Pakistan's Airborne Early Warning and Control Aircrafts

[TaimiKhan]

no no no
it is the KJ200 that we will get from china.
moreover the news that we have got an erieye from sweden is also not confirmed, atleast it is not with us here in pakistan as yet.

Well your agreeing or disagreeing doesn;t matter buddy, read the below mentioned link and page for further info and look at the latest pics of the models being shown by Chinese Manufacturer with Pakistan-China flag clearly seen. Mind it, these pictures of models are very recent giving much credibility to the notion of what kind of AEW&C we are gonna get from China.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/milita...tan-awacs-aew-cs-aircrafts-89.html#post567524

Post# 1355 above is also sufficient to your query.

And as for the second part, below is the official notification by PAF on its official website regarding the Saab 2000 AEW&C

PAF Receives its First Airborne Early Warning & Control Aircraft

ISLAMABAD, 08 DECEMBER, 2009:- PAF today received first of its four Saab-
2000 Airborne Early Warning & Control aircraft from Sweden. The aircraft landed
at one of the PAF’s Main Operating Bases, marking achievement of a major
milestone in the overall modernization plan of PAF.

With the induction of Swedish AEW&C system, PAF has become one of
the few air forces in the world to have Airborne Early Warning capability. Besides
detection of High and Medium altitude flying aircraft, this state-of-the-art system
is also capable of detecting low level flying objects over land & sea at extended
ranges; the system is capable of picking even the surface targets over the sea.
By virtue of these features, PAF would be able to boost its operational capability
manifold by achieving requisite early warning for efficient & meaningful Air
Defence of its airspace.

 

[was]

And its a waste of time to read your comment , i am sorry for being rude but this is the reality unfortunately .

I guess Guys sitting there in AHQ in Islamabad start thinking where your mentality ends!!

Do not take it personal but your comment is absolutely ridiculous , Y8 is a great platform for our needs , who knows it has similar capabilities as KJ2k radar .

I would like every Pakistani member here to put one thing in their Head , " A bird in a hand is better than nine in the bush"

If someone thinks that the Chinese technology is cheap hence degraded and inferior than i have not shame saying that those folks are living in Paradise of idiots.

We buy Chinese technology because we trust them they do not come with strings attacked to them , they come with TOT .

Pakistan may consider to get FC-20 certified production too ( TOT) There is a program for Joint AWACS , CUAV , and off course we will join hands with our Chinese friends for JXX too.

If any of the western countries do any single thing for you from the list up there i would bet anything for that!

Sweden had refused to sell Gripen dont forget that , our future industry lays in Joint production between Two red and one Green flags.
China Pakistan Turkey and this is where it ends...

Regards:

lol relax. that was my opinion. no need to be rude

 

[dbc]

The below pictures which recently surfaced and were posted by our dear friend wangrong a few pages before in this thread speaks volume about the system PAF is gonna have. If we go by this model, it means we are not getting a linear shaped radar on the Chinese platform, rather a dome version. And the aircraft which came to Chaklala was also a dome version not the linear shaped one, so both these things give credibility to the notion that we will not be getting a KJ200 system, but a miniature version of the radar or AEW&C being used on the Chinese KJ2000 (IL76/78).

So PAF most probably would be using the 4 Saab 2000 platform Erieye Linear Shaped Radar AEW&C systems and 4 dome shaped radar Chinese AEW&C on a Chinese Y-8 platform & not the Linear shaped KJ200.

The below aircraft is in no way a "miniature version of the radar or AEW&C being used on the Chinese KJ2000"



The array configuration on the KJ-2000 is triangular on the Y-8 it is “balance beam” linear-shaped electronically steered phased-array radar. In terms of capability the Y-8 Pakistan is acquiring is comparable to the US platform E-2C Hawkeye that Pakistan turned down some time ago and inferior to the Erieye system Pakistan recently purchased from Sweden.

 

[TaimiKhan]

The below aircraft is in no way a "miniature version of the radar or AEW&C being used on the Chinese KJ2000"



The array configuration on the KJ-2000 is triangular on the Y-8 it is “balance beam” linear-shaped electronically steered phased-array radar. In terms of capability the Y-8 Pakistan is acquiring is comparable to the US platform E-2C Hawkeye that Pakistan turned down some time ago and inferior to the Erieye system Pakistan recently purchased from Sweden.

In the picture that you have posted, what else do you see other then a dome version of an AESAradar placed on a Y-8. KJ-2000 uses an AESA radar, same AESA radar will be placed on the Y-8 which PAF will also be having. Only difference would be that the radar size on KJ-2000 would be huge compared to the one PAF would be getting as size & performance of the carrying platform is small, one uses a IL-76/78 aircraft, while on the other side we have a Y-8. So the type of radars won't be different, different would be their size, making a difference in their range, detection capability and handling capability.

We have one Linear Shaped AESA radar version of AEW&C, while the second option would be the dome version Chinese platform.

And its common sense that we can't compare a western system to a chinese system for now as China is new into the game, while the western system is an old player manufacturing these systems with years of research and experience behind it. So definitely Erieye would be superior to the Linear version of China, but we aren't having a Chinese Linear Version of AESA radar AEW&C.

 

[shchinese]

In the picture that you have posted, what else do you see other then a dome version of an AESAradar placed on a Y-8. KJ-2000 uses an AESA radar, same AESA radar will be placed on the Y-8 which PAF will also be having. Only difference would be that the radar size on KJ-2000 would be huge compared to the one PAF would be getting as size & performance of the carrying platform is small, one uses a IL-76/78 aircraft, while on the other side we have a Y-8. So the type of radars won't be different, different would be their size, making a difference in their range, detection capability and handling capability.

indeed.

the balance beam is for KJ-200 (which is also fitted onto a Y-8), but Pak never ordered that.

 

[Quwa]

Firstly, the ZDK03 is a long-term development programme, the present requirement will be met with the Erieye. Although PAF only ordered 4, this was due to financial constraints, and if times got better, the PAF may order the 2 it cut. In any case, the PAF will work with China to further develop the ZDK03 into a potent system, and may use it as a basis for a new-generation AEW&C later.

Secondly, the ZDK03 is indeed the phased-array KJ-200:

Pakistan Surmounts Sanctions To Revive Airpower - Defense News

 

[TaimiKhan]

Firstly, the ZDK03 is a long-term development programme, the present requirement will be met with the Erieye. Although PAF only ordered 4, this was due to financial constraints, and if times got better, the PAF may order the 2 it cut. In any case, the PAF will work with China to further develop the ZDK03 into a potent system, and may use it as a basis for a new-generation AEW&C later.

Secondly, the ZDK03 is indeed the phased-array KJ-200:

Pakistan Surmounts Sanctions To Revive Airpower - Defense News

"December also saw Pakistan sign a $278 million deal for four Chinese KJ-2000/ZDK03 AEW&C aircraft, whose active electronically steered array radar is mounted on a turboprop-powered Y-8F600. It is somewhat similar to the Saab-2000-mounted Ericsson FRS-890 Erieye system on order from Sweden."

The author says its a KJ-2000 system and then says its something similar to Saab Erieye. He himself is confused and doesn't knows 100% what the real system would be like.

I say again that we should analyze the facts for the time being we have in our hands and decide what type we are gonna end.

- ZDK-03 is a completely different name given to the PAF system, if it had been KJ-200, something similar would have been used for it as in the past whatever Chinese system we have acquired, very much similar Chinese designations have been used for the platforms.

- The AEW&C which came to Chaklala Airbase, Pakistan was a Dome version radar on a Y-8 platform, fortunately i did saw it fly on a few occasions when i was in Pindi, so why a dome version comes to Pakistan even when the Linear shaped KJ-200 was available & flying at that time and was available to be checked by Pakistan. So if KJ-200 was available and yet the dome version came to Pakistan, does suggests something that we are not interested in the linear shape version.

- The above picture of the model of Y-8 with a dome version radar with Chinese & Pakistan flags with CETC written on it has not been seen for all this time, but it came up on the net recently as time comes nearby for the induction of the platform and posted by our friend Wangrong, whose other pictures of different aircraft have proven to be quiet right to exist.

- Saab Erieye and the KJ-200 platforms can't give 360 degree coverage, so why will PAF go for more of these things which can't give 360 coverage ??

I hope time will tell what in reality we will be getting, but after analyzing some of the facts mentioned above, it is atleast clear to me that we are not getting the KJ-200 type AEW&C, rather its a dome version. If it had been KJ-200 linear shaped version we may have seen it by now as its already operational, but seeing just 4 platforms in PLAAF service for such a long time with no new additions may also suggest that China is either improving the current system or going for something else, due to which the induction of more KJ-200s have stopped.

And the article is of Feb 2009, nearly 10 months old item, at which time the above model picture was nowhere to be found, but once this picture came up, it has given more credibility to the notion that we are gonna get the dome version and not the linear shaped version.

 

[Luftwaffe]

zdk03 is very important to Pakistan if we want to have a future indigenous AWACS system with our future fleet of Thunders and FC-20..as Mark mentioned ZDK03 is long term development program. the prospect of project can be given importance from the angle that whether we get hawkeye2000 or not we need naval AWACs/AEW&Cs platform zdk03 could pose to be a very potent system.

 

[shchinese]

zdk03 is very important to Pakistan if we want to have a future indigenous AWACS system with our future fleet of Thunders and FC-20..as Mark mentioned ZDK03 is long term development program. the prospect of project can be given importance from the angle that whether we get hawkeye2000 or not we need naval AWACs/AEW&Cs platform zdk03 could pose to be a very potent system.

this balance beam based Y-8 simply can not be as good as the other Y-8 based one.

 

[Luftwaffe]

shchinese that is why the china is still working on the development of a potent AEW&Cs system that is just an image of what final product may look like work is underway progress has been made we simply can't say this is not good.

 

[dbc]

In the picture that you have posted, what else do you see other then a dome version of an AESAradar placed on a Y-8. KJ-2000 uses an AESA radar, same AESA radar will be placed on the Y-8 which PAF will also be having. Only difference would be that the radar size on KJ-2000 would be huge compared to the one PAF would be getting as size & performance of the carrying platform is small, one uses a IL-76/78 aircraft, while on the other side we have a Y-8. So the type of radars won't be different, different would be their size, making a difference in their range, detection capability and handling capability.

We have one Linear Shaped AESA radar version of AEW&C, while the second option would be the dome version Chinese platform.

And its common sense that we can't compare a western system to a chinese system for now as China is new into the game, while the western system is an old player manufacturing these systems with years of research and experience behind it. So definitely Erieye would be superior to the Linear version of China, but we aren't having a Chinese Linear Version of AESA radar AEW&C.

Wrong, a rotodome can house a linear array balance beam, I think you have balance beam confused with linear-array radar like the Erieye PAF is acquiring. If you examine the rotodome on the Phalcon and KJ-2000 you will notice a silver triangle on the base & roof of the rotodome indicating that the array is arranged in a triangular configuration.



In contrast, if you examine pictures of the Iranian AWACS

or the image I posted earlier you will notice a broad silverline going across the rotodome indicating the rotodome houses a linear array, balance beam simply refers to the shape of electromagnetic waves generated by the radar. Again, there is NO comparison between the KJ-2000 and Y-8 the KJ-2000 is in a different league.

The Y-8 PAF is acquiring from China is the one China is building for the export market that and the price of the system (278 m$) for the Y-8 vs (1.7 b$) for the Erieye is an indication of system capability.

 

[Quwa]

"December also saw Pakistan sign a $278 million deal for four Chinese KJ-2000/ZDK03 AEW&C aircraft, whose active electronically steered array radar is mounted on a turboprop-powered Y-8F600. It is somewhat similar to the Saab-2000-mounted Ericsson FRS-890 Erieye system on order from Sweden."


The author says its a KJ-2000 system and then says its something similar to Saab Erieye. He himself is confused and doesn't knows 100% what the real system would be like.

Possibly a typo.

- ZDK-03 is a completely different name given to the PAF system, if it had been KJ-200, something similar would have been used for it as in the past whatever Chinese system we have acquired, very much similar Chinese designations have been used for the platforms.

KJ-200 is ZDK03, confirmed by Usman Shabbir (most reliable source on Pakistani defence info available):

PakDef Forums - View Single Post - PAF related discussion: Sep – Dec 2008

Furthermore, in the September 2008 issue of AFM, the then PAF ACM - Tanvir Ahmad - said ZDK03 will have ""blade on top, not a rotating dome"

You can confirm it yourself by acquiring a hardcopy from AFM, but as it stands, the retired PAF ACM (officially reliable) AND Usman Shabbir (most reliable privately), both said ZDK03 is KJ-200.

 

[TaimiKhan]

Possibly a typo.

KJ-200 is ZDK03, confirmed by Usman Shabbir (most reliable source on Pakistani defence info available):

PakDef Forums - View Single Post - PAF related discussion: Sep – Dec 2008

Furthermore, in the September 2008 issue of AFM, the then PAF ACM - Tanvir Ahmad - said ZDK03 will have ""blade on top, not a rotating dome"

You can confirm it yourself by acquiring a hardcopy from AFM, but as it stands, the retired PAF ACM (officially reliable) AND Usman Shabbir (most reliable privately), both said ZDK03 is KJ-200.

OK Sir, lets wait then for a year or two, hopefully when it comes online, things would be much cleared then.

 

[ejaz007]

Pakistan to get 3 more AWACS in 2010: Jatoi


MULTAN: The country will receive three more Airborne Warning and Control Systems (AWACS) in 2010, Minister for Defence Production Abdul Qayyum Khan Jatoi said on Sunday. Speaking at a news conference, he said one AWACS plane had reached the country and three more were expected next year. Asked about the demand for a new province, Jatoi welcomed Prime Minister Yousaf Raza Gilani’s statement in which the PM had said he never opposed the demand but that the present time was not suitable to raise such issues. Jatoi urged the provincial government to allocate more funds for the development of South Punjab. He also sought rightful allocation of resources from the National Finance Commission Award for the southern parts of the province. app


Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan

 

[truepakistani17]

i totally agree with you point of view. its features like detection range or simultaneous target monitering modes may well be same as that of KJ200 and not KJ2000 but it will feature a dome shaped version to givee 360 degree coverage.
this is what i think and have already been mentioned in some previous posts by some other members and is same as what you have said.

i hope it happens to be true because it will give a real boost to our air force. these AWE&Cz are force multipliers in true sense.

thanks