Pakistan's Airborne Early Warning and Control Aircrafts

[Path-Finder]

Speed does not mean anything as when the Embraer or any other biz jet is in operation as an AWACS its speed is the same as that of the Saab 2000 or any other propeller driven aircraft. The only benefit of the speed is thus just the ingress to the station and flying back to base, neither of which are that important given Pakistans geography and the number of platforms available to PAF

hmmn, ok what about the extended range?

 

[GriffinsRule]

You are Not grasping the bigger picture! All the current fleet is for defensive purposes so Saab 2000 makes sense as it will not venture beyond the border! BUT if there is a need for greater range with speed for a mission requirement where the aircraft must go beyond the borders into hostile territory! do you take slow less range Turboprop? or are you going to take an aircraft with speed and range on its side?

We will also never see Saab flying inside Indian airspace as PAF does not have the capability to achieve air superiority over IAF. And even when our fighters would find themselves over India, Erieye has enough range to stay withing Pakistan and still provide battle space information to them.

hmmn, ok what about the extended range?

Not that useful in PAF. Maybe if we had fewer aircraft, time on station would have been more critical, but with almost a dozen AWACS, its not that important

 

[Path-Finder]

We will also never see Saab flying inside Indian airspace as PAF does not have the capability to achieve air superiority over IAF. And even when our fighters would find themselves over India, Erieye has enough range to stay withing Pakistan and still provide battle space information to them.

I did say slower turbo prop is not going to leave the territory! BUT if the mission requirement needs AEW&C to assist away from your territory and lets not write out the possibility of this happening. war is a fluid situation.

Not that useful in PAF. Maybe if we had fewer aircraft, time on station would have been more critical, but with almost a dozen AWACS, its not that important

speed and extended range or in case of Saab 2k a jet will more than double the range and possibility that air refueling could be added to business jet as well! in an ideal world you will take the extra range and speed where PAF had to settle for the most cost effective due to economics!

 

[Dazzler]

@Dazzler abd @airomerix
On a unrelated topic, there was talk of upgrading the ZDK03 from a PESA to an AESA like KLJ500. One of the ZDK03s was in China to be upgraded. Does anyone know and can mention on an open forum whether this has happened or not. Thanks in advance. With all due respects to both please dont respond in riddles. Either yes, No or dont want to say or dont know will do if you want to keep it to yourselves. If you can share info it will be appreciated
A

At least one zdk is being upgraded in China. Two side aesa in rotodome. Has Klc-7 B&R Eye radar.

 

[araz]

At least one zdk is being upgraded in China. Two side aesa in rotodome. Has Klc-7 B&R Eye radar.

Taking a long time. Have there been problems with integration or reluctance to do so instead pushing newer platforms?

 

[aziqbal]

At least one zdk is being upgraded in China. Two side aesa in rotodome. Has Klc-7 B&R Eye radar.

Yes and its rumoured to be the same radar which will be used on the KJ-600 Carrier Based AWACS for the Chinese Navy

and actually the KJ-600 is nothing short of a space programme, very few countries manage to build a carrier based AWACS, even the British failed and so did the French, the Soviet Union kind of got there with An-71 but the carrier never materialised, putting a radar on top of a small aircraft and landing and take from a ship at sea is a top tier request

Only USN has mastered the Carrier AWACS and next will be China and Chinese AWACS programmes are marching forward at a very fast pace

Taking a long time. Have there been problems with integration or reluctance to do so instead pushing newer platforms?

PAF ordered a custom built AWACS in 2006 from China, maybe not custom built but PAF worked very closely with CFTE to develop the ZDK-03, it was a first attempt and first unit was delivered in 2011 and last one in 2015 it was a decade in the making, AWACS are sophisticated platforms and newer ASEA systems are very advanced and China only really mastered this field in the last 10 years, as such it takes time I would be surprised if it takes another few years to complete the upgrade process

 

[araz]

Yes and its rumoured to be the same radar which will be used on the KJ-600 Carrier Based AWACS for the Chinese Navy

and actually the KJ-600 is nothing short of a space programme, very few countries manage to build a carrier based AWACS, even the British failed and so did the French, the Soviet Union kind of got there with An-71 but the carrier never materialised, putting a radar on top of a small aircraft and landing and take from a ship at sea is a top tier request

Only USN has mastered the Carrier AWACS and next will be China and Chinese AWACS programmes are marching forward at a very fast pace



PAF ordered a custom built AWACS in 2006 from China, maybe not custom built but PAF worked very closely with CFTE to develop the ZDK-03, it was a first attempt and first unit was delivered in 2011 and last one in 2015 it was a decade in the making, AWACS are sophisticated platforms and newer ASEA systems are very advanced and China only really mastered this field in the last 10 years, as such it takes time I would be surprised if it takes another few years to complete the upgrade process

ASAK.
Thank you both @Dazzler and @aziqbal also @Raven for your responses. I understand the complexity of the upgrade process involving the ZDK03. However it has been 2 to 3 years and one wonders if the integration process has hit some snags. Irrespective once the baseline model is retrofitted the upgrade of the other 3 will proceed quickly. I suspect that the ZDK03 is still in China for upgrades and PAF has not sent others over which means what ever the upgrade and its complexities are have not yet been resolved. As long as PAF has technicians involved in the process the learning itself will be worth the wait.
Regards
A

 

[Myth_buster_1]

ASAK.
Thank you both @Dazzler and @aziqbal also @Raven for your responses. I understand the complexity of the upgrade process involving the ZDK03. However it has been 2 to 3 years and one wonders if the integration process has hit some snags. Irrespective once the baseline model is retrofitted the upgrade of the other 3 will proceed quickly. I suspect that the ZDK03 is still in China for upgrades and PAF has not sent others over which means what ever the upgrade and its complexities are have not yet been resolved. As long as PAF has technicians involved in the process the learning itself will be worth the wait.
Regards
A

Please do know that most of deals between PAK and China are not disclosed to public so its true capabilities are hidden from opponents.

 

[nomi007]

 

[Path-Finder]

I wonder If RAF Sentinel has a role in Pakistan.

 

[Scorpiooo]

I wonder If RAF Sentinel has a role in Pakistan.

How ?

 

[Path-Finder]

How ?

The video explains the role pretty well!

 

[Path-Finder]

 

[fatman17]

Saab Secures Another Erieye Customer
By
David Oliver
-
June 2, 2020


Saab 2000 Erieye AEW&C.

Saab has signed a contract and received an order for the Airborne Early Warning and Control solution Saab 2000 Erieye AEW&C (Airborne Early Warning and Control).



The order value is $164 million (1.553 billion SEK) and deliveries will be made between 2020 and 2023. Saab has said that due to circumstances concerning the product and customer, further information about the customer will not be announced.

The Saab 2000 Erieye
The Saab 2000 Erieye AEW&C system has multi-role and multi-mission capabilities for both military and civil needs. It is based on the Saab 2000 aircraft equipped with Saab’s airborne radar Erieye and a range of other sensors. The lightweight design allows Erieye to be integrated on medium-size commuter-type aircraft, like the Saab 2000 turboprop.

The solution gives the user detailed situational awareness and can be used for tasks including border surveillance and search-and-rescue operations. Flying at high altitude, Erieye covers a much wider area than a conventional ground-based sensor system. The effective surveillance area is over 500,000 square kilometres horizontally and over 60,000 feet vertically. Sea coverage is only limited by the horizon and everything from fighter aircraft, hovering helicopters, cruise missiles and jet ski-sized sea targets can be detected and tracked.

The Radar
The radar is based on Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) technology, enabling the radar energy to be adjusted according to the situation – it can be used over an extensive area or concentrated within a smaller prioritised area. The radar detects and tracks objects quickly with high precision and a high update rate. S-band technology ensures top performance in all weather conditions. The extensive COM suite secures communication with participating assets and other control centres, on the ground or in the air.

The Pakistan Air Force operates six Saab 2000 Erieye AEW&C aircraft and the Royal Saudi Air Force two. Saab will carry out the work in Gothenburg, Järfälla, Linköping, Luleå and Arboga, Sweden.

by David Oliver

 

[Armchair]

Saw some interesting information about the Saab 2000 and also saw a post on PDF by a senior thinking it would be a good idea if Pak bought the rights to the aircraft and produced them.

There are about 60 Saab 2000 in total in the world. Perhaps Pakistan could buy these and they would have a low cost aircraft for PIA to fly.

According to this interesting thread:
https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=361233

Saab 200 was ahead of its time, had better fuel economy than rivals but cost a lot due to Swedish labor costs and Saab overpricing. They are not only more fuel efficient but also cost less to operate due to lower maintenance costs.

The link also suggests that Saab 2000 came at the wrong time - with low fuel costs of the era making fuel efficiency less of a factor. If Pak can produce this aircraft, it just may be a massive entry point for Pakistan into the aircraft manufacturing game.

An interesting idea would be to use the high altitude capability of the Saab 2000 to have direct flights from Karachi, Lahore, Dubai, Doha, Jeddah, Kuwait City, Istanbul - directly to Skardu and thus create an alternative to Switzerland for tourists of the region.


Another interesting thread about the Saab 2000:
https://www.pprune.org/tech-log/10425-saab-2000-info.html