Pakistani Fashion

[vsdoc]

Sorry for butting in again but I sense a good moderate vs conservative vs fundamentalist/puritanical (we need some to join up) debate.

By the age of 10 most of the children have their values embeded in their brain reagrding good bad, moral immoral etc.

True. And a child is moulded by his/her immediate environment which slowly expands as he grows up - his parents, his family, his school, his peers, and finally by society.

As parents we try our best and give them what is right and wrong, what is good and bad, but even beyond that, kids are just amazing observant intelligent sponges which just soak up all visual, behavioral, moral, social, attitudnal, and situational cues around them.

may be i was born conservative, but what is the defination of extremism on both fronts? change is always required to improve n most people resist it but again where is the balance n what is the defination of it?

But it is equally not true that you are necessarily a mirror of your parents. We are all unique individuals with our own moral systems. No one is born conservative or liberal or puritanical. Its also pretty easy to proclaim oneself to be a liberal when you are young and in college and leading a carefree/wild life.

A whole different perspective and cup of tea if you will once you have kids of your own, especially girls, and they start growing up. I find myself and my wife having numerous conversations/debates about this increasingly as my elder daughter grows up (she is still just 8 ) and I would be lying if I said that there isn't the temptation to have double standards - between your college day values and your parental ones, and your way of looking at your son versus your daughter.

Long Skirts are the most beautiful dress for me n i love them above all, their is nothing worng in Westren culture as long as they fall within decency, but the defination of balance is not what u think is right but adapting to the society u live in, their norms and values.

"beauty need no ornaments"

what u see around urself these days, almost naked women.

Contrary to what Jana thinks of us (kidding! ), I'm not much of a nudist myself. I think a sari is the most glamorous dress draped well on a lady who is built like a lady (versus many models today).

But the point here is that this is Fashion ..... in its way it is live art and the designers are artists. It need not constrain itself to real life needs and situations, nor to the social and moral standards of sections of society.

No one says real-life women need to or necessarily would wear these clothes on the streets. But these are professionals (not "whores" as some enlightened gentleman referred to them as) of a serious industry. This is their job.

Its the garment that is being showcased, not the wearer. And there is a lot of money and recognition riding on shows like these ..... for Pakistan and Pakistanis. So there is some skin on display ..... big deal. I did not find any to be in poor taste or vulgar.

n here u got it all wrong, lady there is an element of respect i always assosicate with womens if that goes missing somehow then it becomes temptation n u definately dont wanna fall into later category. lets not play into men hand, n u sees the news in westren culture these days of women abuse.

Think of ur mother, sisters, bahbis, etc before even thinking n attributing these words. These words are insulting.

Here is where I completely lost you. Your respect for a woman should not be dependent on the clothes she chooses to wear. You are stereotyping and being judgmental.

And your line of thinking that women who dress "provocatively" (open to definition) are asking for and inviting (and dare I add the unsaid but insinuated - deserving of) abuse is where I totally part ways friend.

And living in the UK, do you think woman abuse is only a Western phenomenon ..... and is wholly or partially attributable to the clothes their women wear? If so I have news for you from back home!

Also, what about the mothers and bhabhis. Do you want a 20-something to dress like her mother/aunt/bhabhi? Why?

Now I am waiting for some Pakistani maulanas here to berate my Indian values and morals.

Btw, on a totally different tangent ..... Pakistani women have striking facial bone structure. I have been closely checking out the noses and cheekbones on all ..... hope that is ok maulana sahebs?

Cheers, Doc

 

[SecularHumanist]

The problem is that some people intend on viewing the ENTIRE body of women as private parts, hence the belief in covering everything. God bless the people who want women to dress up as ninjas

 

[DaRk WaVe]

The problem is that some people intend on viewing the ENTIRE body of women as private parts, hence the belief in covering everything. God bless the people who want women to dress up as ninjas

 

[mhacsan]

thats also depends on how u define 'decency'
Look there are clothes there which people consider unethical & most of the ppl in Pak dont wear it, but whats wrong in displaying it,
Can't u people see the traditional ones, There is no Extremist kinda thing here, If u don't want to see these clothes, buy or wear it, Then don't no one is forcing u do it

Well i told u a simple truth, its a fact
who's playing into men hands, For God sake, These are just Dresses, There is no Pornography going on over here, Don't exaggerate things

look dont get me worng here, i appreciate Emo effort for all this pics digging n uploading them n some of the dresses are very gorgeous n appluad to her fot the choices of outfits she picked to demostrate n they will definately make women look attractive n i would definately have some of them for my gf/wife but my objection is dont make women a s.x toy.

no exaggeration n i might have drifted a bit away but the whole point u r missing here why to advertise if u dont want some one to buy them??? or if u dont want them for urself or is it other way around ?

Well i ve not seen any "almost Naked women", Where do u live exactly?
Half Sleeves mean 'almost naked' ?

no thats decent,

but look at ur last set of posted pics, the third from the top (if i m not wrong)is it half sleeves? Decent ? Or should i call em half naked! might be different to ur defination.

You can't stop these Woman abuse Cases, Morons will do this kinda Stuff no matter what, Ever heard of Elizabeth Fritzl Case ( Link Elisabeth Fritzl)

my sympathesis to Elisabeth-fritzl, there r always rotten eggs whcih stinks too much. u cant stop them but their % can be dropped

 

[DaRk WaVe]

look dont get me worng here, i appreciate Emo effort for all this pics digging n uploading them n some of the dresses are very gorgeous n appluad to her fot the choices of outfits she picked to demostrate n they will definately make women look attractive n i would definately have some of them for my gf/wife but my objection is dont make women a s.x toy.

no exaggeration n i might have drifted a bit away but the whole point u r missing here why to advertise if u dont want some one to buy them??? or if u dont want them for urself or is it other way around ?

yeah yeah u will like them as ur GF eh!! but u can't stand their dresses, Kia kahun ab mae waqai "moka mile to koi ni chorta"...
Do u really think "No One Buys Them"
These designers have got hell lot of money & people do go to them for clothes, Nothing is without money
& Actually I liked some of Them
But they are Too expensive for me

no thats decent,

but look at ur last set of posted pics, the third from the top (if i m not wrong)is it half sleeves? Decent ? Or should i call em half naked! might be different to ur defination.

Is that Half Naked ?????????

 

[Skies]

1. Dhaka Fashion Week

2. Dhaka Fashion Week










More:
:: Welcome to LCSS 2009 ::

:: Welcome to LCSS 2009 ::

:: Welcome to LCSS 2009 ::

 

[mhacsan]

Thanks Doc for jumping in, its really nice to read out all ur post and having some senesce prevailing. it also give me the chane to explain my self in detail.

Sorry for butting in again but I sense a good moderate vs conservative vs fundamentalist/puritanical (we need some to join up) debate.


True. And a child is moulded by his/her immediate environment which slowly expands as he grows up - his parents, his family, his school, his peers, and finally by society.

As parents we try our best and give them what is right and wrong, what is good and bad, but even beyond that, kids are just amazing observant intelligent sponges which just soak up all visual, behavioral, moral, social, attitudnal, and situational cues around them.


But it is equally not true that you are necessarily a mirror of your parents. We are all unique individuals with our own moral systems. No one is born conservative or liberal or puritanical. Its also pretty easy to proclaim oneself to be a liberal when you are young and in college and leading a carefree/wild life.

A whole different perspective and cup of tea if you will once you have kids of your own, especially girls, and they start growing up. I find myself and my wife having numerous conversations/debates about this increasingly as my elder daughter grows up (she is still just 8 ) and I would be lying if I said that there isn't the temptation to have double standards - between your college day values and your parental ones, and your way of looking at your son versus your daughter.

agreed, no argument up untill this point u r correct. as i am not yet father neither married but i can understand what u mean by double standerd as being a brother.

But the point here is that this is Fashion ..... in its way it is live art and the designers are artists. It need to constrain itself to real life needs and situations, nor to the social and moral standards of sections of society.

u might be right here but if this is fashion and live art as u put it, n it is not for social and moral standards of section of society then for whom?

i myself have been an artist, have seen this industry up close but from the distance, when i was in a college back home things didt bother me at all n i wanted to see all this stuff happening which i thought at the time was very conservative and fundamental society. once i had seen this all to certain extent cuting long story short i started working voluntarily for NGO to brign awarness to the poors in far reached areas of the country rather then leading an artifical life where things were unrealistc n unreal. lets give some thing positive to society rather then just selling hopes.

No one says you women to wear these clothes on the streets. And these are professionals (not "whores" as some enlightened gentleman referred to them as) of a serious industry. This is their job.

u r right they are professionals, n this is there job, but what effects it cast on innocent brain? u might know it as father irrespetice of difference in religion but to certain extent same culter n values, n this is where we give birth to double standerds.

Its the garment that is being showcased, not the wearer. And there is a lot of money and recognition riding on shows like these ..... for Pakistan and Pakistanis. So there is some skin on display ..... big deal. I did not find any to be in poor taste or vulgar.

not of the poor taste, no doubt abt it, dresses are pretty but some of them are indecent. thats the only objection n not worhty of showcased for whatever reason there are.

Here is where I completely lost you. Your respect for a women should not be dependent on the clothes she chooses to wear. You are stereotyping and being judgmental.

And your line of thinking that women who dress "provocatively" (open to definition) are asking for and inviting (and dare I add the unsaid but insinuated - deserving of) abuse is where I totally part ways friend.

this is what i call a men prespective, women might wear these dresses to look pretty, attractive n b praised but men will look at her from tempting point of view (no need of explanation i guess). i m not saying women dressed provocatively is an invitation by thier side but some of the men will take it on board as invitation.

i wast aware of this phenomeon until i got to UK. here to fell in love with some body is not of her face, how she behave or considerate she is etc but how much pretty her external body is, in other words how sexy she is? so love but lust love i call it but this love dones last lomg.

this is why pure love happend but rarely here.

And living in the UK, do you think woman abuse is only a Western phenomenon ..... and is wholly or partially attributable to the clothes their women wear? If so I have news for you from back home!

women abuse is certainly higher in westren countries in %.

hope this maulana answered most of ur questions

Cheers, Doc[/QUOTE]

 

[PostColonial]

^Women's abuse is much higher in muslim country. Only it gets hushed up and no woman dares to report her husband or other male member of society.

 

[mhacsan]

yeah yeah u will like them as ur GF eh!! but u can't stand their dresses, Kia kahun ab mae waqai "moka mile to koi ni chorta"...
Do u really think "No One Buys Them"
These designers have got hell lot of money & people do go to them for clothes, Nothing is without money

Is that Half Naked ?????????

u really think i m a maulana dont u?

i think i did not make myself clear enough. lets say 70% of these outfits are unobjectionable n ur choice is of astute nature, n i would like to buy them for any body in the family n will not stop them from wearing. but dresses are there to cover ur body otherwise u need certain number of leafs and stone age time period.

Do u really think "No One Buys Them"
These designers have got hell lot of money & people do go to them for clothes, Nothing is without money

There are definately among us who will provide bed and breakfast to their dogs, but will let poor die of hunger.

& Actually I liked some of Them
But they are Too expensive for me

why dont u ask ur father to buy u one??? lets see how much maulana is hidden inside him

 

[vsdoc]

I understood what you were saying the first time around buddy. And I definitely was not referring to you as the maulana.

By the way, you have hyphenated wife/gf in two of your posts. All I can say is that you are most definitely not married .... yet!

You seem to be making the transition from college life to a more philosophical one, a man of the world if you wish, wanting to be someone of substance and contributing to society, etc. etc. living in a foreign land, an alien culture.

My only word of advice is that dont take yourself so seriously.

Both extremes are bad. Being a tight-minded fundamentalist prude at one end and being a decadent bohemian superficial social wallflower on the other. Find the niche somewhere in between that you are comfortable with ..... and most importantly ...... let others do the same without imposing your views and values and beliefs on them.

Also, while I agree that there are inherent differences between our Asian culture and that of the West, I don't think its entirely correct to paint them with a single broad brush stroke in terms of the superficiality and materialism of their human relationships. It takes all kinds my friend ..... on both sides.

Cheers, Doc

 

[mhacsan]

^Women's abuse is much higher in muslim country. Only it gets hushed up and no woman dares to report her husband or other male member of society.

if it doest get reported how do u know abt it my friend?

n let me mak emyself clear here by women abuse i only mean showcasing her a a s.x toy. pronography n stuff is on the rise by 20% a year in westren socities n most of them contain lesbiand promotions.

dont ask for link its all over the internet

 

[vsdoc]

Here again I disagree with you buddy.

What is wrong with pornography? It services a need and is an industry like any other. With professionals like anywhere else. Women doing it by choice, and getting paid for it. Not getting raped ..... more often by those who they trust than by strangers.

Would you rather have men whacking off on smut CDs and magazines in the privacy of their rooms, or would you have sex starved nuts cruise our streets looking to satisfy their basic urges?

I vote for legalisation of Pornography and Prostitution ..... like many European countries.

You'll still get the nuts here and there ..... but they would be the beyong redemption ones who simply need to be put away forever. The rest/borderline ones would have professionals take care of them and keep them satisfied ..... and off the streets, and public transport, and pubs, and mall parking lots, and parks, and schools, and bedrooms, and playgrounds, and orphanages .....

Cheers, Doc

 

[mhacsan]

Here again I disagree with you buddy.

What is wrong with pornography? It services a need and is an industry like any other. With professionals like anywhere else. Women doing it by choice, and getting paid for it. Not getting raped ..... more often by those who they trust than by strangers.

Would you rather have men whacking off on smut CDs and magazines in the privacy of their rooms, or would you have sex starved nuts cruise our streets looking to satisfy their basic urges?

I vote for legalisation of Pornography and Prostitution ..... like many European countries.

You'll still get the nuts here and there ..... but they would be the beyong redemption ones who simply need to be put away forever. The rest/borderline ones would have professionals take care of them and keep them satisfied ..... and off the streets, and public transport, and schools, and pubs .....

Cheers, Doc

thank u Doc for ur advice, i will definately look into it when i will sit alone n do soul searching.

whereas ur second post is concerend i would also like to disagree with u respectfully.

The more u eat the more hunger u will develop this is how human body works, if u stopped eating or start eating less u will start feeling less hunger and ur appetite will subside with the time.

But this process will be very difficult to start with becz to control hunger is just like a wild fire requiring on decision making whether how much water u need to extenguish or instead highly influmable material to be used depending upon ur strategic choice of future state. u r smart enough to understand hidden words doc.

appetites are controlled by brain, to kill it just need divertion of attention n rest ill be on course. in the end its all abt u having controll on urself.

 

[DaRk WaVe]

u really think i m a maulana dont u?

i think i did not make myself clear enough. lets say 70% of these outfits are unobjectionable n ur choice is of astute nature, n i would like to buy them for any body in the family n will not stop them from wearing. but dresses are there to cover ur body otherwise u need certain number of leafs and stone age time period.

I don't know what you are nor do i want to know
Well how can u compare this Stuff with leaves
man they are just showing their designs & promoting them, whats wrong with it, let the people decide what they want to wear

There are definately among us who will provide bed and breakfast to their dogs, but will let poor die of hunger.

So now hunger came in eh???

why dont u ask ur father to buy u one??? lets see how much maulana is hidden inside him

He has left this world God Bless 'em....

 

[DaRk WaVe]

n let me mak emyself clear here by women abuse i only mean showcasing her a a s.x toy. pronography n stuff is on the rise by 20% a year in westren socities n most of them contain lesbian promotions.

dont ask for link its all over the internet

This Clearly shows you are into this Lesbo pornography Stuff & here you are acting like a innocent Kid & objecting Dresses
Homo sexuality is a dark side which exists in every society, its just that some societies just Close their eyes, Remember two ladies in love in Lahore

& plzzz, Lets stop it, Let them decide what they want to wear...