Pakistan's Airborne Early Warning and Control Aircrafts

[TaimiKhan]

Brother I once had a similar query and this is the reply I got from Taimi.
I hope this will help, but I'm still not sure about the rest of the older Chinese planes we have in service like the F-7PG & A-5Phantan.

Thanks for referring the previous post of mine, just to elaborate further here are some pics of the PAF aircraft showing their communication antenna. You will find they are all same in make, even JF-17 has such antenna and seen it on some of the new C-130s too, making it credible that PAF is looking into making all the PAF aircraft compatible in communication field. As for A-5, well no need for it to be upgraded as its days are numbered, in most probably a year or so, it won't be flying anymore.

Here are the pics of some of the aircraft, do check out the JF-17 pic and if possible find a FC-1 prototype# 6 pic and see its antenna is changed compared to the earlier models and JF-17, it has a Chinese one. So even in JF-17 prototypes we were using Western communication equipment.

An overhauled F-7P



The label below the picture says it all and mind you these mirages went for Bright Start Exercise in 2009, where there must be AWAC deployed and used as it was a multiple nation exercise and AWAC environment is must, making Mirages of PAF work under a data link environment.



Another Mirage of PAF



The recently first prototype Mirage with IFR, see the antenna above.

So now check the JF-17 pic by yourself, but i do hope all of you remember well what antenna it has and if possible the new C-130 picture.

 

[TaimiKhan]

Here is JF-17's UHF/VHF Data chain antenna up close.

 

[Sapper]

Here is JF-17's UHF/VHF Data chain antenna up close.

Can someone tell me what the logo on the antenna means ... if we can prove a remote connection between the logo and Link16, it will be proof enough.

Regards,
Sapper

 

[TaimiKhan]

Can someone tell me what the logo on the antenna means ... if we can prove a remote connection between the logo and Link16, it will be proof enough.

Regards,
Sapper

Well i tried very hard but wasn't able to locate the manufacturer uptill now.

Plus JF-17 has 2 such antennas, one under the nose and another at the top of the spine, plus you can see 2 other small communication type antennas too, same one above and one below.

 

[Sapper]

Well i tried very hard but wasn't able to locate the manufacturer uptill now.

Plus JF-17 has 2 such antennas, one under the nose and another at the top of the spine, plus you can see 2 other small communication type antennas too, same one above and one below.

I have also been unsuccessful in trying to find either the manufacturer or any another example of these types of antennas on any other fighter/drone/AWACS etc.

Regards,
Sapper

 

[Patriot]

The radar warning system is produced by the Chinese company CETC and has a database of 100 issuers expandable to 300. The normal communications equipment (HF / VHF / HF) being provided with Pakistan adding a data link system to receive information from the Saab 2000 AEW & C
-
Source: Pshamim (Retired PAF Pilot) and another air marshal (cant remember his name) but he mentioned on geo that it will contain Link-16 databus and will be able to communicate with western platforms (he was serving officer)

 

[TaimiKhan]

The radar warning system is produced by the Chinese company CETC and has a database of 100 issuers expandable to 300. The normal communications equipment (HF / VHF / HF) being provided with Pakistan adding a data link system to receive information from the Saab 2000 AEW & C
-
Source: Pshamim (Retired PAF Pilot) and another air marshal (cant remember his name) but he mentioned on geo that it will contain Link-16 databus and will be able to communicate with western platforms (he was serving officer)

Uptill now, the data does suggest that JF-17 will be able to communicate with Western platforms as the communication equipment is clearly western.

 

[Lethalforce]

will USA allow F-16's to be linked to a Chinese AWAC??

 

[TaimiKhan]

will USA allow F-16's to be linked to a Chinese AWAC??

Its not about USA, if the F-16s have a data link capability and if the Chinese AEW&C has a communication system which can communicate with western platform, then why not. Permission from USA is not required.

Most probably the Chinese AEW&C may have a western communication equipment, just like what we had in JF-17.

 

[Lethalforce]

Its not about USA, if the F-16s have a data link capability and if the Chinese AEW&C has a communication system which can communicate with western platform, then why not. Permission from USA is not required.

Most probably the Chinese AEW&C may have a western communication equipment, just like what we had in JF-17.

Chinese may learn things about the F-16's that USA may not want them to learn,especially since Taiwan also has F-16's ,USA would be even more sensitive about any data linking with a Chinese AWAC.

 

[TaimiKhan]

Chinese may learn things about the F-16's that USA may not want them to learn,especially since Taiwan also has F-16's ,USA would be even more sensitive about any data linking with a Chinese AWAC.

And Sir, may I ask what the Chinese may learn from F-16 through an AEW&C ??

We already have F-16s and Chinese have a good idea about the F-16s that we have, they must have checked it out years ago. Yeah if they have some advanced version that is something else.

But i don't understand what Chinese will learn about F-16s from an AEW&C ??

 

[Lethalforce]

And Sir, may I ask what the Chinese may learn from F-16 through an AEW&C ??

We already have F-16s and Chinese have a good idea about the F-16s that we have, they must have checked it out years ago. Yeah if they have some advanced version that is something else.

But i don't understand what Chinese will learn about F-16s from an AEW&C ??

Taimi it is doubtful that Chinese have will come close to the new and maybe even the older F-16'S, Pakistan and USA have specific terms to prevent Chinese anywhere near the F-16's the terms even for maintenance and repair are spelled out where only US crews will be working on them, to achieve datalinking between a plane and an AWAC some of the following are needed:

1)a quick secure communication system -if an F-16 is linked to an Chinese AWAC this would provide insight into the electronics or communication system of the F-16.

2) Joint Tactical Information Display System (JTIDS), the Identification Friend or Foe (IFF) radar, and the Navstar Global Position System space‐based location system would also have to be linked to the plane would USA want all these systems incorporated to an F-16 especially the newer block you are getting?? Knowledge gained from this can possibly also be used in F-16's owned by other countries like Taiwan.

3)a crew of atleast 20 would be needed to link the plane to aircraft and ground station would USA want a Chinese crew in this linking process?

4)any data received from the AWAC would possibly reveal weakness and strengths in the F-16's capabiity and avionics , how it is able to manuever 9G turns,thrust to weight ratios and vertical acceleration all things which are more or less classified and only known to US government presently.

 

[TaimiKhan]

Taimi it is doubtful that Chinese have will come close to the new and maybe even the older F-16'S, Pakistan and USA have specific terms to prevent Chinese anywhere near the F-16's the terms even for maintenance and repair are spelled out where only US crews will be working on them, to achieve datalinking between a plane and an AWAC some of the following are needed:

1)a quick secure communication system -if an F-16 is linked to an Chinese AWAC this would provide insight into the electronics or communication system of the F-16.

2) Joint Tactical Information Display System (JTIDS), the Identification Friend or Foe (IFF) radar, and the Navstar Global Position System space‐based location system would also have to be linked to the plane would USA want all these systems incorporated to an F-16 especially the newer block you are getting?? Knowledge gained from this can possibly also be used in F-16's owned by other countries like Taiwan.

3)a crew of atleast 20 would be needed to link the plane to aircraft and ground station would USA want a Chinese crew in this linking process?

4)any data received from the AWAC would possibly reveal weakness and strengths in the F-16's capabiity and avionics , how it is able to manuever 9G turns,thrust to weight ratios and vertical acceleration all things which are more or less classified and only known to US government presently.

well thx for your insight, but just to assure you, Chinese have checked the F-16s, not the internal avionics things, just the flying characteristics. Not a big deal. Well they may not be able to check up the new F-16s we are gonna get, as US will be doing inventory checking. And with current Chinese air power quality, don't think they would be needing such information to counter Taiwan's F-16s. They have now quiet good quality aircrafts, SAM network and land attack capability.

 

[Lethalforce]

Chinese may have a quantitative advantage over the Taiwanese but not qualitative, the qualitative advantage the Taiwanese have is what USA wants to preserve the less the Chinese know about the F-16's the better since many NATO nations and US allies have the plane and it may be used in an adverserial role against Chinese aggression, many nations that own the F-16 are in the South China sea region.

 

[mean_bird]

3)a crew of atleast 20 would be needed to link the plane to aircraft and ground station would USA want a Chinese crew in this linking process?

4)any data received from the AWAC would possibly reveal weakness and strengths in the F-16's capabiity and avionics , how it is able to manuever 9G turns,thrust to weight ratios and vertical acceleration all things which are more or less classified and only known to US government presently.

Please excuse for making a ridicule of this, but that's got to be amongst the funniest things I have heard in a long time.

Communication revealing how you manuever 9g turns? what your TWR is? Look at it this way, we are talking to each other right now (me and you)-- do I know your weight and height? or your body mass? or how fast you can run?

Communication takes place through standard interfaces. That means, you define a standard of how to input data and what the output is and you transmit using that standard. No internal working has to be revealed in order to do that. The only exception is, if you do not even want to reveal your communication interface (fearing the other can spy on your communication or jam it, etc. Those are quite secured.).

But in no way will you reveal TWR, or how you do 9g turns. That's got to do with physical design of the plane. Btw, everyone knows the TWR of the F-16. Also, data is not something you have to physically carry that you need 20 people to do it.

Datalinking US BVR missiles using Chinese AWACS is something that looks impossible but delivering situational awareness, etc should be quite easy.