Pakistan's Artillery Upgrade Discussions

[MystryMan]

True but the tank 125mm SBG are imported

They are made at peoples steel mills?

 

[Cool_Soldier]

All assets are great indeed

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

True but the tank 125mm SBG are imported

They are made at peoples steel mills?

Blanks were imported from france ... BUT HIT came up with an indigenous gun back in 2011:

http://www.hit.gov.pk/gun barrel 125mm.html
Gun Factory has the capability of producing barrels ranging 105mm to 203mm caliber. It has a long standing experience in manufacture of 105mm Gun Barrel for upgraded T-59 & T-69 IIMP tanks and 125mm Guns/Barrels for the ongoing programmes of Tank Al-Khalid and Al-Zarrar. The auto frettaged barrels are manufactured fro very high quality electro slag refined steel. Each barrel is processed through precision machining operations and subjected to stringten control parameters.




http://www.hit.gov.pk/gun-f.html


Gun Factory is an ISO certified factory which was established during 1992. Initially only 105 mm rifled bore tank gun barrel was machined in the factory but with enhancement of skill and absorption of modern state of the art technology Gun Factory is now capable to produce 125 mm smooth bore autofrettaged chrome plated tank gun.



Locally-produced gun delivered to HIT for tanks
FROM THE NEWSPAPERPUBLISHED APR 17, 2011 11:22PM


ISLAMABAD, April 17: The first locally-produced tank gun is ready for delivery to the Heavy Industries Taxila (HIT) for Al-Khalid and Al-Zarar tanks.

So far the HIT used to get 125 millimetre 'blanks' from France for the two main battle tanks (MBTs) of the Pakistan Army. Blanks are the final shape of the gun barrel prior to its finishing and its fitting into the tank is done at the HIT.


The first blank has been jointly produced at the Heavy Mechanical Complex (HMC) in Taxila by experts of the HIT, the Peoples Steel Mills Limited (PSML) of Karachi and other defence-related organisations, in coordination with the army -- the end-user.

An HIT official told Dawn that the army had given a go-ahead for the production of 50 125mm barrels for the two MBTs at the HMC after a joint team assured it of meeting strict standards.

According to sources, the army and the HIT wanted the barrels to fire at least eight rounds a minute, and for the automatic ammunition handling system, with 24-round ready-to-fire magazine of Al-Khalid tank.

The official said that the manufacturing of the first 125mm tank gun was an achievement of the Strategic Plans Division (SPD) set up in 2000 to improve the control of nuclear operations and monitor and develop coordination among various defence production and research organisations in the country.

The specialised weapons grade steel was manufactured at the PSML and the block of metal was retreated at the HMC which has such facilities under the heavy forge and foundry section. The block of specialised metal is pressed to become a five-metre-long square bar that is forged into a smooth bore 125mm barrel.

The HMC also has specialised facilities of large vertical furnace where the blanks are given heat treatments several times. Since it was the first job for the HMC, experts from other defence organisations monitored the process which took almost two to three months to complete.

The HIT has finalised a deal Rs200 million for 50 barrels which is slightly less than the cost of each barrel procured from France.

The official said that after the completion of 50 tank barrels, the HMC would consider producing artillery guns for the Pakistan Army.

Al-Khalid is a product of a joint venture between Pakistan and China. It has been in use of the army since 2001. Al-Zarar is an upgradation of T-59 tanks. The new barrels are likely to be part of the project for upgraded variants of Al-Khalid II and III now under way at the HIT.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

No sir we did acquired some units of SH1 (can be conformed by SIPRI as well/not basing the argument on that alone. ) and Panter (the Turkish towed artillery) While the reviews of Panter have been exceptionally BAD the SH1 are just OK. The interest in these two new systems T5 and Nora B52 is because they both offer MUCH more than SH1 does (again, MRSI being one key feature here). Also there is a more than decent demand (500 units) so we are looking at all our options and that is how it should be.

Korkut is for AD duties obviously but i am not aware of that development. However about ALIT we are already operating LY-80 and FN series MANPADS.




Actually SH1, though not as good as predicted or hoped for are still working in a very limited number (this part i am sure about, the number is 36 i believe but not sure about this). Panter are reportedly getting rust (we bought a few of those as well, one example can be seen at artillery school Nowshera). Both turned out to be not up to the mark. The interested in new SPH is on a large part dependent on this fact as well as the fact that the new options come with lots of goodies and that we are looking for a very decent number so it means it is wise to reevaluate all the options.

According to the Turkish media, Panter is already being put into action by the Turkish army. Have they made improvements since the ones available in Pak?

MKEK Boran





No, it did not.

The first howitzer was handed over to the Nowshera-based School of Artillery in September 2007. ISPR Press Release said an MoU was signed with Turkey to co-produce the Panter.

Simulators were also acquired.

http://www.ssm.gov.tr/urunkatalog/

According to a 2013 Defense News article:



SIPRI reported direct purchase of 12 & local production of 60 Panter's.

@Bilal Khan (Quwa)



Your info about SH-1 is wrong. SIPRI removed the SH-1 info (a year after it was added).

Well, I must ask. Is the rust news from a reliable source or not ?



Both were tested.

Reportedly,the SH-1 was tested in December 2007 in GB. Desert trials followed in June 2008. It was again tested in 2013-2014 & rejected (for the second time). No SH-1 was ordered.

Panter's are in service.

Teshekkurlar Arkadashim!! Relieved!!!

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Serbia is developing ALAS and SPIDER missiles. ALAS is ground to ground, or sea to ground missile, and SPIDER can be also fired from the helicopters. You should know that MANPAD is short from MAN Portable Air Defense system. ALAS and SPIDER are not air defence systems. And they are not meant to be carried by a single soldier, both those rockets are to big for something like that.

Good to see the Serb folks back into weapons manufacturing business!!! They were very good during Tito's time. Sorry to be back to the past!!!

 

[fatman17]

1: M110 SPH 203mm
2: M109-A2 SPH 155mm
3: M-198 Howitzer 155mm
4: M114 Howitzer 155mm
5: Type 60 Howitzer 122mm
6: D-30 Howitzer 122mm

Chinese copy of D30

 

[fatman17]

Blanks were imported from france ... BUT HIT came up with an indigenous gun back in 2011:

http://www.hit.gov.pk/gun barrel 125mm.html
Gun Factory has the capability of producing barrels ranging 105mm to 203mm caliber. It has a long standing experience in manufacture of 105mm Gun Barrel for upgraded T-59 & T-69 IIMP tanks and 125mm Guns/Barrels for the ongoing programmes of Tank Al-Khalid and Al-Zarrar. The auto frettaged barrels are manufactured fro very high quality electro slag refined steel. Each barrel is processed through precision machining operations and subjected to stringten control parameters.




http://www.hit.gov.pk/gun-f.html


Gun Factory is an ISO certified factory which was established during 1992. Initially only 105 mm rifled bore tank gun barrel was machined in the factory but with enhancement of skill and absorption of modern state of the art technology Gun Factory is now capable to produce 125 mm smooth bore autofrettaged chrome plated tank gun.



Locally-produced gun delivered to HIT for tanks
FROM THE NEWSPAPERPUBLISHED APR 17, 2011 11:22PM


ISLAMABAD, April 17: The first locally-produced tank gun is ready for delivery to the Heavy Industries Taxila (HIT) for Al-Khalid and Al-Zarar tanks.

So far the HIT used to get 125 millimetre 'blanks' from France for the two main battle tanks (MBTs) of the Pakistan Army. Blanks are the final shape of the gun barrel prior to its finishing and its fitting into the tank is done at the HIT.


The first blank has been jointly produced at the Heavy Mechanical Complex (HMC) in Taxila by experts of the HIT, the Peoples Steel Mills Limited (PSML) of Karachi and other defence-related organisations, in coordination with the army -- the end-user.

An HIT official told Dawn that the army had given a go-ahead for the production of 50 125mm barrels for the two MBTs at the HMC after a joint team assured it of meeting strict standards.

According to sources, the army and the HIT wanted the barrels to fire at least eight rounds a minute, and for the automatic ammunition handling system, with 24-round ready-to-fire magazine of Al-Khalid tank.

The official said that the manufacturing of the first 125mm tank gun was an achievement of the Strategic Plans Division (SPD) set up in 2000 to improve the control of nuclear operations and monitor and develop coordination among various defence production and research organisations in the country.

The specialised weapons grade steel was manufactured at the PSML and the block of metal was retreated at the HMC which has such facilities under the heavy forge and foundry section. The block of specialised metal is pressed to become a five-metre-long square bar that is forged into a smooth bore 125mm barrel.

The HMC also has specialised facilities of large vertical furnace where the blanks are given heat treatments several times. Since it was the first job for the HMC, experts from other defence organisations monitored the process which took almost two to three months to complete.

The HIT has finalised a deal Rs200 million for 50 barrels which is slightly less than the cost of each barrel procured from France.

The official said that after the completion of 50 tank barrels, the HMC would consider producing artillery guns for the Pakistan Army.

Al-Khalid is a product of a joint venture between Pakistan and China. It has been in use of the army since 2001. Al-Zarar is an upgradation of T-59 tanks. The new barrels are likely to be part of the project for upgraded variants of Al-Khalid II and III now under way at the HIT.

Certainly news to me but now that the steel mill is shut, it seems back to square one.

 

[Arsalan]

According to the Turkish media, Panter is already being put into action by the Turkish army. Have they made improvements since the ones available in Pak?



Teshekkurlar Arkadashim!! Relieved!!!

May be they did made those improvements, may be it was just our conditions that hampered the performance of Panters!!

 

[fatman17]

Land Platforms

Enhanced capability for WMA029 mortar system

Christopher F Foss, London - IHS Jane's International Defence Review

23 March 2017

The WMA029 (PLL-05) SPHM is capable of operating with two guided mortar bombs. Source: Christopher F Foss

China North Industries Corporation's (NORINCO's) WMA029 6x6 self-propelled howitzer-mortar (SPHM) has been qualified to operate with at least two 120 mm guided mortar bombs: the GP120 and GP120A.

The use of the guided munitions is intended to provide the 120 mm rifled main gun with an enhanced precision effect.

The GP120 (also referred to as the GP4) is a terminal corrected 120 mm mortar bomb; it is 1,080 mm long, weighs 18 kg, and is used in conjunction with a normal clip on mortar propelling charge system. Terminal correction is achieved during the final stages using impulse thrusters located near the mortar bomb's centre of gravity.

According to NORINCO the GP120 has a minimum range of 1 km and a maximum range of 6 km. It is claimed to have a circular error probable (CEP) of not more than 5 m.

The GP120A (also referred to as GP9) utilises semi-active laser (SAL) guidance and like the GP120 also has the standard clip-on change system.

In this case terminal correction is achieved during flight via four flip-out control fins located further forward than the thrusters used in the GP120.

Terminal correction for the GP120 is undertaken during the final stages using impulse thrusters located near the mortar bomb's centre of gravity. (Christopher F Foss)

The GP120A has an overall length of 980 mm and a launch weight of 20 kg; NORINCO is quoting a minimum range of 2 km and a maximum range of 7.5 km. It is designed to engage stationary and moving targets, and has a claimed hit probability against moving vehicles of 90% when the target is moving at a speed of less than 36 km/h.

In order to designate the target, the GP120A is used in conjunction with either the Laser Target Designator Rangefinder (LTDR OL1), which has a maximum range of 5 km, or the LTDR 0L2 (7.5 km).

It is understood that Chinese industry has also developed a 120 mm mortar bomb carrying two top attack anti-armour submunitions, similar to that used in a 155 mm artillery projectile.

Pakistan Army has a long standing requirement for a mobile 120mm mobile system.

 

[Thorough Pro]

watch the full vid, it gives details of all guns

View attachment 385651
@fatman17 @DESERT FIGHTER which artillery piece is this. It's a little hard to see. If I had to guess it looks a lot like the Panter.

 

[fatman17]

M110 is obsolete. should be put in reserve.

 

[Arsalan]

True but the tank 125mm SBG are imported

Sir, sorry to contradict you but the barrels are being made in Pakistan for some years now. I am sure of at least 3 batches of 50 barrels each made at a factory in taxila. That is when dad retired and we moved to Faisalabad. So while i cannot vouch for on going production but i can confirm that they were being made in Pakistan and it is likely that they still are.

 

[fatman17]

Land Platforms

MKEK develops new SP artillery system

Christopher F Foss, London - IHS Jane's International Defence Review

07 April 2017

Turkey's Makina ve Kimya Endustrisi Kurumu (MKEK) is developing a 155 mm self-propelled (SP) artillery system based on a 6x6 cross-country chassis.

Scale model of the Turkish 155 mm self-propelled artillery system, based on a 6x6 cross-country chassis, with stabiliser lowered at the rear. (Christopher F Foss)

The vehicle mounts the 155 mm/52 calibre ordnance taken from the MKEK Panter towed artillery system at its rear. Panter is in service with the Turkish Land Forces Command (TLFC).

The system has a gross vehicle weight of 20 tonnes and is powered by a diesel developing 473 hp coupled to an automatic transmission. This gives a maximum road speed of 60 km/h with a range of 600 km. The vehicle has a fully enclosed four-door forward control cab.

The 155 mm/52 calibre weapon is fitted with a muzzle brake with elevation and traverse being powered with manual back-up. Like other systems of this type, when deployed in the firing position a large spade is lowered at the rear.

The maximum range depends on the 155 mm projectile/charge combination. It is stated as being 39 km when firing the locally developed MKEK 155 mm high-explosive extended range (HE ER) Mod 274 projectile. This has a TNT filling and weighs 45.35 kg complete with lifting plug, and has a maximum muzzle velocity of 945 m/s.

When firing the older US 155 mm M107 HE projectile a maximum range of 18.5 km is claimed. It can also fire the 155 mm M549A1 HE rocket-assisted projectile (RAP) out to a claimed maximum range of 30 km.

A flick rammer is installed to increase the rate of fire and reduce crew fatigue. A maximum rate of fire of six 155 mm rounds per minute can be achieved.

MKEK (Mechanical and Chemical Industries Corporation) has extensive experience in the design, development, and production of barrels, including 105 mm and 120 mm tank barrels and 155 mm 39/calibre and 152/52 calibre artillery barrels. The latter are for the Panther 155 mm/52 calibre towed artillery system and Firtina 155 mm/52 calibre tracked SP artillery system used by the TLFC.

 

[Zarvan]

So guys what happened to those trials which were taking place of Truck Mounted Artillery Guns ?

 

[fatman17]

So guys what happened to those trials which were taking place of Truck Mounted Artillery Guns ?

You mean the serbian and south African guns. no further news except that the serbian gun may have the inside track but with the defence collaboration agreement with RSA, things could change.