Pakistan's Blunder Of Not Joining The Yemen War:---

[El Sidd]

but we are ISLAMIC republic of Pakistan
and its about safety and security of our ATM machine

Gods our ATM machine. he says he provides for all.

 

[Indx-techs]

The article is full bs and mess up of stupid prejudices messed up with self overestimation without thinking an inch outta bubble.
Laughable!! What happened to you Mastan? You used to be relatively sensible person.

I seriously think that is a statement that shows like something too much to ask---even to a pakistani military General officer in command---because most of their interest lies in housing schemes---property---commissions---war on terror & things on similar line & length---India---.

Agreed. Pakistani used to be richest country in subcontinent but its economy has remained stagnant in last 30 years and has led all others from India to Bangladesh & Sri Lanka to excel ahead. If trend continues, they all will become high upper middle income economies before Pakistan could even come across half way of a lower middle income country.

The there is the mantra of tactical nucs---. Well the problem with that mantra is that the super power does not like that mantra---. The religionist evangelicals in the regime want to de-fang pakistan---and the only people who did not know abut that was the pakistani military generals---who sitting secure in their offices believed their assets are secure---I mean to say the nucs---.

Pakistan was defanged as soon as its civil war began in 1970. Nukes don't make you a strong country, they are just one of feathers needed in your cap along with economy, conventional military and other things.

With nukes only and relying on them, you are nothing more than just an irritant like North Korea. World fears you but not in the way you think. They could bomb you harder.

They just avoid you thinking of you as a suicidal country.

What america does in front of everyone's face is that it keeps its enemies farthest away from the mainland---and keeps troops at out posts distant from the mainland and tells everyone what the reason is---yet the pakistani generals never understood it---the current pakistani prime minister does not understand it either---.

Rise of America is itself pretty much determined by their geography. They didn't do everything deliberately but they were lucky enough.

USA is only substantial country in Americas and was always capable of dominating others single handedly like Russia in Central Asia, India in Southern Asia and not like China in Eastern Asia who has competitions from Japan.
Americans were isolated from rest of world by large oceans preventing threats from external powers to a high degree. As their might rose, they spread around world like any other great power.

But they didn't choose their enemies and competitors as they already exist in East. They allied with a couple like Japan, became enemies with a few like Russia and had an always changing relationship with China & India. All to expand influence.

Most of humanity and hence great powers are in east. But we all are usually at tensions and wars with each other, neutralizing each other.

US doesn't have that problem.

Pakistanis in general have a belief---don't bother us---we will not bother you---

They don't. That's just temporary reaction driven by disappointment faced after a failure.
They wish to but Pakistan is too small for that.

what they tend to forget is that they have around 200 nucs that can destroy the world---

200 nukes can destroy world? Those even Pakistani linear implosion HEU based bombs?

So---the nation that does not know its own strength---does not understand what steps it needed to take to expand to protect its assets---has no understanding and concept of having military bases outside of pakistan at critical locations---having no concept of having those assets---is basically clueless of its environment---.

The country who knows its actual position vis a vis world and tends to project its power only proportional to its capability only bears favorable results. False of sense superiority is stupid. So is operating overseas bases which is too costly and nearly impossible for Pakistan without some foreign assistance.

And that was very obvious when the Yemen crisis started---. That was the time for pakistan to have understood what was at stake---what was going to happen---what was coming in the short term near future and what the long term future game plan of the opponent was---and then it should have gone ahead and firmed firmed up its grip on the region as was being permitted by the super power---.

The super power USA gave the region of the gulf states on a platter to pakistan---and the fools rejected it---. The terms used were---we don't want a war---we will not participate in a war---we are not mercenaries---even though all the conquests of the muslim empire were mercenary armies---all the great muslim warriors were mercenaries---payment was in loot and plunder---'maal a ghanimat '---.

They did similar fiasco to your country during Soviet Afghan war. You guys went busy with inflicting proxies like Taliban to neutralise Soviet Union which was beyond your capacity. Screwed your stability.

And wait, what were you going to have from Yemen war?

Why did pakistan not do what it should have done---was just to please iran---and what was iran to pakistan---a muslim brother---and what was pakistan to iran---a fcking inferior dark skin nuc capable country---.

Seriously?? Are you ready to have a hostile Iran at your border? Managing it with India alone itself has been very difficult.

What on the day US completely withdraws from Middle East?

Pakistani generals have sold the integrity of the pakistani nation and the future welfare of the country trying to side with a pariah nation---a nation whose sole and only purpose is to create havoc in the region---.

Only correct words.

If pakistan had a 150 K battle group in the gulf states---backed by a seperate air force---armor--- navy & transporation---the US would not be sending in its naval battle group and there would not have been any talk of 100K american troops in the region or the B52's striking iran---.

Your 150k don't make that much difference to Iranians.
Meanwhile, a single US CBG can't be deterred by Iran.
You would have ended up taking a new permanent hostility for gaining nothing.

When world's largest oil consumers and shifting towards other sources, oil is losing its importance, US trying to export its oil what it had been hoarding for decades, middle east will lose its relevance itself except a few like Turkey & Iran.

Nobody is going to stay there unless some other economic relevance emerges.

There would not have been any pulwama type attacks---because the indian power would have been neutered or lessened by the presnce of pakistani troops in the region---thus no attacks by indian air force on the night of the 26th---.

What? Pulwama episode isn't even remotely related to this.
How will Pakistani troops being in Yemen make any difference to India?

And wait, Indian influence doesn't even need assistance "permission from SUPER POWER" unlike you. We can hit alone and much harder than you would ever imagine. But issue isn't relevant.

India is the only real regional power unmatched by any country in Indian Subcontinent, Middle East, East Africa, Oceania or Southeast Asia and militarize and block any region around Indian Ocean.

A blockade that can only be challenged by so called great powers USA & PRC.

History & recent past tells us that middle east has dumped its Islamic brotherhood with Pakistan and layed red carpet for India when comes to national interests. Even if that doesn't happen, India can wage a war which ME together will find difficult to handle.
But that all's not relevant again.

The entire Pulwama episode spins India's changing attitude in its foreign relations which is directly proportional to its international standing and power.

If the gap between capabilities of India & Pak increases further, "aggression" will become new normal.
https://www.dawn.com/news/1437762

Unrelated
There are plenty of Indian defence enthusiasts who compare some characteristics to project India close to US, Russia & China. But India isn't there yet and government acts according to current standing. Same with case of Pakistanis who believe Pakistan to be a regional power even after not having any influence beyond its borders.
But establishment knows how it should act.

General Raheel---sir---you truly failed pakistan---when it was time to make some hard & timely decisions to move the pakistani military influence from outside of its borders and into the gulf region---.

Leave entire drama, just tell me. What it serves to Pakistan by involving in Yemen crisis?

I write this post seeing what is happening in the gulf---what the US military is doing in the gulf in the last few weeks and what their plans are---. Mastankhan

You think you could stop or deter them if you were there? Many countries around there are much stronger than you and they can't.

We already have enough influence beyond our borders.

Pakistan barely has any influence beyond its borders. Not beyond Afghanistan.

Case is different that involving in Yemen doesn't give any "influence" to Pakistan but some more unwanted internal & external problems.

Hi,

What friggin lala land are you living in---.

All your great muslims warriors were mercenaries---.

You and the likes of you are the enemies of pakistan---.

You are openly acting as dalal of Arabs who don't even care about the "Islamic brotherhood & warriors".
This inferiority complex is the reason why they could get influence in Pakistan for no reason.

Pak military could have gone in ---and who would have control of the region---pak military---and who would be kicked out---the indians---.

Seriously? "Controlling" that region on others invitation and logistics. And Indians.

We aren't there. We aren't fond of getting our soldiers martyred in others' war without any reason.
You could kick us out in what way? Could you even deter a single naval strike?

Whatever relevance you have is because of conflicts with us. US assistance in past & China now. Unlike you fanboys who wanted Pak to be involved in Yemen to invite permanent enmity from Iran, India rejected American quad and again improved relationship with China.

In case there's a strategic bargain between USA & PRC in long term, they together will screw India and salvage you again to balance India.
But in case similar thing is there between China & India, you guys are going to suffer in worse ways than today.

Foreign policy is tit for tat ,first let's get unconditional support on Kashmir from Arabs and get similiar package like Egypt , then send the army wherever you want.... we have no support in FATF. Old saying .................... ya shiekh apni apni dekh...
I think we people missed the recent standoff with India, where all arabs left us and say sorry. Only US end up neutralized the situation.

Buy us ...
View attachment 560768

and 40 billion package ....all Pak army they can use .

Begging with boasting!!

 

[Dubious]

Instead you should ask me what is Iran and GCC doing in Yemen?

We are asking this...GCC are Yemen's "direct neighbours" now what about Iran? Why is Iran in Yemen?

 

[HannibalBarca]

We are asking this...GCC are Yemen's "direct neighbours" now what about Iran? Why is Iran in Yemen?

One far away conflict is One less Conflict at Home/at the Door.

 

[BHarwana]

Dear bro , I am so sad after reading this from you.....Read my post again..
1st you did not answer any of my questions . 2nd those questions were their for you to answer in detail in your response(what you promised "about Yemen war") 3rd I said in other post (may be 2 posts before in replying you) that KSA and Yemen are next door neighbours …. And both are Sunni Majority Muslim Courtiers and both are Arab too and Iran is 1000s miles away..
My dear bro why are you not providing your own detail point of view which you promised yesterday @Dubious and @Khafee were their (both can witness that)….
And we are not talking about Iran in Iraq or Syria or any other country , keep that in mind... WHY not going into Yemen was a good idea ???????????? Explain in full details .. let us know all your point of view .

My friend what will my detailed point of view do?
Is Iran not involved in Yemen? Yes Iran is involved, can anyone deny that? No it cannot be denied. So what else you want to hear? It is obvious that civil war in Yemen cannot continue this long without foreign intervention.
Now what is Iran doing in Yemen? Iran is bombing civilians and doing blockade of the country so that people starve to death and making sure disease spread in Yemen. Iran has armed groups in Yemen which they are paying to keep fighting for them.

My friend if you can say that Pakistan should take dollars and go kill Muslims in Yemen then you can also say tomorrow that why is Pakistan in Yemen.

Pakistan army is not for sale or hire we don't fight in this way. If someone needs mercenaries they can get it from Africa India and middle East it will not be us. Just look at this discussion where you are trying to justify being mercenaries.

@CHACHA"G" please bro you know the reality neither Iran nor Saudis are innocent in Yemen so why side with any there? We are not for sale. USA can pay us more for Afghanistan than Saudis can for Yemen but we have our own direction.

 

[Dubious]

One far away conflict is One less Conflict at Home/at the Door.

very wise choice of words!

 

[M. Sarmad]

We are asking this...GCC are Yemen's "direct neighbours" now what about Iran? Why is Iran in Yemen?

Iran is not in Yemen... Just some unsubstantiated allegations by the GCC aggressors that Iran is providing weapons to Houthi rebels.

From WikiLeaks:

12. (S/NF) Contrary to ROYG claims that Iran is arming the Houthis, most local political analysts report that the Houthis obtain their weapons from the Yemeni black market and even from the ROYG military itself. According to a British diplomat, there are numerous credible reports that ROYG military commanders were selling weapons to the Houthis in the run-up to the Sixth War.

 

[Dubious]

Iran is not in Yemen... Just some unsubstantiated allegations by the GCC aggressors that Iran is providing weapons to Houthi rebels.

I think few members here actually did say Iran is in Yemen....

Their excuse was saving the population from dying at the hands of Saudi...So Iran is in Yemen as per these people...question goes to them! And also it is a question @BHarwana also raised that...question BOTH!

WikiLeaks

Not really the most reliable source

 

[M. Sarmad]

Not really the most reliable source

Still much more reliable than the allegations made/excuses given by the GCC aggressors to justify their crimes against humanity.

 

[MastanKhan]

And you think we are in good state to oppose the kings?
No we are good with not meddling in this matter.

We are fighting with terrorism, poverty, traitors, economical disaster. In our neighbors people like Iranian, Afghans and Indian exist.

Do you even realize, the crucial time Pakistan is going through? We can NOT afford wars or problems with our friends.

Hi,

The decisions that you make in crucial times determine your future---. No body has become rich in ordinary times---.

One far away conflict is One less Conflict at Home/at the Door.

Hi,

And one far away 'conflict' can change the fortunes of a nation as well---.

Pakistan did not have anything to lose---. We already had a conflict at home---. We were already in a WOT---head neck feet & torso---. We had already lost a 100 billion dollars and 80000 dead.

Now---here was our chance to make up for that 100 billion dollars---.

Here was our chance to shake lose and raise ourselves up and out of the poverty that we were and are living in---.

And as @Mangus Ortus Novem wrote---who did not want us to succeed---who did not want us to be better off---who did not want us to be a middle class income nation---.

And included in that group are our politicians---they are on the front line---.

 

[HannibalBarca]

Hi,

The decisions that you make in crucial times determine your future---. No body has become rich in ordinary times---.



Hi,

And one far away 'conflict' can change the fortunes of a nation as well---.

Pakistan did not have anything to lose---. We already had a conflict at home---. We were already in a WOT---head neck feet & torso---. We had already lost a 100 billion dollars and 80000 dead.

Now---here was our chance to make up for that 100 billion dollars---.

Here was our chance to shake lose and raise ourselves up and out of the poverty that we were and are living in---.

And as @Mangus Ortus Novem wrote---who did not want us to succeed---who did not want us to be better off---who did not want us to be a middle class income nation---.

And included in that group are our politicians---they are on the front line---.

I come across... two different side view but ultimately quite similar when it comes to Pakistan situation.
Both are willing to "sacrifice" what they shall believe in...for the common goal of "Development".

Now the Q, I ask myself and mostly shall ask others... Is...
On what shall a country future be build? and Will a pawn alike country really need to exist?

 

[zulu]

@Mangus Ortus Novem if we play our cards carefully who said about entering into Yemen war??
1)PAKISTAN FORCES WILL NOT JOIN ANY OFFENSIVE OPERATION OUTSIDE BORDERS OF GCC. Same stance we took on 1991 gulf war that time Mirza Aslam baig did that even against so called public opinion because he knows the ground realities
2)Those 150,000 thousand would be recruit and train from scratch in 5 years time so efficiency of our forces not reduce against our own enemies and all expenses would be bear by GCC including pension
3)In case of attack on Pakistan they will free to join the defences here as its part of our Armed forces
4)We can sell our weapons too esp JF 17 as familiarity is very important for soldiers.In case of need those assest are free to use for defense of Pakistan as well
Lots of others point too how much economical and political advantages it would give us Mastan Khan sahib again clear some in his last post also some very interesting point raised by AR Malik sahib.Such setup is also advantageous of Iran too how??Pakistan got proven record with both parties of good intetions and steps better to deal with us rather than USA who currently itching to open war.In such situation we can push both parties to tobale to talk (as got leverage ) without this leverage we become just bystander so yah @CHACHA"G" that so called neutrality position not become harmful for us but for whole region

 

[HAIDER]

Sir with respect Pakistan trains for desert warfare and this was a chance to reduce the casualties of Yemen conflict. You are giving a lot of reasons against the option of Pakistan siding with KSA but most of these reasons are .. I am trying to look for a polite word...
Without real substance they look like baseless excuses

I have no problem, if PA can bear the brunt go for it. Stop thinking that PA is invincible . Already very well trained French, British and Columbia contractors working with Arab coalition and result is zero.

 

[zulu]

As Mastan Khan cleared in his last post until we become strong and self independent economically we have to make some hard choices for future of Pakistan using all resources and options available.Its game of geo politicas too so there is no perfect good or bad choices everything gots its own pros and cons only choices left is selecting which one

I come across... two different side view but ultimately quite similar when it comes to Pakistan situation.
Both are willing to "sacrifice" what they shall believe in...for the common goal of "Development".

Now the Q, I ask myself and mostly shall ask others... Is... On what shall a country future be build? and Will a pawn alike country really need to exist?

 

[HAIDER]

Well we all know why this offer was not taken by Pakistan. Who is supporting Houthis?

why you want to send Pakistan army ? ...question remains ... If US and NATO has zero interest what we going to earn. against who we going to get strategic depth, when these gulf on one side US,British and Chinese fleet station then further west Turkish fleet stationed. what is the role of pakistan and how they control the yemen. what is the obsession with yemen ?

read it and think, what can be the role of pakistan
https://sipri.org/sites/default/files/2019-04/sipribp1904.pdf