Pakistan's Declining Economy Since 2008

[RiazHaq]

It does NOT prove your point at all. If you go thru the report you will find that this component (labled quality of overall infra) is for all other infrastructure except roads, rails, ports, airports, telecom and electricity and is not a total of the same. Its more like Misc infra.

Please look at your data again. Not just overall, but in specific categories like roads, ports, etc, Pak is ranked higher. OTOH, India has a clear edge in railroads in WEF data, which accounts for the biggest difference in overall rank.

WEF Lists the following for the source on this..
SOURCE: International Telecommunication Union, World Telecommunication Indicators (June 2009 update); national sources

Here are my data sources showing Pakistan's higher levels of mobile phone and internet penetration in South Asia:

Bangladesh ranks low in South Asia mobile use : Dhaka Mirror

Asia Internet Usage Stats and Population Statistics

International Telecommunication Union - BDT

 

[RiazHaq]

Difficult, may be..but this also gives you opportunity which are not present in developed countries.
Grameen Bank in BD is case in point. The env in which they operated were very dismal. But they turned the disadvantages in opportunity. And I believe they are earning profit rather than doing charity. Last I heard they are working on providing pukka home and involved in telecommunication.
Another ex. is Sulabh Org in India. They are involved in sanitation. Not sure abt there current financial status.

I can give you other Indian examples but this might derail the thread.

My belief is that these ex. are rule rather than exception and you have to look around for opportunity.

I am a big fan of Mohamad Younus and Grameen. They are providing an invaluable service to the poorest of the poor. Without them, BD would be much worse off on its social indicators.

However, I do believe that microaid by NGOs is a poor substitute for public spending on health, education and infrastructure.

A case in point is Haiti, which has had the largest number of NGOs per capita for years, and yet it remains extremely poor and backward, mainly because of abject failure of governance.

 

[HariSeldon]

I am a big fan of Mohamad Younus and Grameen. They are providing an invaluable service to the poorest of the poor. Without them, BD would be much worse off on its social indicators.

However, I do believe that microaid by NGOs is a poor substitute for public spending on health, education and infrastructure.

A case in point is Haiti, which has had the largest number of NGOs per capita for years, and yet it remains extremely poor and backward, mainly because of abject failure of governance.

If you had noticed, I mentioned that they are earning profit. They are and I am not aware if they are dependent on donations. They have very viable operating model. I am not sure on what basis you categorize them as NGO.

I am taking Grameen bank as ex. for entrepreneurship acumen and resulting economic prosperity due to that. I care less whether they are in social sector or manufacturing sector or anything else. Its up to the common citizen to look for opportunity and exploit it. This will be +ve contribution in eco. prosperity of the nation.

 

[Justin Joseph]

I am a big fan of Mohamad Younus and Grameen. They are providing an invaluable service to the poorest of the poor. Without them, BD would be much worse off on its social indicators.

However, I do believe that microaid by NGOs is a poor substitute for public spending on health, education and infrastructure.

A case in point is Haiti, which has had the largest number of NGOs per capita for years, and yet it remains extremely poor and backward, mainly because of abject failure of governance.

Bangladesh is not Haiti.

Bangladesh's economy have potential and they are already leader in few stuffs and as they are progressing, a stable government they will bound to develop and reduce poverty if they do enough to tackle radicals with iron hands. They have sure shot chance to beat pakistan's economy in near future.

 

[karan.1970]

Please look at your data again. Not just overall, but in specific categories like roads, ports, etc, Pak is ranked higher. OTOH, India has a clear edge in railroads in WEF data, which accounts for the biggest difference in overall rank.

No doubt. Pakistan has significantly better roads and ports where as INdia scores higher in Rail, Air and electricity. Which gives india a marginal edge as far as ratings from WEF go..

Here are my data sources showing Pakistan's higher levels of mobile phone and internet penetration in South Asia:

Bangladesh ranks low in South Asia mobile use : Dhaka Mirror

Asia Internet Usage Stats and Population Statistics

International Telecommunication Union - BDT

I am sure each of them have different sources and calculation methodology and is difficult to prove one over the other.

However if you look into the ITU details, you will find that the higher cell phone coverage for Pakistan is offsetted by its lower fixed line phones coverage and the broadband penetration ratio.

 

[TechLahore]

No doubt. Pakistan has significantly better roads and ports where as INdia scores higher in Rail, Air and electricity. Which gives india a marginal edge as far as ratings from WEF go..

I'd be curious as to how they arrived at the "Air" conclusions. Airports in Pakistan are far superior, in general.

Airlines like Air Blue are also providing pretty much every technological and convenience feature the better domestic airlines provide anywhere else in the world.

But anyway, I don't want to make this a point of discussion. I just know from many conversations with visitors to India that they rated Indian airports very poorly.

 

[TopCat]

Please look at your data again. Not just overall, but in specific categories like roads, ports, etc, Pak is ranked higher. OTOH, India has a clear edge in railroads in WEF data, which accounts for the biggest difference in overall rank.



Here are my data sources showing Pakistan's higher levels of mobile phone and internet penetration in South Asia:

Bangladesh ranks low in South Asia mobile use : Dhaka Mirror

Asia Internet Usage Stats and Population Statistics

International Telecommunication Union - BDT

People tend to keep multiple SIM but after strict regulation on identity requirement and higher taxes, people are discouraged to keep multi SIM in Bangladesh. So does in India, they also have stricter identity requirement as far as I know. The better part of it is that you see the actual number of subscriber rather than no. of SIM.

 

[ramu]

I'd be curious as to how they arrived at the "Air" conclusions. Airports in Pakistan are far superior, in general.

Airlines like Air Blue are also providing pretty much every technological and convenience feature the better domestic airlines provide anywhere else in the world.

But anyway, I don't want to make this a point of discussion. I just know from many conversations with visitors to India that they rated Indian airports very poorly.

The way you arrived at this conclusion is humorous to say the least. Do come to India if you get a chance.

 

[sparklingway]

Why the hell does everything have to come to a bitter debate of India vs Pakistan.

The topic is "Pakistan's Declining Economy Since 2008" not Pakistan vs India.

 

[Trisonics]

I'd be curious as to how they arrived at the "Air" conclusions. Airports in Pakistan are far superior, in general.

Airlines like Air Blue are also providing pretty much every technological and convenience feature the better domestic airlines provide anywhere else in the world.

But anyway, I don't want to make this a point of discussion. I just know from many conversations with visitors to India that they rated Indian airports very poorly.

May have been, India is rapidly developing airports and just take a look at the number of non state owned aircraft carriers in India today.

According to Airports Council International,

Hyderabad Airport was Number one in the world in the category of airports handling 5 to 15 million passengers

The Hyderabad airport has also been voted as the fifth best airport worldwide.


The Delhi International Airport has been voted as best airport in terms of improvement.

And there was not one airport from Pakistan that made into any list

http://www.aci.aero/cda/aci_common/display/main/aci_content07_c.jsp?zn=aci&cp=1-7-46^35015_666_2__

India is changing rapidly, while I agree with you some of our airports were pathetic, its no more the case, all this has happened in the past few years alone. Not to mention a brand new spanking airport for Bangalore that opened a couple of years ago, Chennai and Mumbai airports getting a face lift. Cochin airport is also highly regarded. Other than this work has already started to get the second and third tier city airports to international level.

 

[MilesTogo]

I think now that Riaz has established that Pakistan's infrastructure is better than India, he should carry the debate forward and try to explain - Why a better infrastructure is not translating into better growth?

 

[SMC]

There's really not a great correlation in economic growth in infrastructure development. Infrastructure development has been happening steadily throughout Pakistan's history (although we lack in areas like electricity and water infrastructure), whereas economic development has only happened in certain periods.

 

[RiazHaq]

I'd be curious as to how they arrived at the "Air" conclusions. Airports in Pakistan are far superior, in general.

Airlines like Air Blue are also providing pretty much every technological and convenience feature the better domestic airlines provide anywhere else in the world.

But anyway, I don't want to make this a point of discussion. I just know from many conversations with visitors to India that they rated Indian airports very poorly.

The word used by Dalrymple to describe IGI in Delhi is "squalid".

Then he goes on to say: "In many ways the infrastructure of Pakistan is much more advanced: there are better roads and airports, and more reliable electricity. Middle-class Pakistani houses are often bigger and better appointed than their equivalents in India."

Indian writer Yoginder Sikand adds, "After all, the Indian media never highlights anything positive about Pakistan, because for it only 'bad' news about the country appears to be considered 'newsworthy'. That realization hit me as a rude shock the moment I stepped out of the plane and entered Islamabad's plush International Airport, easily far more efficient, modern and better maintained than any of its counterparts in India."

Haq's Musings: Foreign Visitors to Pakistan Pleasantly Surprised

In addition to better quality of airports, Pakistan has more of them per capita: Pakistan's 0.886 per million people vs India's 0.306 per million people

Airports (per capita) (most recent) by country

 

[SMC]

There's no doubt that the infrastructure in Pakistan is more developed than india's. Let's not discuss that part.

 

[Trisonics]

The word used by Dalrymple to describe IGI in Delhi is "squalid".



In addition to better quality of airports, Pakistan has more of them per capita: Pakistan's 0.886 per million people vs India's 0.306 per million people

Dalrymple is not an Airport Expert

Airport Council International (ACI).(The council, an international association of the world’s airports) has ranked Delhi as:

the fourth best in the world in the 15-25 million passengers

has also ranked the IGIA as the Best Improved Airport in the Asia Pacific region

You still try to fool people with your lies

Not one of Paksitan's Airport made any kind of listing, India had two ranked in different categories