Pakistan's Foreign Policy and Relations with New Trump Government in US

[AhsanAmin]

I really believe that Pakistan needs a very principled stand in its relations with United States. Common sense dictates that we need to take the following steps in order to ensure that we remain free from any possible and unwanted problems. In fact, these steps are for our own good even if we did not have any foreign pressure and if we take these steps, we would truly be better off as a nation.

1. Make every effort for peace in Afghanistan. Try to court Ashraf Ghani and promote better trade and industrial relationships between both countries. This is in better interest of both countries. Though it might take time for the sour relations to get better, any current animosity truly hurts both countries. Read something that I wrote on a related note. https://defence.pk/threads/pak-afgh...eration-and-the-role-of-peshawar-city.432522/

2. Ensure Americans and other nations that their right concerns about terrorism will be fully acknowledged and very properly addressed. If God forbid any act of terrorism in US or elsewhere happens from our soil, we will have to face bad consequences especially when there is an anti-Muslim Trump government in USA.

3. Leave Shakeel Afridi. Though it is probably very unethical but get something in return if you can.

4. Asked Jihadi organizations to stop all militant activities if any. Do not let any country point fingers at us by allowing the Jihadi organizations to continue their activities especially in India. It is both wrong in itself and also continues to hurt our image in very good peace-loving foreign nations and if such militant activities continue, many foreign nations do not support us on many right causes. There is absolutely nothing to gain for our country from the cowardly acts of going to Indian soil and killing a few innocent people or Indian soldiers other than presenting a barbaric image to good people across the world.

5. As the Kashmir issue is concerned, try to support them all over the world diplomatically. Try to organize a peaceful non-violent political movement for the rights of Kashmiris as this is the only possible route that can address and solve the Kashmir issue forever. I believe that militant attempts at the solution of Kashmir issue will hurt Kashmiri people the most and will weaken the right cause of freedom and self-determination and will continue to delay any possible solution of the problem. Read here what I have suggested as my opinion: https://defence.pk/threads/the-need...gle-for-the-solution-of-kashmir-issue.456454/

 

[maximuswarrior]

Oh bhai, in this world you don't get things you wish for that easily. We need to keep our policies aligned to our interests. That's the rule of thumb. If we are able to find common ground with the US on certain issues (highly unlikely) we can by all means talk about cooperation. Otherwise, it is a waste of time. Countries do whatever needs to be done. Look at Russia, China, Iran and the rest. Pakistan should be no different.

 

[AhsanAmin]

@maximuswarrior, I am not talking about any very special cooperation. I understand that we have to look for our right interests and here I am precisely talking about the very right things we need to do for our own Pakistani interest(with total indifference to any American interests) and I am willing to argue and debate that most of the points I have suggested are good for us in their own right even if we did not want to go along with the new American government.

And if some simpleton Pakistanis live in a fool's paradise that Americans would give us anything special in return for continuing the persecution of innocent Pakistanis, we have to know that any such American attempt is exactly meant to damage the interests of our own country.

 

[maximuswarrior]

1. Afghanistan is a failed state. Even after US intervention the situation has only deteriorated. Moving mount K2 would be easier than bringing peace to Afghanistan. Pakistan has done enough. It can't do anything more.

2. It is in Pakistan's own best interest to defeat militants. Forget US interests. Pakistan has already demonstrated that it has largely defeated militants on its soil. Zarb-e-Azb is a good example. Having said that, we cannot guarantee what happens on American soil. Yes, there should be cooperation on the movement of known suspects. That's all we can do.

3. Afridi isn't going anywhere. He broke the Pakistani law. He is going to serve his punishment. We are not in the business of pleasing others. A criminal like Afridi cannot go unpunished.

4. Cross border terrorism is a two way street. Indians are using Afghanistan as a launch pad against Pakistan. Their consulates are terror breeding grounds. Tens of thousands of innocent Pakistanis have lost their lives due to cross border terrorism emanating from Indian sponsored consulates in Afghanistan. If Pakistan is indulged in similar practices it needs to immediately halt, but we expect the same from Afghanistan/India.

5. Pakistan morally supports the Kashmiri cause. The ongoing insurgency in Kashmir is a result of Indian oppression and killing. Blaming Pakistan won't result to anything. India must stop killing innocent Kashmiri people and it might lead to peace and stability. Pakistan supports talks with India on the Kashmir issue. What else can Pakistan do?

 

[AhsanAmin]

1. Afghanistan is a failed state. Even after US intervention the situation has only deteriorated/ Moving mount K2 would be easier than bringing peace to Afghanistan. Pakistan has done enough. It can't do anything more

We are hostile to Afghanistan due to rising Indian influence there. We have to use tact and not believe in any knee jerk tit-for-tat reactions. Take it easy and try to stop any activity that causes violence in Afghanistan. We can certainly help in playing our role in steadily getting the failed state towards greater stability. If Indians have special influence in Afghanistan does not mean that we have to respond by direct antagonism. We are foregoing the opportunity of several billions in trade and industrial activity for our country if we have better relations with a peaceful Afghanistan. If we play tactfully, Afghanistan will slowly get out of Indian influence because we have natural strong ties(cultural, economic and trade links etc) with Afghanistan as compared to any (remote and more unnatural) ties Afghanistan has with India.If there is peace and we are smart enough, we are the ones who would gain far more from trade and industrial activity than Indians and slowly Indian influence will wane in that country as better economic linkages grow with our country.

2. It is in Pakistan's own best interest to defeat militants. Forget US interests. Pakistan has already demonstrated that it has largely defeated militants on its soil. Zarb-e-Azb is a good example. Having said that, we cannot guarantee what happens on American soil. Yes, there should be cooperation on the movement of known suspects. That's all we can do.

We are in agreement.

3. Afridi isn't going anywhere. He broke the Pakistani law. He is going to serve his punishment. We are not in the business of pleasing others. A criminal like Afridi cannot go unpunished.

You are being very wrong. He helped bring justice to one of the greatest terrorist. You say,"He broke the Pakistani law." Now give me a break, there are so many Pakistanis who continue to break the law and law never gets them since they are influential. Of course, law has to be upheld but selective applications of law on people when there is no other right excuse seem unjustified to me. He might have broken some law but what he did has far more good relevance across the world than any minor law that might have been broken. If we were a great law-abiding people, I might have possibly heard your argument. Here every other person breaks the law and still is given great respect in the society but we become so selective to application of law when it comes to Shakeel Afridi.

4. Cross border terrorism is a two way street. Indians are using Afghanistan as a launch pad against Pakistan. Their consulates are terror breeding grounds. Tens of thousands of innocent Pakistanis have lost their lives due to cross border terrorism emanating from Indian sponsored consulates in Afghanistan. If Pakistan is indulged in similar practices it needs to immediately halt, but we expect the same from Afghanistan/India.

I understand your concern. We must regulate the Afghan border and start a proper visa and monitoring system and control all illegal infiltration. And I am not being pro-India at all. I want you to be tactful in understanding what is good for us and I would like our people to respect dignity of human beings and sanctity of their lives without regard to nationality or religion. And direct infiltration into India is very wrong and gives a very bad image without earning anything for our country (other than satisfaction to some people full of hatred for Indians which really does not in any way help our country.) It has to be stopped. It also breeds militancy and sectarian violence in our own country. We must control it for our own good.

5. Pakistan morally supports the Kashmiri cause. The ongoing insurgency in Kashmir is a result of Indian oppression and killing. Blaming Pakistan won't result to anything. India must stop killing innocent Kashmiri people and it might lead to peace and stability. Pakistan supports talks with India on the Kashmir issue. What else can Pakistan do?

You are very right that Indian oppression and killing is the major reason for Kashmiri uprising. I am not blaming Pakistan for that at all. I am trying to stress that we have to understand that any special attempts at militant solution to the problem cause unfortunate loss of human life and continue to hurt the Kashmir cause. Kashmir can be far easily freed by a non-violent peaceful political movement by the Kashmiris that Pakistan can help organize in Kashmir. I will say again that militant attempts at the solution of Kashmir issue hurt the true cause and Kashmiri people's right of self-determination.

 

[maximuswarrior]

We are hostile to Afghanistan due to rising Indian influence there. We have to use tact and not believe in any knee jerk tit-for-tat reactions. Take it easy and try to stop any activity that causes violence in Afghanistan. We can certainly help in playing our role in steadily getting the failed state towards greater stability. If Indians have special influence in Afghanistan does not mean that we have to respond by direct antagonism. We are foregoing the opportunity of several billions in trade and industrial activity for our country if we have better relations with a peaceful Afghanistan. If we play tactfully, Afghanistan will slowly get out of Indian influence because we have natural strong ties(cultural, economic and trade links etc) with Afghanistan as compared to any (remote and more unnatural) ties Afghanistan has with India.If there is peace and we are smart enough, we are the ones who would gain far more from trade and industrial activity than Indians and slowly Indian influence will wane in that country as better economic linkages grow with our country.



We are in agreement.



You are being very wrong. He helped bring justice to one of the greatest terrorist. You say,"He broke the Pakistani law." Now give me a break, there are so many Pakistanis who continue to break the law and law never gets them since they are influential. Of course, law has to be upheld but selective applications of law on people when there is no other right excuse seem unjustified to me. He might have broken some law but what he did has far more good relevance across the world than any minor law that might have been broken. If we were a great law-abiding people, I might have possibly heard your argument. Here every other person breaks the law and still is given great respect in the society but we become so selective to application of law when it comes to Shakeel Afridi.



I understand your concern. We must regulate the Afghan border and start a proper visa and monitoring system and control all illegal infiltration. And I am not being pro-India at all. I want you to be tactful in understanding what is good for us and I would like our people to respect dignity of human beings and sanctity of their lives without regard to nationality or religion. And direct infiltration into India is very wrong and gives a very bad image without earning anything for our country (other than satisfaction to some people full of hatred for Indians which really does not in any way help our country.) It has to be stopped. It also breeds militancy and sectarian violence in our own country. We must control it for our own good.



You are very right that Indian oppression and killing is the major reason for Kashmiri uprising. I am not blaming Pakistan for that at all. I am trying to stress that we have to understand that any special attempts at militant solution to the problem cause unfortunate loss of human life and continue to hurt the Kashmir cause. Kashmir can be far easily freed by a non-violent peaceful political movement by the Kashmiris that Pakistan can help organize in Kashmir. I will say again that militant attempts at the solution of Kashmir issue hurt the true cause and Kashmiri people's right of self-determination.

Since we more or less agree on most points I'll only focus on Shakeel Afridi.

Just because other Pakistanis break the law doesn't mean that Shakeel Afridi should get a free pass. This man cooperated with the CIA in a fake vaccination program. Probably willingly or unwillingly, but that is beside the point. On top of that, he also cooperated with banned terror groups. This is not me saying it, but the government of Pakistan and security agencies. If this isn't guilty or breaking the law I don't know what is.

Yes, his actions probably led to OBL getting caught, but I'm not even convinced on that one. Quite a few reputable journalists around the world have questioned the entire episode. All I know is that Afridi's actions have harmed Pakistan's image and he is not remorseful either.

Afridi is going to be punished accordingly to the law. There are no ifs and buts. End of story.

 

[AhsanAmin]

This man cooperated with the CIA in a fake vaccination program.

Believe you me, there are so many people in our country who cooperate with CIA(for far wrong things that actually hurt our country) and get immense praise and status in our society and law is totally blind towards them. Do not single out Shakeel Afridi for this thing since I believe he did not have any bad motive.

 

[maximuswarrior]

Believe you me, there are so many people in our country who cooperate with CIA(for far wrong things that actually hurt our country) and get immense praise and status in our society and law is totally blind towards them. Do not single out Shakeel Afridi for this thing since I believe he did not have any bad motive.

Guess what, the others who are cooperating should be caught as well. Anyone cooperating with the CIA against Pakistan's interests needs to be punished. Even if that person is the COAS or the president of Pakistan. That's my view. The point I'm trying to make is that two wrongs don't make a right. We need to have some rule of law in Pakistan. Otherwise we are going to have Raymond Davis episodes all over Pakistan.

 

[AhsanAmin]

Guess what, the others who are cooperating should be caught as well. Anyone cooperating with the CIA against Pakistan's interests needs to be punished. Even if that person is the COAS or the president of Pakistan. That's my view. The point I'm trying to make is that two wrongs don't make a right. We need to have some rule of law in Pakistan. Otherwise we are going to have Raymond Davis episodes all over Pakistan.

I agree that law has to be upheld but I again believe it is a non-issue since law can be soft on people who break it for a right purpose. There was no wisdom in protecting Osama Bin Laden. He might have created even more problems in the future by repeating terrorist acts on top of what he had already done. I do not think Shakeel Afridi's release is a major deal at all.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

IMHO, let's first analyze the mindset of Trump for it'll be a one man show of arrogance, fury and hurry unprecedented in the US history. His hatred is unbounded for the folks who can't help themselves and foot bills for crappy jobs. Unfulfilled promises, and you better swallow a cyanide pill before meeting him. Haven't you already read AF one and F-35 tweets? His policies are all one 3:30am tweet away. Now, what will he do to NA thugs and their counterparts at D.C.???
With Russia in full fledged "payback" mode, US will get back to Pak. Then Pak can do their part of negotiation. God speed!!!!

 

[maximuswarrior]

I agree that law has to be upheld but I again believe it is a non-issue since law can be soft on people who break it for a right purpose. There was no wisdom in protecting Osama Bin Laden. He might have created even more problems in the future by repeating terrorist acts on top of what he had already done. I do not think Shakeel Afridi's release is a major deal at all.

I understand where you are coming from. You want to see a thaw in US Pak relations. Frankly we all do. It is better to be on good terms with any country rather. However, we also have to look at our interests vis a vis other nations. I have said it before. Where we find common ground I'm all for cooperation. Wherever we don't there should be dialogue. We have our own concerns and the other side have their own. If common ground can be found it would be perfect. The Americans do have a history of treachery and backstabbing. Especially under the Obama administration. We need to be careful with that. Let's see how Trump behaves.

 

[AhsanAmin]

I understand where you are coming from. You want to see a thaw in US Pak relations. Frankly we all do. It is better to be on good terms with any country rather. However, we also have to look at our interests vis a vis other nations. I have said it before. Where we find common ground I'm all for cooperation. Wherever we don't there should be dialogue. We have our own concerns and the other side have their own. If common ground can be found it would be perfect. The Americans do have a history of treachery and backstabbing. Especially under the Obama administration. We need to be careful with that. Let's see how Trump behaves.

I consider it as a different matter than you are suggesting. Even without considering any thaw in relations, I again believe from an independent human standpoint that there is no justification to keep Shakeel Afridi in jail. I think I will say the same thing that I wrote in my post#9 and you quoted in your previous post. Any improvement in relations with US might be an added benefit to consider.

 

[Kaniska]

Guess what, the others who are cooperating should be caught as well. Anyone cooperating with the CIA against Pakistan's interests needs to be punished. Even if that person is the COAS or the president of Pakistan. That's my view. The point I'm trying to make is that two wrongs don't make a right. We need to have some rule of law in Pakistan. Otherwise we are going to have Raymond Davis episodes all over Pakistan.

So is it not Pakistan intrest to catch OBL or you think it is other way around?

 

[Thəorətic Muslim]

And if some simpleton Pakistanis live in a fool's paradise that Americans would give us anything special in return for continuing the persecution of innocent Pakistanis, we have to know that any such American attempt is exactly meant to damage the interests of our own country.

Pakistan has more interests to have peace with Afghanistan, than say the US. But with the various groups in charge and fighting for more control of the Afghan government the ease Pakistan enjoyed during the days of the Taliban, a unified government, aren't here today.

"Ask" terrorist organizations to stop activities? Really.

Pakistan could have asked for the world, but now after 17 years almost it's too little too late. The public perception Pakistan has obtained as a "supporter" or "two faced" ally will be hard and cost years/ decade to shake off. And that was with the "old guard" in the Pentagon being favorable to Pakistan, the new 9/11 generation isn't going to be as favorable or understanding.

If I want news about Pakistan, 4/10 times will be Firstpost/ DNA India/ Scroll.in/ Rediff. What kind of news headlines will those articles have? Pakistani news media yet haven't established a presence online or amount the various social media outlets or aggregation as flipboard, buzzfeed, News 360, even reddit or quora.