Pakistani Nationalism - contradictions?

[Yankee-stani]

Wishful thinking on your part. We are in fact closer ethnically to Turks, Persians, and Afghans due to the ethnic makeup of our nation whom were mainly migrants from Turkic, Irani, Mongol tribes.

You are trying to further your political cause of trying to undue Pakistan by misrepresenting us.

We want nothing to do with you, why is that so hard to understand?

No use debating yanks let them bask in ignorence

 

[The Accountant]

Doesn't virtually every country or the idea behind every country has had contradictions?

Take the most powerful....the U.S.A

"All men created equal" yet it exluded millions of African Americans who were still held as slaves more than 80 years after the American revolution.

Take India.....why is Assam part of India but not Nepal?

Take China.....the modern Chinese state was built upon the ideas of virtually one man that is Mao. But to Mao, modern China would be unrecognisable. It took the Chinese state to virtually take a U-TURN from the ideology of its founding father to turn around the fortunes of the country. Yet its still officially very much Mao's country.

The fact is Pakistan needs the cloak of religion to stay together at least for the time being. Does this mean this will provide certain contradictions?

The answer is yes.

Does this mean Pakistan will forever be defined by this central ideology?

The answer is not necessarily.

You nailed it bro ... but right now we need as the persons like me who believe that Pakistan was created for islam are way too much high as of today ...

 

[nahtanbob]

Wishful thinking on your part. We are in fact closer ethnically to Turks, Persians, and Afghans due to the ethnic makeup of our nation whom were mainly migrants from Turkic, Irani, Mongol tribes.

You are trying to further your political cause of trying to undue Pakistan by misrepresenting us.

We want nothing to do with you, why is that so hard to understand?

You can pretend all you want. In UK you are clubbed as Asian with Indians. You are treated like Indians in Gulf Arab states. In USA you are classified as Asian because Indians are classified as Asians. Your Iranian, Arab and Turkish brothers are classified as Caucasian.

Since when does the world look at me as an Indian.

The world looks at us as South Asian.

Which countries qualify as South Asian ?

South Asian is a geographical term. When was the last time you saw a South Asian restaurant or South Asian carpet ?

I see a White dude - I call them White or Caucasian. No one calls them European.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

No use debating yanks let them bask in ignorence

They mock us for being Turk-Persians as they like, and at other times claim we are like them.

Which is it?

They can’t accept the fact that we are the inheritors of our fathers and their fathers before them. We are sons of this soil.

These propagandists are trying to disenfranchise Kashmiris the same way.

The whole world sees through it.

 

[The Accountant]

I do not see any contradictions. Hell there are umpteen Latin American countries. I could not tell you why each one exists. at one point you stood for all Muslims living in Indian subcontinent. Right now you represent Muslims living in Northwestern portion of Indian subcontinent. the only contradictions is that some of you like to pretend you are distinctly different. the rest of the world in general looks at you as "Indian". that is not as bad as the ones who pretend they are Turkish or Afghan or Arab

First of all what we consider ourselves is important and not how the world sees us ...

World sees on the basis of our physical features ... even those are way different then indians ... if you compare a pakhtoon with indian people will only laugh at you ... if you compare a balouch with indian then makrani baloch are much closer to oman and iran and hardyl has anythinv common with india whereas pakhtoon baloch resembles pathan ... sindhis are totally different ...

Its only part of punjab that resembles indian punjab and some parts of sindh ...

Furrhermore my nationality is not something which based on my physical feature but based on my national belief system ... if i belief myself to be distinct from india then no matter what a tom dic and harry living in US who has never been to my land call me ... he may call me whatever he want ... for example me there is no difference between polish people and german people ... for me both are european .... does this means they have same nationality ?

 

[nahtanbob]

First of all what we consider ourselves is important and not how the world sees us ...

World sees on the basis of our physical features ... even those are way different then indians ... if you compare a pakhtoon with indian people will only laugh at you ... if you compare a balouch with indian then makrani baloch are much closer to oman and iran and hardyl has anythinv common with india whereas pakhtoon baloch resembles pathan ... sindhis are totally different ...

Its only part of punjab that resembles indian punjab and some parts of sindh ...

Furrhermore my nationality is not something which based on my physical feature but based on my national belief system ... if i belief myself to be distinct from india then no matter what a tom dic and harry living in US who has never been to my land call me ... he may call me whatever he want ... for example me there is no difference between polish people and german people ... for me both are european .... does this means they have same nationality ?

the discussion is moot if you do not care about others perception

In Europe poles and germans are different. The question is how are they perceived in smaller numbers in societies abroad. With one of my previous employers we classified all European immigrant engineers as European. That included a couple of Italians, a frenchman, a german and a polish. It is not like any of them protested

 

[The Accountant]

the discussion is moot if you do not care about others perception

In Europe poles and germans are different. The question is how are they perceived in smaller numbers in societies abroad. With one of my previous employers we classified all European immigrant engineers as European. That included a couple of Italians, a frenchman, a german and a polish. It is not like any of them protested

Try calling German a french and france and tell me he is fine with it ...

For persons living outside Pakistan it might be Ok as the expect that you have no knowledge about this but it does not mean that in reality we do not have separate identity ... You can say that as you are not aware of nationality of all 200 coutnries therefore you might broadly classify them ... This is lack of knowledge on your part but in reality Pakistan and India are two entirely separate countries and have different nationality ... If your don't recognize than its your lack of knowledge and not based on facts ...

 

[MultaniGuy]

You can pretend all you want. In UK you are clubbed as Asian with Indians. You are treated like Indians in Gulf Arab states. In USA you are classified as Asian because Indians are classified as Asians. Your Iranian, Arab and Turkish brothers are classified as Caucasian.



Which countries qualify as South Asian ?

South Asian is a geographical term. When was the last time you saw a South Asian restaurant or South Asian carpet ?

I see a White dude - I call them White or Caucasian. No one calls them European.

Countries from Afghanistan to Bangladesh are South Asian.

 

[Yankee-stani]

They mock us for being Turk-Persians as they like, and at other times claim we are like them.

Which is it?

They can’t accept the fact that we are the inheritors of our fathers and their fathers before them. We are sons of this soil.

These propagandists are trying to disenfranchise Kashmiris the same way.

The whole world sees through it.

Again no use talking to Yanks or Gangas trolls tbh

 

[The Accountant]

Countries from Afghanistan to Bangladesh are South Asian.

Small correction with in principal agreement with you ...
Afghanistan was never part of south asia ... it was either an independent region of khurasan or was under influence of greater persian empire ...

 

[MultaniGuy]

Small correction with in principal agreement with you ...
Afghanistan was never part of south asia ... it was either an independent region of khurasan or was under influence of greater persian empire ...

Are you suggesting Afghanistan is a Middle Eastern nation.

Check definition of South Asia.

According to Wikipedia.

 

[The Accountant]

Are you suggesting Afghanistan is a Middle Eastern nation.

Check definition of South Asia.

According to Wikipedia.

Well i cerrainly disagree with you ... pakhtuns have no cultural similarties with peiple of south asia and whenever they came to attack india they were always considered as an outsider ...

Khurasan which is the original historical region was never even included in any form in sub continent ...

Unless pakhtoons themselves invaded south asian states ...

 

[MultaniGuy]

Well i cerrainly disagree with you ... pakhtuns have no cultural similarties with peiple of south asia and whenever they came to attack india they were always considered as an outsider ...

Khurasan which is the original historical region was never even included in any form in sub continent ...

Unless pakhtoons themselves invaded south asian states ...

Okay that is your opinion. There are more Pathans in Pakistan than in Afghanistan. So that's that.

 

[The Accountant]

Okay that is your opinion. There are more Pathans in Pakistan than in Afghanistan. So that's that.

Lets agree to disagree ... kpk recently became part of Pakistan ... historically it was part of khurasan ...

And the reven history is slightly different as mughals were basically from khurasan afghanistan ...

 

[Destranator]

As I have mentioned many times I am an Ottoman from the 19th century living in the 21st one!!!! And, I live far away from both Turkey and Pak with no persistent organic connections.....

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