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Pakistan’s army is building an arsenal of ”tiny” nuclear weapons—and it’s going to backfire

Are the classified projects financed from the declared defense budget?

Vcheng Sb, aap ki sui aaj bhi wahien phansi howi hai :)

PAEC got something close to Rs.30-31B budget this year, reduced from Rs.59B.And PAEC has civil nuke component also.

So how much would you like or think should be added in the budget of defence the expenditure on nukes ?

I don't think a Billion dollars or 100B Rs are spend on nuclear program, specifically which are related to making nuke weapons.

Pakistan's New Military Budget: By the Numbers | The National Interest

I don't think that we will cross even the 9B$ mark even if we include the nuke program cost.
 
Nobody will believe if you say US doesn't have any idea on Pakistan nuclear. US has inside information on Pakistan nukes.

Yeah, that is why even they can't give a figure about how much we got or how much we making. Having an idea is something and having an exact knowledge is something else.

Plus we don't have money, making nukes may be easy, but maintaining them and having infrastructure to keep supporting them is quiet expensive.
 
Yeah, that is why even they can't give a figure about how much we got or how much we making.

It is another point whether US media has any idea about Pakistan nukes.
 
A counter question to you.... what do you think its the range of your NASAR... 60 KM... even if you fire it from Border it might reach Amritsar or at max Patiyala... and where are Indian Nukes located..... do you have a clue.. No... Indian Nuclear Missiles with high range can be fired from deep inside Indian territory ..and will land deep inside Pakistan territory...

Now tell me... what is the use of your Tactical Nukes...


Good english.


Why would we use Tactical nukes in Amritsar/Patiyala sector which is heavily fortified anyways ?


Tactical nukes are the last resort, when V corps of PA failed to stop 1 corps of IA. In thickness of fog, how anyone can detect NASR TEL s covered with Radar avoidance nets ?
 
Latest wave of such articles tells me Pakistan is doing something fantastically well.
Ya. I am no expert at military doctrines but it seems at lot of people around the world hate Pakistan's tactical nukes.

Tangentially why did Bharat acquire nuclear bombs? It can't have been against Pakistan as she has a massive conventional differential in her favor. Was it for China?
 
It is another point whether US media has any idea about Pakistan nukes.

Even in Pakistan the majority of the people in the nuke field have no idea. The exact figure would be known just to a selected few, and the military will make sure that this info in protected and then you do know about spy world where wrong information is fed to the enemy or circulated to keep the enemy guessing.

Thus no one has any idea in reality that what is the true figure.
 
The independent Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI) estimates that India already possesses between 90 and 110 nuclear weapons, as compared to Pakistan’s estimated stockpile of up to 120

India, according to former Australian nonproliferation chief John Carlson, is one of just three countries that continue to produce fissile materials for nuclear weapons — the others are Pakistan and North Korea. The enlargement of India’s thermonuclear program would position the country alongside the United Kingdom, the United States, Russia, Israel, France, and China, which already have significant stockpiles of such weapons.

Robert Kelley, who served as the director of the Iraq Action Team at the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) from 1992-1993 and 2001-2005, is a former project leader for nuclear intelligence at the Los Alamos National Laboratory.
He told CPI that after analyzing the available satellite imagery, as well as studying open source material on both sites, he believes that India is pursuing a larger thermonuclear arsenal. Its development, he warned, “will inevitably usher in a new nuclear arms race” in a volatile region.

Retired Indian nuclear scientists and military officers said in interviews that India’s growing nuclear submarine fleet would be the first beneficiary of the newly produced enriched uranium.

India presently has just one indigenous vessel, the INS Arihant, constructed in a program supervised by the prime minister’s office. Powered by an 80-megawatt uranium reactor developed by BARC that began operating in August 2013, it will formally enter military service in 2016, having undergone sea trials in 2014. A second, INS Aridhaman, is already under construction, with at least two more slated to be built, a senior military officer said in an interview. Each would be loaded with up to 12 nuclear-tipped missiles. The officer, who was not authorized to be named, said the fleet’s expansion gained a new sense of urgency after Chinese submarines sailed across the Bay of Bengal to Sri Lanka in September and October 2014, docking in a port facility in Colombo that had been built by Chinese engineers.

A senior Obama administration official in Washington, who was not authorized to be quoted by name, expressed skepticism about the government scientist’s private claim. The official said that India’s civilian nuclear programs, including power stations and research establishments, were actually benefiting from new access to imported nuclear fuel after the embargo’s removal in 2007 and now require almost “no homemade enriched uranium.”

India has already received roughly 4,914 tons of uranium from France, Russia, and Kazakhstan, for example, and it has agreements with Canada, Mongolia, Argentina, and Namibia for additional shipments. In September 2014, then-Prime Minister Tony Abbott signed an agreement to make Australia a “long-term, reliable supplier of uranium to India” — a deal that has sparked considerable controversy at home.

The International Panel on Fissile Materials estimates that the Arihant-class submarine core requires only about 143 pounds of uranium, enriched to 30 percent — a measure of how many of its isotopes can be readily used in weaponry. Using this figure and the estimated capacity of the centrifuges India is installing in Mysore alone — not even including Challakere — Kelley concluded that even after fueling its entire submarine fleet there would be 352 pounds of weapons-grade uranium left over every year, or enough to fuel at least 22 H-bombs

Previously, this meant the bare minimum required to prevent an attack on India, but a new Indian doctrine in 2003 — in response to Pakistan’s increasingly aggressive nuclear posture — altered this notion: “Nuclear retaliation to a first strike will be massive and designed to inflict unacceptable damage.” the retired official said.

U.S. and British officials affirmed that they have been aware of this discussion among Indian scientists and soldiers for years.


SOME HIGHLIGHTS FROM : India Is Building a Top-Secret Nuclear City to Produce Thermonuclear Weapons, Experts Say | Foreign Policy

This story was written by the Center for Public Integrity, a nonprofit, nonpartisan investigative news organization in Washington, D.C., and wasoriginally published on its website.

The Center for Public Integrity’s national security managing editor R. Jeffrey Smith contributed to this article from Washington, D.C.






 
Ya. I am no expert at military doctrines but it seems at lot of people around the world hate Pakistan's tactical nukes.

Tangentially why did Bharat acquire nuclear bombs? It can't have been against Pakistan as she has a massive conventional differential in her favor. Was it for China?

Two things that come to my mind...1) They are for China 2) They are used by India for power projection.
 
A counter question to you.... what do you think its the range of your NASAR... 60 KM... even if you fire it from Border it might reach Amritsar or at max Patiyala... and where are Indian Nukes located..... do you have a clue.. No... Indian Nuclear Missiles with high range can be fired from deep inside Indian territory ..and will land deep inside Pakistan territory...

Now tell me... what is the use of your Tactical Nukes...

Let me break it down for you since a child like you don't understand basic defence mechanisms such "escalation ladder"

So Pakistan's massive conventional military, our jets, bombs, AWACS, radars, ships, tanks, and so on are there so that indians won't be able to launch a "surprised" attack and we'll check mate indians before they get any successful conventional break-through. We have been successful in doing it and have NEVER failed since 1947 in this regard (talking about W.Pakistan strictly). Today, it is impossible for indians to launch any "surprise" attack because we have AWACS can can see 300km inside indian borders..and then we have on ground intelligence. So any concentration of indian forces will be picked by Pakistan--and we'll be able to move our forces faster than india (as demonstrated again and again in 2002, 2008, and 2011/12 live exercises). So conventionally, indians are a no threat because they can't surprise us and they won't be able to fight a long-war (which is required if you are not able to surprise your powerful opponent).

Now, what if (by a miracle!) indians somehow surprise us? (Again, it is an almost impossibility but every great military force prepares for ALL kind of circumstances. For example, in WW2--U.S army had plans about what to do if Japan conquered ENTIRE mainland USA.)...So what if india surprises us and launches a massive attack and our forces aren't yet fully mobilized?

Well, enters NASR--we'll use tactical weapons to decimate thousands of indian troops, tanks, armor in deserts of Sindh (main region for armor warfare) without harming our population. We can also use tactical nukes near border-region of Punjab, if tactical nukes wouldn't cause much damage to our populations. So that's why we have tactical nukes..as a failure-proof defence.

Now, what if indians somehow come dangerously close to our cities AND/OR decide to launch a nuclear attack on us in response to our tactical nuclear strike on Indian formations?

Well, enters our Strategic Nuclear Forces that have strategic nuclear weapons deployed on advance missile systems that can hit all of india. So in the case of a massive nuclear retaliation from india (or indian conventional forces crossing our nuclear threshold)--we'll destroy indian cities and population centers, hence exercising MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction) and both india and Pakistan will cease to exist as viable states.

In the end, our defence against india is three-layered fail proof mechanism consisting of our powerful conventional forces--tactical nuclear weapons---strategic nuclear forces. There is no way in any scenario that india of today can fight a war with Pakistan and survive as our defence mechanism ensures india's defeat or if not defeat, then total destruction. There is no gap left in our military doctrine.

So you see the rationale behind tactical nukes? It just diminishes any indian hopes of fighting a quick, successful military campaign against Pakistan without crossing our nuclear threshold.
 
So Point is, if Pakistan is going to fire Tiny bombs, India can retaliate with Thermonuclear warhead with Arihant class subs India had upper hand.
 
Even in Pakistan the majority of the people in the nuke field have no idea. The exact figure would be known just to a selected few, and the military will make sure that this info in protected and then you do know about spy world where wrong information is fed to the enemy or circulated to keep the enemy guessing.

Thus no one has any idea in reality that what is the true figure.

I doubt that...Pakistan was at the weakest from 2001 to 2014 with lots of violence and terrorism. US must have considerable concern for the safety of nukes not falling into wrong hands. To allay US fears, I am sure Pakistan must have opened its nukes to US.
 
Let me break it down for you since a child like you don't understand basic defence mechanisms such "escalation ladder"

So Pakistan's massive conventional military, our jets, bombs, AWACS, radars, ships, tanks, and so on are there so that indians won't be able to launch a "surprised" attack and we'll check mate indians before they get any successful conventional break-through. We have been successful in doing it and have NEVER failed since 1947 in this regard (talking about W.Pakistan strictly). Today, it is impossible for indians to launch any "surprise" attack because we have AWACS can can see 300km inside indian borders..and then we have on ground intelligence. So any concentration of indian forces will be picked by Pakistan--and we'll be able to move our forces faster than india (as demonstrated again and again in 2002, 2008, and 2011/12 live exercises). So conventionally, indians are a no threat because they can't surprise us and they won't be able to fight a long-war (which is required if you are not able to surprise your powerful opponent).

Now, what if (by a miracle!) indians somehow surprise us? (Again, it is an almost impossibility but every great military force prepares for ALL kind of circumstances. For example, in WW2--U.S army had plans about what to do if Japan conquered ENTIRE mainland USA.)...So what if india surprises us and launches a massive attack and our forces aren't yet fully mobilized?

Well, enters NASR--we'll use tactical weapons to decimate thousands of indian troops, tanks, armor in deserts of Sindh (main region for armor warfare) without harming our population. We can also use tactical nukes near border-region of Punjab, if tactical nukes wouldn't cause much damage to our populations. So that's why we have tactical nukes..as a failure-proof defence.

Now, what if indians somehow come dangerously close to our cities AND/OR decide to launch a nuclear attack on us in response to our tactical nuclear strike on Indian formations?

Well, enters our Strategic Nuclear Forces that have strategic nuclear weapons deployed on advance missile systems that can hit all of india. So in the case of a massive nuclear retaliation from india (or indian conventional forces crossing our nuclear threshold)--we'll destroy indian cities and population centers, hence exercising MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction) and both india and Pakistan will cease to exist as viable states.

In the end, our defence against india is three-layered fail proof mechanism consisting of our powerful conventional forces--tactical nuclear weapons---strategic nuclear forces. There is no way in any scenario that india of today can fight a war with Pakistan and survive as our defence mechanism ensures india's defeat or if not defeat, then total destruction. There is no gap left in our military doctrine.

So you see the rationale behind tactical nukes? It just diminishes any indian hopes of fighting a quick, successful military campaign against Pakistan without crossing our nuclear threshold.
In that case.. all this Tactical Nukes is a waste of resources. Good luck at wasting your national resources.
 
Vcheng Sb, aap ki sui aaj bhi wahien phansi howi hai :)

PAEC got something close to Rs.30-31B budget this year, reduced from Rs.59B.And PAEC has civil nuke component also.

So how much would you like or think should be added in the budget of defence the expenditure on nukes ?

I don't think a Billion dollars or 100B Rs are spend on nuclear program, specifically which are related to making nuke weapons.

Pakistan's New Military Budget: By the Numbers | The National Interest

I don't think that we will cross even the 9B$ mark even if we include the nuke program cost.

Sir, facts are facts. All I pointed out is that the covert budget is unknown, as it should be, and has no relationship with the declared defense budget. Nukes are good, but a great economy is an even better defense in the long run. :D
 

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