Pakistan's #1 Ally Is...

[A1Kaid]

When I first started this thread I did not imagine it would be this popular.

Thanks for debating & discussing this topic.

 

[Neo]

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned that the US have given Musharraf/Pakistan 10 billion dollars after 9/11, and the F-16 deal, I guess these are not registering enough to make people think usa is a serious ally...

No point intended. Just bringing up some facts.

What are you talking about??

$10 billion is the total amount US has spent on fighting the WoT in Pakistan since 9/11 sofar, about $7 billion covers the costs of logistical support and some $3 billion has been pumped into national treasury, most of it to serve budgetary deficiency and monetary issues.

 

[S-2]

I'm looking at your data. Thank you.

Will the PRC become Pakistan's primary export destination in that time?

 

[dabong1]

Don't openly display your ignorance with me.:

The gold medal for ignorance must go to yourself..........your total lack of knowlege on the subject is amazing.
I salute your stupidity...........must not be a shock to yourself ,considering your an american.

Afghan veterans? See any tajiks, uzbeks, turkomen, hazaras, balouchis in the taliban? No? Didn't think so. How about Sayyaf? Umm...Haqqani (pashtu)? Hekmatyar (pashtu)?.:

Hekmatyar is a pushtoon was totally anti taliban during the taliban rule......mr expert

Going of your logic it must have the tajiks, uzbeks, turkomen, hazaras, balouchis that where killing,raping,stealing ect before the "pushtoon" taliban came and put a stop to it.
Let me guess you think that pre taliban afghanistan where the warlords ruled was a nice peaceful place:


Here is a recent report of a tajik joining the taliban......if there joining them now what makes you think they where not in the taliban before........sorry forgot,you have been brainwashed by the media.

Ghulam Yahya Akbari, a former Tajik mayor of Herat joins the taliban.
YouTube - Afghanistan's new anti-government groups - 01 Aug 08

Fairly, all afghan veterans of the taliban are pashtu. Beyond that you're out on a limb.

What's your point anyway? Majority? 52%? 55%?)

Whats your point..?.....there where no pushtoons fighting in the war?

A nonsensical rant by an irhabi wannabe.

Cant answer the point?

You should be so lucky to "lose" in our manner. Pray for the day you can do so.

Better get on your knees and wish the day never comes for yourself....... BOY!

 

[Neo]

I'm looking at your data. Thank you.

Will the PRC become Pakistan's primary export destination in that time?

Yes in time it will. We're working on Pakistan to serve as a hub for Chinese trade, a lot of development is going on in Western China and Pakistan provides the shortest route to Arabian Sea.

The $72 billion Copper and Gold mining project in Balochistan will have China as main customer, the mines will be operational in 2010-11.

Gwadar, a Sino-Pak JV has just been declared a tax free zone for investors and traders for 20 years, the idea is to develop it as a hub for import for petro-chemicals and re-export to developped nations. Its will also become a metalurgical hub for the region, again China and CAR being the main customers.

 

[dabong1]

Yes in time it will. We're working on Pakistan to serve as a hub for Chinese trade, a lot of development is going on in Western China and Pakistan provides the shortest route to Arabian Sea.

The $72 billion Copper and Gold mining project in Balochistan will have China as main customer, the mines will be operational in 2010-11.

Gwadar, a Sino-Pak JV has just been declared a tax free zone for investors and traders for 20 years, the idea is to develop it as a hub for import for petro-chemicals and re-export to developped nations. Its will also become a metalurgical hub for the region, again China and CAR being the main customers.

Just a little point you probably know........Gwadar will also serve as the main port for all african imports.
With the recent deals china has made with african countries it needs Gwadar to import all the raw goods for its factories.

 

[S-2]

"Let me guess you think that pre taliban afghanistan where the warlords ruled was a nice peaceful place:"

I think that it was a nasty civil war.

"Hekmatyar is a pushtoon was totally anti taliban during the taliban rule......mr expert"

No kidding. I thought that all the afghan veterans were pashtu and all pashtu became taliban according to you-

Oh those horrible N.A. boys. Reminds me when the taliban captured Mazur-I-Sharif. Methinks you a taliban apologist, laddie. That's cool. Somebody needs to be their dupe. The charge sheet against the taliban is too long to quote but I'd be happy to if necessary. It doesn't read well at all.

No souls or lives saved by those azzholes.

Oil barons? UNOCAL? Where's that U.S. gov't recognition and the dates? Didn't think so. Lose again.

 

[A1Kaid]

If I really wanted to I would enter this debate and under the banner of Greatness somebody who will go unnamed would have been crushed!

[Someone's Name Here] Is lucky, that I don't enter this textual battlefield and force you to capitulate.

 

[Najam Khan]

I have voted for China because i believe the Saying A friend in need is a friend indeed. They have always helped us in the hour of need in mid 60s the gave us F-6s at very low cost,then in mid 80s A-5s for ground support and F-7s in end of 80s.Similarly the have done great help in our nuclear programme and the best thing about both countries is that they don't even show how far they have gone in this field.And they have done great investment in Pakistan in past decades.

But when in comes to talk about Pak-Us relation,every Pakistani has doubts in it,the reason being the in-stable condition from their side,both country's leadership try to come close to each other but the concept of a true friendship is not present in masses,because we feel that US will betray us in the hour of need thats what they did in the past....i think i don't need to go in detail its on paper!

 

[S-2]

"If I really wanted to I would enter this debate and under the banner of Greatness somebody who will go unnamed would have been crushed!

[Someone's Name Here] Is lucky, that I don't enter this textual battlefield and force you to capitulate."

Hmmm...you mean lil' ol' moi? I don't take well to oblique threats so let's pre-empt the nonsense, stud. Bet you sleep under a mirror just to bask in the reflection of your "Greatness". If so, how wonderful that the first thing you'll see upon awakening is...yourself.

That's fine, O great one, but let's be clear on the terms of capitulation for this thread which you've started but to date have refused your full and presumably impressive weight. Should I "capitulate", it would only mean that I admit that America isn't your #1 ally. Big deal.

At present, I'm totally fine with that admission. If my nation IS your #1 ally, that may no longer be wise. Political distance from Pakistan just now seems an eminently sensible thing.

You're an academic/scholar. Good. Then you easily understand the word pariah and the geo-political concept failed state.

The chinese have an ominous blessing with which I'll take some literary license- I suspect that shortly your nation shall live in interesting times.

Thank God that you still have the Chinese.

You may soon be able to guage the true usefulness of that relationship.

 

[dabong1]

"Let me guess you think that pre taliban afghanistan where the warlords ruled was a nice peaceful place:"

I think that it was a nasty civil war.

"Hekmatyar is a pushtoon was totally anti taliban during the taliban rule......mr expert"

No kidding. I thought that all the afghan veterans were pashtu and all pashtu became taliban according to you-.

"majority of the veterans of the afghan jihad joined the taliban."

Nobody said every pushtoon joined the taliban.

Oh those horrible N.A. boys. Reminds me when the taliban captured Mazur-I-Sharif. Methinks you a taliban apologist, laddie. That's cool. Somebody needs to be their dupe. The charge sheet against the taliban is too long to quote but I'd be happy to if necessary. It doesn't read well at all..

Please do........i can assure you the majority of you accusations you throw at the taliban will be just cheap propaganda.....which i will throw back at your face.
The NA did a really good jod while they where in charge....not

No souls or lives saved by those azzholes...

The honour of being total azzholes must go to the US army.

Oil barons? UNOCAL? Where's that U.S. gov't recognition and the dates? Didn't think so. Lose again.

Are you really that stupid that you vcan not see the link betwen the taliban agreeing a deal with a US oil company and being recognizedby the US.
Answer the question fool......would you let Iran agree oil deal in texas!

 

[S-2]

"Are you really that stupid that you vcan not see the link betwen the taliban agreeing a deal with a US oil company and being recognizedby the US."

No deal made nor formal recognition by my government.

Three nations. KSA, Pakistan, and U.A.E. Nobody but.

That's plain enough.

"Please do........i can assure you the majority of you accusations you throw at the taliban will be just cheap propaganda"

HRW has done a fine job documenting their crimes and it's easily googled.

 

[Rafael]

Actually, you are disagreeing with me and trade DOES matter to a nation that's looking for dollars under every rock. I've STILL not received an answer on that Beijing trip by Zardari. Don't really need one though. Self evident what happened there. You were stiffed in a HUGE way-with smiles and toasts. Nothing like a Chinese banquet, though, to salve the sensibilities... to numbness.

Since you don't care, though, then you won't miss it if we shifted all those trade dollars in textiles over to the Indonesians and Egyptians. In fact, Webmaster, I'm stunned that you haven't made a principled stand on something so practically irrelevant and REFUSED us your bluejeans- at any price!

TRADE, btw, was just part of the equation-albeit too often forgotten and still so by you. Naturally, with such a disparity between us and your next closest partner, you'd diminish it. Why not? Doesn't help your case at all.

You'll have to pardon me. Been away for a few and missed you guys. Thought that I'd just say hello in my inimicable way.

You're never far from my walle...errr, heart.

hey mate, america is the biggest consumer of chinese products, does that mean u love them? or are they your allies? and viceversa....

 

[gpit]

"wtf you know about us ?"

Go back to Pakistan. You must be without honor to live here amidst us and hate America so. Shame on your narrow greed. You must return, pick up a weapon and march to Afghanistan to meet your grisly fate at the hands of one of those "...soliders [sic] rite out of High School...".

Unfortunately, you have no power/rights to ask somebody to do so but to mouth-water petulantly.

if he is going back to Pakistan, where are you going back? Europe?

Everybody is greedy to some extent. It is the greediness of europeans that they came to America.

Hiring from high school is a very benight statement. US army are actually hiring from criminals! http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/20/opinion/20tues1.html?_r=2&oref=slogin

To keep filling the ranks, the Army has had to keep lowering its expectations. Diluting educational, aptitude and medical standards has not been enough. Nor have larger enlistment bonuses plugged the gap. So the Army has found itself recklessly expanding the granting of “moral waivers,” which let people convicted of serious misdemeanors and even some felonies enlist in its ranks.

Last year, such waivers were granted to 8,129 men and women — or more than one out of every 10 new Army recruits. That number is up 65 percent since 2003, the year President Bush ordered the invasion of Iraq. In the last three years, more than 125,000 moral waivers have been granted by America’s four military services.

Most of last year’s Army waivers were for serious misdemeanors, like aggravated assault, robbery, burglary and vehicular homicide. But around 900 — double the number in 2003 — were for felonies. Worse, the Army does no systematic tracking of recruits with waivers once it signs them up, and it does not always pay enough attention to any adjustment problems. Without adequate monitoring and counseling, handing out guns to people who have already committed crimes poses a danger to the other soldiers they serve with and to the innocent civilians they are supposed to protect.

.....

The greatness of US is not built upon peevishness, not arrogance, but rationality.

Money can hire people to work but can not buy their heart.

Thus, I vote for China per the topic: as facts of my understanding stand.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Times of India

Chinese army team arrives in Belgaum for joint exercise
4 Dec 2008, 2146 hrs IST, PTI

NEW DELHI: Continuing its efforts to enhance defence cooperation with China, India will host a 147-member Chinese Army contingent in Belgaum
beginning Saturday for a fortnight-long military exercise.

The Chinese team arrived in Belgaum this morning to participate in the second edition of the 'Hand-in-Hand' joint army exercise, Army sources said.

The military exercise is in continuation of the ongoing army-to-army cooperation between the two neighbours as part of the annual defence dialogue, which commenced in 2006.

Soon after landing in Pune, the Chinese men and stores were transported to Belgaum in six Indian Air Force (IAF) aircraft, sources said.

A high-ranking PLA delegation as well as senior Indian Army officers are expected to visit the exercise venue as 'observers' to view the proceedings of the joint training exercise, they said.

During the exercise, Chinese troops from the 1st Company of Infantry Battalion of Chengdu Military Area Command and the Indian Army troops from 8 Maratha Light Infantry Battalion will undergo joint tactical manoeuvres and drills; interoperability training; and joint command post procedures, finally culminating in a joint counter-terrorist operational exercise with simulated enemy.

The exercise is planned at mixed company group-level with command and control elements from the respective battalions' headquarters.