Pakistan's Artillery Upgrade Discussions

[Arsalan]

Norinco SH-1 badly failed Pakistan Army trials. Reports mentioning sale of 90 howitzers to Pakistan are wrong.



There are rumours that PA is raising two new mechanized divisions. If true, most of the 500 SP howitzers to be acquired will go to these divisions.

Korkut SPAAG will be in Pakistan for trials according to Turkish officials.
There are also unconfirmed reports that Aerospace Long-March International (China) has offered an AD system to Pak.

No sir we did acquired some units of SH1 (can be conformed by SIPRI as well/not basing the argument on that alone. ) and Panter (the Turkish towed artillery) While the reviews of Panter have been exceptionally BAD the SH1 are just OK. The interest in these two new systems T5 and Nora B52 is because they both offer MUCH more than SH1 does (again, MRSI being one key feature here). Also there is a more than decent demand (500 units) so we are looking at all our options and that is how it should be.

Korkut is for AD duties obviously but i am not aware of that development. However about ALIT we are already operating LY-80 and FN series MANPADS.

We now know that SH-1 failed the trials because we are testing Denel & Nora, But can now say that Panter failed the trials as well because there is nothing indicating that it is serving in any regiment?

true on each count.

Actually SH1, though not as good as predicted or hoped for are still working in a very limited number (this part i am sure about, the number is 36 i believe but not sure about this). Panter are reportedly getting rust (we bought a few of those as well, one example can be seen at artillery school Nowshera). Both turned out to be not up to the mark. The interested in new SPH is on a large part dependent on this fact as well as the fact that the new options come with lots of goodies and that we are looking for a very decent number so it means it is wise to reevaluate all the options.

 

[Cool_Soldier]

These wheeled guns are better option as PA need them in Punjab grounds border as well as deserted areas of sindh border.
It looks planning is continued to equip heavily strike division with such weapons to respond quickly Indian Doctrine as they are planning to deploy 500 tanks near border areas along with other weapons.

500 units of modern guns with definitely boost PA fire power deep inside battlefield.

 

[Inception-06]

Korkut SPAAG

No sir we did acquired some units of SH1 (can be conformed by SIPRI as well/not basing the argument on that alone. ) and Panter (the Turkish towed artillery) While the reviews of Panter have been exceptionally BAD the SH1 are just OK. The interest in these two new systems T5 and Nora B52 is because they both offer MUCH more than SH1 does (again, MRSI being one key feature here). Also there is a more than decent demand (500 units) so we are looking at all our options and that is how it should be.

Korkut is for AD duties obviously but i am not aware of that development. However about ALIT we are already operating LY-80 and FN series MANPADS.




Actually SH1, though not as good as predicted or hoped for are still working in a very limited number (this part i am sure about, the number is 36 i believe but not sure about this). Panter are reportedly getting rust (we bought a few of those as well, one example can be seen at artillery school Nowshera). Both turned out to be not up to the mark. The interested in new SPH is on a large part dependent on this fact as well as the fact that the new options come with lots of goodies and that we are looking for a very decent number so it means it is wise to reevaluate all the options.

Why did we buy Panthers and SH-1 if they are not good enough ? Could they not test it before ordering ? Strange !

 

[Cool_Soldier]

No, They (Panter, SH-1)are quite good, but current requirement and available options are better than those.
Then we must go for better option as compared to past procurement.

 

[Gryphon]

MKEK Boran

But can now say that Panter failed the trials as well because there is nothing indicating that it is serving in any regiment?

No, it did not.

The first howitzer was handed over to the Nowshera-based School of Artillery in September 2007. ISPR Press Release said an MoU was signed with Turkey to co-produce the Panter.

Simulators were also acquired.

http://www.ssm.gov.tr/urunkatalog/

According to a 2013 Defense News article:

However, a Pakistani source familiar with the negotiations said Turkey had offered to gift three T-129 helicopters to Pakistan with 2,300 items of spares. The T-129 variant in question was not clarified. The initial T-129A is being used for flight testing while the full specification T-129B is still under development.

Turkey followed the same approach in securing a deal for MKEK 155mm Panter howitzers with Pakistan in 2009. It is now produced in Pakistan by Heavy Industries Taxila.

SIPRI reported direct purchase of 12 & local production of 60 Panter's.

@Bilal Khan (Quwa)

No sir we did acquired some units of SH1 (can be conformed by SIPRI as well/not basing the argument on that alone. ) and Panter (the Turkish towed artillery)

Actually SH1, though not as good as predicted or hoped for are still working in a very limited number (this part i am sure about, the number is 36 i believe but not sure about this). Panter are reportedly getting rust (we bought a few of those as well, one example can be seen at artillery school Nowshera).

Your info about SH-1 is wrong. SIPRI removed the SH-1 info (a year after it was added).

Well, I must ask. Is the rust news from a reliable source or not ?

Why did we buy Panthers and SH-1 if they are not good enough ? Could they not test it before ordering ? Strange !

Both were tested.

Reportedly,the SH-1 was tested in December 2007 in GB. Desert trials followed in June 2008. It was again tested in 2013-2014 & rejected (for the second time). No SH-1 was ordered.

Panter's are in service.

 

[Arsalan]

Your info about SH-1 is wrong. SIPRI removed the SH-1 info (a year after it was added).

Well, I must ask. Is the rust news from a reliable source or not ?

YES, it is from someone who was at the artillery school only two months ago and i specifically asked him about both SH1 and Panter. To be honest, he was not aware of any SH1 operational either but i was following what other have been saying and was of view that this piece of info is just not in his notice. However it seem he was right about both.

Panter was also confirmed about someone serving in artillery and posted in Pano Aqil these days.

 

[Path-Finder]

MKEK Boran





No, it did not.

The first howitzer was handed over to the Nowshera-based School of Artillery in September 2007. ISPR Press Release said an MoU was signed with Turkey to co-produce the Panter.

Simulators were also acquired.

http://www.ssm.gov.tr/urunkatalog/

According to a 2013 Defense News article:



SIPRI reported direct purchase of 12 & local production of 60 Panter's.

@Bilal Khan (Quwa)



Your info about SH-1 is wrong. SIPRI removed the SH-1 info (a year after it was added).

Well, I must ask. Is the rust news from a reliable source or not ?



Both were tested.

Reportedly,the SH-1 was tested in December 2007 in GB. Desert trials followed in June 2008. It was again tested in 2013-2014 & rejected (for the second time). No SH-1 was ordered.

Panter's are in service.

We haven't seen any viable evidence of Panter deployment in the form of pics which usually pop-up once they have been deployed.

YES, it is from someone who was at the artillery school only two months ago and i specifically asked him about both SH1 and Panter. To be honest, he was not aware of any SH1 operational either but i was following what other have been saying and was of view that this piece of info is just not in his notice. However it seem he was right about both.

Panter was also confirmed about someone serving in artillery and posted in Pano Aqil these days.

So Panter is in service?

 

[Gryphon]

Panter was also confirmed about someone serving in artillery and posted in Pano Aqil these days.

Did your source say Panter's are in service with Pano Aqil based artillery units or somewhere else ?

We haven't seen any viable evidence of Panter deployment in the form of pics which usually pop-up once they have been deployed.

Above picture is likely from School of Artillery, Nowshera. No other pic is available.

 

[ali_raza]

Did your source say Panter's are in service with Pano Aqil based artillery units or somewhere else ?



Above picture is likely from School of Artillery, Nowshera. No other pic is available.

why cant we test the equipment properly before ordering

 

[Arsalan]

Did your source say Panter's are in service with Pano Aqil based artillery units or somewhere else ?



Above picture is likely from School of Artillery, Nowshera. No other pic is available.

Nops!!!
He was in Noshera and saw one there with the comments that i mentioned.
The guy in Pano Aqil is SEPRATE and completed his training some time back, had the same reviews. Panters are NOT in Pano Aqil!

 

[ali_raza]

Nops!!!
He was in Noshera and saw one there with the comments that i mentioned.
The guy in Pano Aqil is SEPRATE and completed his training some time back, had the same reviews. Panters are NOT in Pano Aqil!

dear what about we move our heavy guns to LOC permanently

 

[Arsalan]

dear what about we move our heavy guns to LOC permanently

and why would we do that? I am not EVEN commenting on the HOW part!!

 

[ali_raza]

and why would we do that? I am not EVEN commenting on the HOW part!!

we are not very deep country once enemy comes in it means they are in our heartland.
we need to be pro active rather then reactive.
india should know the consiquences of messing with us

 

[Arsalan]

we are not very deep country once enemy comes in it means they are in our heartland.
we need to be pro active rather then reactive.
india should know the consiquences of messing with us

and you think that this or any of this can/will be achieved, and i quote:

what about we move our heavy guns to LOC permanently

Still leaving the HOW part alone!!

You say LOC and you saw PERMANENTLY!!

Either i am not getting what you are saying or you are suggesting something that to not makes any sense at all.

 

[ali_raza]

and you think that this or any of this can/will be achieved, and i quote:

Still leaving the HOW part alone!!

You say LOC and you saw PERMANENTLY!!

Either i am not getting what you are saying or you are suggesting something that to not makes any sense at all.

what i mean to say is we should have maximum offensive posture towards enemy.cos we cant afford to lose anything.one small incident and india should be punished so heavily they loose there moral.
the actual idea is to make the war so costly for india that even the idea of it doesn't come in our neighbors banya mind.
about or how part.i have full faith in our military transportation system m sure they can implement this task once given orders.