our identity.Thats all.Pakistan was established for the Muslims of south asia.Anyone who came here in 47 partition is citizen of Pakistan,No matter what is his caste.Islam allows us to use the name of our castes so does the constitution of "Islamic Republic of Pakistan"

Religion only.there is nothing else to explain the existence of Islamic Republic of Pakistan

But Pakistan is the only country in the world history which is established on the basis of religion.other Muslim countries already existed even without islam,so they will probably exist even if Islam diminishes from there.But Pakistan never existed without Islam and probably will not exist without Islam.

Pakistan was founded on three grounds as explained here by the person that conceived the idea of Pakistan.

"I am enclosing herewith an appeal on behalf of the thirty million Muslims of PAKSTAN, who live in the five Northern Units of India—Punjab, North-West Frontier (Afghan) Province, Kashmir, Sind, and Baluchistan. It embodies their demand for the recognition of their national status, as distinct from the other inhabitants of India, by the grant to Pakstan of a separate Federal Constitution on religious, social and historical grounds."

Religious, social (ethnocultural) and historical grounds.

Religion here is just one pillar out of three. In fact, Indian and Bengali Muslims were never supposed to be a part of Pakistan, separate nations were designated for them in the original plan (Bangistan and Osmanistan) on the premise that albeit they shared the same religion, they were too distinct on the basis of culture, history and geography. It's also why Bengal is not in Pakistan's acronym.

No doubt, religion is important for national cohesion, but if religion was the sole factor that binded Pakistan, we would have fallen a long time ago.

The fact is that we are and have been geographically, religiously, economically, historically, culturally, genetically, etc... interconnected, we share all elements which define a civilizational entity.

 

[Talwar e Pakistan]

e histories of Ganga, Indus, Brahmaputra, Kaveri, etc are inextricably tied together

The history that the Indus region and the Gangetic region share is common between nearly all neighboring regions, it does not negate civilizational distinction.

 

[Talwar e Pakistan]

Himalyam Samarabhya
Yavadindusarovaram
Tam Deonirmitam Desham
Hindusthanam Prachakshate

Translation: 'the country which starts from Himalayas, the borders of which goes till the "Indian ocean" [Yavadindusarovaram] has been created by Devas [Deo-] and its name is Hindustan.'

Bārhaspatya was never a part of the Rigveda and this is a fabricated verse.

 

[magra]

The question is a simple one: can Pakistan explain itself without India?
there are two possible routes presented to answer this.

1. through ideology: not possible. the ideology of Pakistan necessarily refers to India.
2. through civilization (point of the video in OP): also not possible. between Persia and China, there is only one civilization, not two, the geography only allows one. any entity in this civilization cannot explain itself without reference to the civilization at large.

other options like religion either (1) come under ideology (a country for Indian Muslims), (2) are completely delusional (like Pakistan being part of Arab/Persian/Central Asian civilization/culture), or (3) are self-defeating (any claim about being part of an "Islamic civilization" , since India has more Muslims and it would include countries like Somalia).

There is another possible route for Pakistan's cohesion - shared history. However, it is weak as the shared history of present West Pak is only 50 years old. However, as time passes, it can get stronger.
With each passing generation, we already see that the cultural difference between India & Pakistan is increasing.

 

[Enigma SIG]

Indian's on Pakistani forums telling Pakistan that it can't explain itself without India.

Ye konsa gobar kala jadu hai BC.

 

[Talwar e Pakistan]

It is incredible some Kala eastern gangadeshis are trying to claim or interject themselves into the history of Pak zameen

Leave racism out of this discussion.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

The question is a simple one: can Pakistan explain itself without India?
there are two possible routes presented to answer this.

1. through ideology: not possible. the ideology of Pakistan necessarily refers to India.
2. through civilization (point of the video in OP): also not possible. between Persia and China, there is only one civilization, not two, the geography only allows one. any entity in this civilization cannot explain itself without reference to the civilization at large.

other options like religion either (1) come under ideology (a country for Indian Muslims), (2) are completely delusional (like Pakistan being part of Arab/Persian/Central Asian civilization/culture), or (3) are self-defeating (any claim about being part of an "Islamic civilization" , since India has more Muslims and it would include countries like Somalia).

Modern day indian Muslims have 0 in common with modern day Pakistanis. In fact indian Muslims have more in common with indian hindus and sikhs than they with anyone else. There is 0 connection between Pakistanis and indians of ANY religion.

 

[SIPRA]

Indian ideology was not shared with followers of Muslim league, hence West & East Pak geography was lost.
TNT was not strong enough to keep East Pak.

There was no so-called "Indian" ideology, to begin with. Yes, there was "Hindu" ideology, to which Muslims and, and later Muslim League, refused to oblige.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

The ONLY people who have an identity crisis here is those who think that Pakistan and Pakistanis have an identity crisis..........

 

[hussain0216]

The ONLY people who have an identity crisis here is those who think that Pakistan and Pakistanis have an identity crisis..........

What it REALLY is, is Hindus burning up that Pakistan doesn't want to connect itself with India or their idol worship

This is more about Hindus own psychological hangups then it is anything to do with Pakistanis

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Seriously, some people are clutching at lost straws here. Those that have had over 732 million of their people defecating in the open and who had over 4 million of their own die from covid-19 are questioning Pakistanis about their identity?..........wtf!!!!!!!!!!......... ..............................you people SERIOUSLY need to get your priorities straight:

At 732 Million, India Tops List on Number of People Without Access to Toilets: Report

In addition to the increased risk of disease, the lack of sanitation facilities also makes women and girls susceptible to harassment and illiteracy.

www.google.co.uk

Covid-19: India excess deaths cross four million, says study

Excess deaths - those above expected levels - are a measure of the overall impact of the pandemic.

www.google.co.uk

What it REALLY is, is Hindus burning up that Pakistan doesn't want to connect itself with India or their idol worship

This is more about Hindus own psychological hangups then it is anything to do with Pakistanis

But we have NO connection to them. End of.

 

[magra]

There was no so-called "Indian" ideology, to begin with. Yes, there was "Hindu" ideology, to which Muslims and, and later Muslim League, refused to oblige.

Ofcourse, as many Pakistanis, you try to justify Pakistan's creation by negating Indian ideology. That does not nullify its existence.

 

[Novus ordu seclorum]

Bārhaspatya was never a part of the Rigveda and this is a fabricated verse.

Why would it be fabricated?

 

[Novus ordu seclorum]

Modern day indian Muslims have 0 in common with modern day Pakistanis. In fact indian Muslims have more in common with indian hindus and sikhs than they with anyone else. There is 0 connection between Pakistanis and indians of ANY religion.

You have Punjab divided between Pakistan and India so there is more than 0 connection. I have seen an English translation of the Quran before 1947 with its preface saying published in Lahore, India.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

You have Punjab divided between Pakistan and India so there is more than 0 connection. I have seen an English translation of the Quran before 1947 with its preface saying published in Lahore, India.

Punjabis of india who have SOME sort of genetic/racial connection to Pakistan is less than 2% of india's ENTIRE population. So at least 98% of indians have 0 racial, genetic or cultural links to Pakistan.