Pakistan's Actual status : Why Khan was really kicked out and their backers

[TheSolution]

IK’s foreign policy could have been better, I agree. He had a good relation with Trump after the US visit but should have consolidated this relationship.

Secondly, IK did not visit UK. He could have used his relationship to leverage better ties with UK.

With the Middle East, again he could have tackled this better. The issue of Islamophobia was a good start but again the foreign ministry should have translated it further. Big positive was that there were 2 OIC meets in Islamabad in a short period of time.

It’s good to sell the narrative that Pakistan needs to stand up on its own feet but having good relationship with the West pays dividends. And plus it helps the GHQ in check, to a certain degree.

I have a sneaky feeling IK knew about Arab states role in undermining his government.

Why would the UAE facilitate a meeting between Bajwa Faiz and Hussain Haqqani?

But again a discussion for another day.

IK was putting the cart before the horse, meaning he was making decisions and demands but with nothing to back it up (incredibly weak economy, no leverage)

It has been revealed with the whole Russia trip fucked up a lot of optics and Pakistan was taking a stance that it couldn't afford (quite literally in this sense)

I think it was at that point, he wasn't exactly threatened, but the US ambassador essentially told the COAS or whoever that he was being naive and making unsustainable decisions.

It's obvious the Sharifs are preferred because they make the best spokes people, they just repeat the main narrative with little personal input.

Although honestly I would prefer Kakar over the Sharifs.

 

[Black.Mamba]

IK’s foreign policy could have been better, I agree. He had a good relation with Trump after the US visit but should have consolidated this relationship.

Secondly, IK did not visit UK. He could have used his relationship to leverage better ties with UK.

With the Middle East, again he could have tackled this better. The issue of Islamophobia was a good start but again the foreign ministry should have translated it further. Big positive was that there were 2 OIC meets in Islamabad in a short period of time.

It’s good to sell the narrative that Pakistan needs to stand up on its own feet but having good relationship with the West pays dividends. And plus it helps the GHQ in check, to a certain degree.

I have a sneaky feeling IK knew about Arab states role in undermining his government.

Why would the UAE facilitate a meeting between Bajwa Faiz and Hussain Haqqani?

But again a discussion for another day.

Arab states cannot afford an independent Pakistan. Top military brass is keeping all their ill gotten money in Arab states, almost all of them reside in Arab states after retirement

By changing 8-10 Finance Secretaries, 3-4 Finance Ministers, making videos of NAB Chairman, firing FIA Chairman for not creating false cases against his opposition, appointing an import from IMF on IMF dictation as SBP Governor etc., etc., etc., destroying the PKR, destroying the economy, not establishing a single thing worthwhile but regularization of his own Bani Gala house and Grand Hyatt Islamabad????

Changing facts will not make your argument correct. None of what you wrote is true

And the baby did not know that he was sitting in the lap of the Generals who lifted this nobody (political) to power, to the post of PM? How gullible can you all be??

Talking about Nawaz Sharif? but it was the provincial ministry first, then chief ministry and eventually prime ministry. How gullible are you?

 

[Olympus81]

IK was putting the cart before the horse, meaning he was making decisions and demands but with nothing to back it up (incredibly weak economy, no leverage)

It has been revealed with the whole Russia trip fucked up a lot of optics and Pakistan was taking a stance that it couldn't afford (quite literally in this sense)

I think it was at that point, he wasn't exactly threatened, but the US ambassador essentially told the COAS or whoever that he was being naive and making unsustainable decisions.

It's obvious the Sharifs are preferred because they make the best spokes people, they just repeat the main narrative with little personal input.

Although honestly I would prefer Kakar over the Sharifs.

You make some fair points.

The Russian visit was a sane one, I think. All these years Pakistan never made overtures to Russia, that in itself is a cardinal sin. And plus in the midst of a commodity super cycle, a chance for a 30% discount on crude.

The timing was unfortunately off. Nobody really knew it would be on the eve of Russian invasion of Ukraine. But I feel IK was right to move ahead. Remember Bajwa, at face value, did not have qualms about it.

The cipher pressure could have been withstood. I am sure in the past Americans would have sent these kind of messages to Pakistan. But if the Chief, PM would have been on one page, nothing would have happened.

But we now know Bajwa was scheming all along. Meeting with Khwaja Asif, meeting with Shahbaz Sharif when he would visit Bajwa under the trunk, Bajwa making videos to pressure PTI/IK, Bajwa meeting Hussain Haqqani to lobby against PTI etc. All part of the COAS game of deception and treason.

 

[TheSolution]

Arab states cannot afford an independent Pakistan. Top military brass is keeping all their ill gotten money in Arab states, almost all of them reside in Arab states after retirement

Pakistan cannot afford an independent Pakistan. This is the most important thing everyone here ignores.

When you take decisions towards having a firm stance that goes against large power's interests, you have to be prepared for the consequences. What does a Pakistan on the verge of bankruptcy, surviving on remittances and loans, barely any industrialisation, little natural resources or oil leverage, no leading producer of critical technology have to leverage or be relevant?

Pakistan can be put on FATF black list, sanctioned, and you'd crumble into civil war within a few months to a year due to economic collapse. Living like North Korea is what the current version of "independent Pakistan" would look like, not like China.

 

[Olympus81]

Pakistan cannot afford an independent Pakistan. This is the most important thing everyone here ignores.

When you take decisions towards having a firm stance that goes against large power's interests, you have to be prepared for the consequences. What does a Pakistan on the verge of bankruptcy, surviving on remittances and loans, barely any industrialisation, little natural resources or oil leverage, no leading producer of critical technology have to leverage or be relevant?

Pakistan can be put on FATF black list, sanctioned, and you'd crumble into civil war within a few months to a year due to economic collapse. Living like North Korea is what the current version of "independent Pakistan" would look like, not like China.

That’s the crux.

I believe despite all the potential blowbacks, Pakistan could have treaded these stormy waters.

Let’s just transpose to a parallel universe. Post Russian visit, the cipher pressure could have been withstood.

Pakistan starts getting crude at 30% discount. The COAS staying within his constitutional parameters and just kept quiet. PTI wouldn’t have needed to freeze petrol prices, as they did it because their government was under threat.

Pakistan could have managed its relations with US, saying the relationship with Russia is purely economical and there is no strategic realignment. (Pakistan went ahead with CPEC, despite US qualms)

FATF eventually would have been green as from a technical standpoint was moving well. Maybe under PTI, Pakistan wouldn’t have got FATF green light, that could have been a possibility.

Things on the economic front would have been OK, with most indicators being stable, except for inflation which would have remained high. CAD offset by increasing exports / remittances and reduced subsidy on oil.

And then elections would have come in 2023/2024.

But, now, here we are!

 

[TheSolution]

That’s the crux.

I believe despite all the potential blowbacks, Pakistan could have treaded these stormy waters.

Let’s just transpose to a parallel universe. Post Russian visit, the cipher pressure could have been withstood.

Pakistan starts getting crude at 30% discount. The COAS staying within his constitutional parameters and just kept quiet. PTI wouldn’t have needed to freeze petrol prices, as they did it because their government was under threat.

Pakistan could have managed its relations with US, saying the relationship with Russia is purely economical and there is no strategic realignment. (Pakistan went ahead with CPEC, despite US qualms)

FATF eventually would have been green as from a technical standpoint was moving well. Maybe under PTI, Pakistan wouldn’t have got FATF green light, that could have been a possibility.

Things on the economic front would have been OK, with most indicators being stable, except for inflation which would have remained high.

And then elections would have come in 2023/2024.

But, now, here we are!

Pakistan's economy is a ticking time bomb, not sustainable at all. Needs to be treated like when we were desperate to acquire nukes by all means necessary.

When it comes to being truly independent, a healthy & large economy is the other side of the coin to having a powerful military.

We only (just barely) have half the equation in military might

 

[Olympus81]

We only (just barely) have half the equation in military might

A strong army is only as good as its leadership. At this point, its clear where their loyalty lies.

Hence, Pakistan has a dump economy and an army leadership whose loyalty is severely compromised.

Best one could hope for is the 2nd tier leadership bides their time and course corrects when they are promoted.

 

[Clutch]

This is a must watch for Pakistan loving people ... WSK revealed perhaps more than he should

Only an invasion from Afghanistan can free Pakistanis from the tyranny of the Khakis...

 

[Olympus81]

Only an invasion from Afghanistan can free Pakistanis from the tyranny of the Khakis...

That’ll be even more f-cked up, bro!

 

[TheSolution]

A strong army is only as good as its leadership. At this point, its clear where their loyalty lies.

Hence, Pakistan has a dump economy and an army leadership whose loyalty is severely compromised.

Agreed, spineless and incredibly incompetent, nepotistic babbus through and through. A joke compared to global counterparts in reality. They've just been pampered by Americans hence they hold their positions in all honesty.

The Air Force is the one true branch that is worthy of respect, has a spine and it has always delivered, historically it has been quite a competent institution too.

 

[PradoTLC]

IK was putting the cart before the horse, meaning he was making decisions and demands but with nothing to back it up (incredibly weak economy, no leverage)

It has been revealed with the whole Russia trip fucked up a lot of optics and Pakistan was taking a stance that it couldn't afford (quite literally in this sense)

I think it was at that point, he wasn't exactly threatened, but the US ambassador essentially told the COAS or whoever that he was being naive and making unsustainable decisions.

It's obvious the Sharifs are preferred because they make the best spokes people, they just repeat the main narrative with little personal input.

Although honestly I would prefer Kakar over the Sharifs.

well that is your opinion ..

IK got it right.. the rest as history will judge them as bad guys in all of this.

Only an invasion from Afghanistan can free Pakistanis from the tyranny of the Khakis...

perhaps...

 

[PradoTLC]

The Russia, Turkey and Malaysia of the world won't save you.

lol

you didn't understand what he was doing..

he was building long term relationships based on mutual interest

take Russia eg he negogiated favourable oil prices from Putin who gave him a 3 hour audience ( Nawaz despite all his begging could not get more than 5 min) that too on the day of Russian invasion.

now think with getting has 30% cheaper was it not in Pakistan interest?

at the end of the day Pakistan will collapse or take 30-50% hit in the standard of living without China, USA and Saudi Arabia. The Russia, Turkey and Malaysia of the world won't save you.



He became PM working with the army to topple unpopular but democratically elected government. I am surprised he got a taste of his own medicine

topple ?


lol x 10

you did know PML did complete its term?.. also heard of Panama papers?


seriously get your basic info right before arguing with us

 

[nahtanbob]

lol

you didn't understand what he was doing..

he was building long term relationships based on mutual interest

take Russia eg he negogiated favourable oil prices from Putin who gave him a 3 hour audience ( Nawaz despite all his begging could not get more than 5 min) that too on the day of Russian invasion.

How much does Pakistan make exporting to Turkey and Malaysia ? How much does Pakistan get in benefits from Saudi Arabia ? It does not have to mutually exclusive. Imran Khan made it look that way.

Russia did not give Pakistan anything. India was the one that reaped the discounts.

 

[PradoTLC]

How much does Pakistan make exporting to Turkey and Malaysia ? How much does Pakistan get in benefits from Saudi Arabia ? It does not have to mutually exclusive. Imran Khan made it look that way.

Russia did not give Pakistan anything. India was the one that reaped the discounts.

Russia didn't give any thing?.. no shit .. we didn't know


like I said do your homework first.

 

[Olympus81]

The problem with alot people here is they view foreign relations in terms of a binary concept.

Oh why should Pakistan align towards Malaysia, Turkey because they don’t provide anything to Pakistan. Or on the flip side, why should Pakistan align towards US when they’ve done things in the past.

Pakistan, as a country has limited options, and conceptually it made sense from a foreign policy perspective for Pakistan to keep a non aligned status. (Direct conflict with Establishment’s foreign policy course)

What does that mean, one might ask. It means,

Pakistan improves relations with Russia and get oil discounts, use their steel expertise to help Pakistan, procurement of Russian commodities.

Pakistan improves relations with Middle East and broaden its trade and investments.

Pakistan improves relations with US by making overtures with the Biden government.

Pakistan improves relations with China and broaden its trade and investments from China.

But the COAS had different ideas. He committed treason by going directly against the government foreign policy direction and made sure Pakistan remains a rentier state. Suffice to say, when you have duffers driving Pakistan’s foreign policy, this is what you get.