Pakistan's First Coal Power Project Starts Functioning

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

Lets use solar energy to dry or gasify the coal into fertilizer.

Solar is weak. Americans never used solar when they battled Nazi Germany and Soviet Union. Coal has high energy density, reliable, cheap. Pakistan is at war with India. Coal is the right choice, not solar.

 

[CrazyZ]

This is a slide from a report given to the EU from Dr. Safdar Sohail Economic Minister GOP in 2015. Its shows economy of scale...if we increase Thar generation to 4000 MW, the price will decrease. Thar coal is the cheapest option for Pakistan over 10 year period, then Hydro power, then imported coal, then LNG, then wind/solar.

 

[Kabotar]

History Redefined: Engro successfully synchronizes the 330MW power plant on Thar Coal-------------


everything going to Abdul Razzaq Dawood,-------------no conflict of intrest here mr PM?

Where did Razzaq Dawood come into this? Am I missing something? Or are you conflating Engro with Descon?

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

View attachment 548246

This is a slide from a report given to the EU from Dr. Safdar Sohail Economic Minister GOP in 2015. Its shows economy of scale...if we increase Thar generation to 4000 MW, the price will decrease. Thar coal is the cheapest option for Pakistan over 10 year period, then Hydro power, then imported coal, then LNG, then wind/solar.

4000 MW is a huge power plant. By comparison, Pakistan's biggest solar power plant is 100 MW taking up 500 acres of space. 4000 MW will require about 4 million tons of coal a year, with the current reserve in Thar lasting about 50,000 years.

 

[CrazyZ]

4000 MW is a huge power plant. By comparison, Pakistan's biggest solar power plant is 100 MW taking up 500 acres of space. 4000 MW will require about 4 million tons of coal a year, with the current reserve in Thar lasting about 50,000 years.

It appears the bulk of the cost for Thar power is with the thermal efficiency of the power plant e..the subcritical CFB boiler and generation. My guess is that it is less than 30% thermal efficiency. This is a start but there is room for improvement. Using higher temperature boiler and larger plant should improve the thermal efficiency and lower the costs.

Why all the hate for solar. 90% of sunlight can be converted into heat that can be used to dry or the gasify Thar lignite. Its far more efficient solar PV (20% converted into electricity). We can use solar energy to gasify the Thar coal into NG and then run the syn gas in a combined cycle power plant with 60% thermal efficiency. That would lower costs as well.

 

[niaz]

View attachment 548246

This is a slide from a report given to the EU from Dr. Safdar Sohail Economic Minister GOP in 2015. Its shows economy of scale...if we increase Thar generation to 4000 MW, the price will decrease. Thar coal is the cheapest option for Pakistan over 10 year period, then Hydro power, then imported coal, then LNG, then wind/solar.

Many thanks for the info. However, this is only the fuel cost, one cannot ignore the cost of capital. Coal power plants are generally more expensive to build than gas-burning plants. A rule of thumb for gas fed power generation is that about $1-million per MW capital outlay is required. This would make a 660MW plant needing about $660-million to build.

Since power plant based upon imported fuel would not require investment in mining, therefore, mining capital should also be included in the cost of the project.

According to the report in the Tribune (quoted below), the total project cost is $2-billion including the mining. This translates into about $3-million per MW for a 660MW plant. When the interest on the capital is prorated to the power output, the total cost per KWhr would exceed imported fuel-based electricity. Nevertheless, substantial savings in Forex makes it more than worthwhile.

While one should not get carried away; I wholeheartedly support Thar coal based power generation.


Only part of the article

Quote

Thar coal may become uncompetitive if high cost trends continue

Financial cost plays an important role in project and product costs. About $1 billion of investment in coalmine is involved and an equal amount for the power plant, making it $2 billion.

Interest rate of Libor plus 4% has been allowed by the National Electric Power Regulatory Authority (Nepra) under project recourse guarantees and not sovereign guarantees. Under the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC), sovereign loans for the transport sector have been given at 2%.

There is no reason Thar coalmine loan of $700 million should not be at the same rate. Libor at the time of loaning was 0.5% which has now gone beyond 2% and may cross 3% in the near future. This will greatly upset the tariff which will become unaffordable and unsustainable.

Unquote

For full article:

https://tribune.com.pk/story/1753023/2-thar-coal-may-become-uncompetitive-high-cost-trends-continue/

 

[Muhammad Omar]

Sahiwal Coal Power plant was the first not Thar it's 3rd

 

[CrazyZ]

The mine and associated infrastructure is an investment in our energy independence, creates jobs, and adds to our GDP. Thar coal can be used by other industries like cement or processed into fertilizer making Pakistan more self sufficient and will pay for itself in time.

I'm sure it costs Saudi Arabia a lot of money to develop its oil fields, so based on the argument in the article they should't, because costs money up front and it would be cheaper to import oil from Iran...This argument doesn't make any since to me. If you have a resource, develop it and it will pay for itself.

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

It appears the bulk of the cost for Thar power is with the thermal efficiency of the power plant e..the subcritical CFB boiler and generation. My guess is that it is less than 30% thermal efficiency. This is a start but there is room for improvement. Using higher temperature boiler and larger plant should improve the thermal efficiency and lower the costs.

Why all the hate for solar. 90% of sunlight can be converted into heat that can be used to dry or the gasify Thar lignite. Its far more efficient solar PV (20% converted into electricity). We can use solar energy to gasify the Thar coal into NG and then run the syn gas in a combined cycle power plant with 60% thermal efficiency. That would lower costs as well.

They have GE's ultra supercritical boilers, which only 1 US coal plant has so far. Efficiency is said to be about 50%.

https://www.ge.com/reports/answering-pakistans-burning-question-ignite-lignite/

 

[CrazyZ]

They have GE's ultra supercritical boilers, which only 1 US coal plant has so far. Efficiency is said to be about 50%.

https://www.ge.com/reports/answering-pakistans-burning-question-ignite-lignite/

Thanks. Let's see what numbers the plants achieves in real operation. The numbers in the slide are projections from few years ago.

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

Thanks. Let's see what numbers the plants achieves in real operation. The numbers in the slide are projections from few years ago.

The US plant has demonstrated very good results. It was commissioned in 2012.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_W._Turk_Jr._Coal_Plant

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

According to this video the latest coal plants in Texas eliminate almost all pollutants like SOx and NOx. I suppose they use the same boilers are Thar coal plant uses.

 

[nahtanbob]

are pakistanis asian ?

The word "Asian" has contextual meaning. Go to dating website - Indian/Pakistani would not be considered "Asian"

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

The word "Asian" has contextual meaning. Go to dating website - Indian/Pakistani would not be considered "Asian"

So? They ain't Whites either.

 

[jamal18]

Asian in the American context is 'oriental'; East Asian. In the British context it's south Asian.