Pakistan's Airborne Early Warning and Control Aircrafts

[PAFAce]

We have 1 SAAB 2000 so far, however, it has not been inducted yet.

My knowledge is limited, there are better people who can answer your question on the forum.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

From what I have read/heard, we will be inducting 5 SAAB 2000s and 5 KJ-2000s evntually. AWACS can be extremely efficient force multipliers, but having two separate sets of AWACS systems will prevent us from using them to their fullest potential.

Therefore to answer some of the questions about their integration. I do not think its a question of if but how . Pakistan will certainly try to indigenously develop a way of ingtegrating the two systems, giving Pakistan supreme coverage and increased capability in warfare.

What i think, the reasion why PAF shortened Erieye orders are due to several reasons.
- Financel problems
- India will be ordering similar system from sweden
- PAF wont rely on one system
- Pak will gain AEW knowleage through JV with china

 

[hj786]

From what I have read/heard, we will be inducting 5 SAAB 2000s and 5 KJ-2000s evntually. AWACS can be extremely efficient force multipliers, but having two separate sets of AWACS systems will prevent us from using them to their fullest potential.

Therefore to answer some of the questions about their integration. I do not think its a question of if but how . Pakistan will certainly try to indigenously develop a way of ingtegrating the two systems, giving Pakistan supreme coverage and increased capability in warfare.

Bro, your numbers are a little off.
5 Saabs will be inducted but one of them is a trainer aircraft that does not have an Erieye radar installed, so 4 Erieye AEW/C aircraft along with one more Saab 2000 for aircrew training. The training aircraft is in Pakistan right now, first Erieye-equipped AEW/C aircraft should arrive very soon this year I believe.
About KJ-2000s. KJ-2000 is a very big platform comparable to InAF's Phalcon:
KJ-2000 Airborne Warning & Control System - SinoDefence.com
PAF is NOT going for this. From what we know, PAF is going for either one of these two platforms:

Y-8 Balance Beam (aka KJ-200): "Gaoxin Project" - Y-8 Electronic Warfare Aircraft - SinoDefence.com (scroll down to see KJ-200) which is very similar to Erieye, but less advanced.

Y-8 Rotodome: Y-8 Rotodome Airborne Early Warning Aircraft - SinoDefence.com

Four of the chosen system have been ordered, but we are still not 100% sure which has been ordered. What we do know is that the Rotodome version came to Pakistan (Chaklala airbase I think) several years ago and was evaluated by PAF (there is a picture in the gallery somewhere). They gave to the Chinese a list of improvements they wanted to be made on the aircraft, one of which apparently was to reduce the cabin sound levels to increase comfort for the radar operators.

I'm pretty sure that is all we know at the moment, anybody else please add what you know and correct me if I am wrong anywhere.

 

[blain2]

There will be no rotodome AEW platforms for the PAF. That design is no longer considered to be optimized.

 

[Quwa]

According to Usman Shabbir on PakDef, the PAF is getting 4 KJ-200 (balance beam) designated as ZDK03. Looking through Chinese sources, the PAF may develop its own AWACS in the future as China will "transfer some AWACS technology" (link).

Regarding Erieye, note that PN may not get the Hawkeye 2000 it previously requested. It is possible that PN may order 3 Erieye instead, though this is my opinion. Should note that Saab completed its feasibility studies of integrating Erieye to the ATR-series. It's interesting because the ATR-72 ASW/MP is pitched as a new-gen MPA that might interest PN when it plans to phase-out the P-3Cs. I think it would suit anyone in the long-run to maintain strong commonality with their Erieye and MPA...

http://www.flightglobal.com/article...icture-saab-unveils-c-295-erieye-concept.html

http://www.deagel.com/Maritime-Patrol-Aircraft/ATR-72-ASW_a000090004.aspx

 

[blain2]

If PN ever go for Erieye, I hope its on the exact same platform as that of the PAF. Commonality of platforms ensures that support and engineering skill sets can be shared across the two sister services to maintain these assets. More platform types mean more headaches with supply chain, engineering skills etc.

 

[Quwa]

If PN ever go for Erieye, I hope its on the exact same platform as that of the PAF. Commonality of platforms ensures that support and engineering skill sets can be shared across the two sister services to maintain these assets. More platform types mean more headaches with supply chain, engineering skills etc.

Possibly, but on the other hand would it not be better to standardize Erieye and a future MPA on the same platform? I remember H Khan on PakDef clearly stating that PN would consider replacing the P-3Cs after 2019...

In any case, I do remember the days when Pakistan was negotiating for Erieye, we hard a figure of 6 systems - 4 for PAF and 2 for PN. I think Erieye for PN is fairly possible.

 

[blain2]

I think the discussion around 4 for PAF and 2 for PN was hypothetical based on hearsay. Now I may be mistaken but do you recall hearing anything official about PN showing an interest in two aircraft? Secondly, why would PN need their own AEW aircraft? Why could PAF not attach 1 or 2 AEW aircraft to Southern Air Command to help out with the PN. The SAC already supports the PN greatly. Similar to No 8 TAS with Mirage Vs, we could provide AEW support to the PN as well.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Should note that Saab completed its feasibility studies of integrating Erieye to the ATR-series. It's interesting because the ATR-72 ASW/MP is pitched as a new-gen MPA that might interest PN when it plans to phase-out the P-3Cs. I think it would suit anyone in the long-run to maintain strong commonality with their Erieye and MPA...

PICTURE: Saab unveils C-295 Erieye concept

ATR 72 ASW / ATR 72 MP

or we could opt for SAAB-2000 MPA.

 

[Quwa]

or we could opt for SAAB-2000 MPA.

Unfortunately the Saab-2000 MPA lacks the ASW and AShW capabilities that P-3C, P-8 and ATR-72 ASW/MP have.

http://www.saabgroup.com/NR/rdonlyr...375614DFECA8/7521/Saab_2000_MPA_Datasheet.pdf

blain2

Wouldn't dedicated AEW&C/AWACS in PN complete the network-centric system to connect surface ships, aviation and sub-surface assets? Couldn't this be a burden on the PAF (unless it has more AEW&C)?

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Unfortunately the Saab-2000 MPA lacks the ASW and AShW capabilities that P-3C, P-8 and ATR-72 ASW/MP have.

http://www.saabgroup.com/NR/rdonlyr...375614DFECA8/7521/Saab_2000_MPA_Datasheet.pdf

just how could you judge a system's cabability when its just a concept? all we know that Saab is currently working on MPA, and SIGSTAR that could be of PAF/PN's interests. again, the true capability is still not known and neither will be available online.

 

[Quwa]

just how could you judge a system's cabability when its just a concept? all we know that Saab is currently working on MPA, and SIGSTAR that could be of PAF/PN's interests. again, the true capability is still not known and neither will be available online.

I can judge because the official Saab document clearly shows the reader that the Saab 2000 MPA does not have anti-surface and anti-submarine warfare capabilities. These are not secret abilities that would make one aircraft a decisive choice over another, but simply profiles directed towards potential customers.

In fact the Saab 2000 MPA is for customers who are interested in the following as per their official document:

• Tasked identification of maritime targets
• Maritime Surveillance and Reconnaissance (MSAR)
• Maritime border security
• Counter smuggling surveillance
• Search and Rescue (SAR)
• Illegal immigration control
• Fisheries inspection and management
• Oil slick investigation

....so do you see anything about anti-ship (AShW) or anti-submarine (ASW) warfare on the list?

 

[Myth_buster_1]

I can judge because the official Saab document clearly shows the reader that the Saab 2000 MPA does not have anti-surface and anti-submarine warfare capabilities. These are not secret abilities that would make one aircraft a decisive choice over another, but simply profiles directed towards potential customers.
....so do you see anything about anti-ship (AShW) or anti-submarine (ASW) warfare on the list?

like i have said, saab-2000 mpa is just a concept at the moment and could envolve into a multi-role armed version with RBS-15 and torpedoes as Swed would like to have a dedicated AShW and ASW MPA system of their own.
lets not for sake of winning the argument downplay other systems.

one other worthy of notice. P-3C upgrade III should have 20+ years of service in PN but atlantique is what we should be expecting to be replaced by either ATR-72 or saab-2000 MPA in near future. and i think Saab-MPA could have a better chance if they come up with AShW ASW multi-role system and that PN choices Erieye.

 

[Arsalan]

If PN ever go for Erieye, I hope its on the exact same platform as that of the PAF. Commonality of platforms ensures that support and engineering skill sets can be shared across the two sister services to maintain these assets. More platform types mean more headaches with supply chain, engineering skills etc.

thats right sir but will the system be good enough for both services,,, i mean i it is ment to be an airforce or land security aircraft will it be equally good for the sea warfare,,
if it is so ot will be really great, rather in this case pakistan should have opted for one kind of system for both

please excuse my ignorance

 

[Arsalan]

so to conclude we can say that currently we are not operating any such system, not with the airforce nor with navy,,

am i right??