Pakistani-born US Army officer buried with honours

[Awesome]

Wouldn't one would ask if the battle between the two countries is justifiable. If it is, then one should decided which country is justified. Then the decision becomes more clearer to oneself to defend.

P.s. God bless the soldier.

Yeah but then you're supposed to follow orders.

The thing is if a Gora American thought for himself and opted neutrality he wouldn't be termed as a traitor. But if a Pak American did so, that would go along to tarnish the image of all Pak Americans in the service and they'd be called unreliable.

 

[Keysersoze]

So you're justifying killing innocent men, women, and children?

When did human life become so valueless?

What is the difference between those U.S troops who murdered innocent children and taliban who murder innocent children? Both are killers.

More innocent Pakistanis have lost their lives in just this one year than the number of American lives lost on 9/11. Is a Pakistani life that useless, that valueless?

Great effort trying to justify Bush's evil war OF terror.

Errr no you seem to read the post and understood none of it. I was not justifying anything.
Merely explaining as someone who has experience of The real word situations people face in war. There is a HUUGE difference between someone who causes deaths by accident. And someone who uses it to their own gains. There are reprehensible people in most armies who do commit attrocites and need to be brought to book for their crimes. But don't confuse them with people who make errors under some of the most stressful situations that can be imagined (I.E. someone trying to kill you)
HOWEVER i note that people like you rail against the Americans very easily but rarely say ANYTHING against Al-Qeada or the Taliban.

Armchair warriors have no concept of the real world.

I look forward to your condemnation of the atrocites caused by the TaLiban and AQ.......not holding my breath though.

Oh and I am against the whole Neo-con agenda in America and everything it stands for. However I have a healthy dislike for hypocrisy such as yours as well.

 

[Keysersoze]

I have expressed my views about his sacrifice, but nonetheless I feel compelled to ask - is it reasonable to expect peoples from the times of WWII and from the nations affected by the Nazi onslaught to feel kindly towards those who served their German nation with courage and sacrificed in their nation's cause?

And I ask not from a rational, philosophical POV, but from the perspective of the common man.

AM i would suggest you read a book called the "forgotten soldier" by Guy Sajer. It's about a half French and half German man who serves during WW2 in the German army. It gives a good insight into situations like this.

 

[Omar1984]

Errr no you seem to read the post and understood none of it. I was not justifying anything.
Merely explaining as someone who has experience of The real word situations people face in war. There is a HUUGE difference between someone who causes deaths by accident. And someone who uses it to their own gains. There are reprehensible people in most armies who do commit attrocites and need to be brought to book for their crimes. But don't confuse them with people who make errors under some of the most stressful situations that can be imagined (I.E. someone trying to kill you)
HOWEVER i note that people like you rail against the Americans very easily but rarely say ANYTHING against Al-Qeada or the Taliban.

Armchair warriors have no concept of the real world.

I look forward to your condemnation of the atrocites caused by the TaLiban and AQ.......not holding my breath though.

Oh and I am against the whole Neo-con agenda in America and everything it stands for. However I have a healthy dislike for hypocrisy such as yours as well.

Most Americans themselves HATE this war and HATE America's foreign policy. So is Michael Moore also anti-American?

By the way, my grandfather also thought it was a bad idea educating girls and he was from a region far away from FATA and NWFP. Was he a taliban too? hahah I dont think taliban existed during his time. Taliban was just created during the soviet war. So whatever you do, how many children and women you kill, you will never change people's mentality in that region. They've been thinking like that for ages what makes you think we can change them now?

 

[Awesome]

Omar, you can't call someone a bad person, even if you think they are fighting on the wrong side.

Do you think Indian soldiers are bad people?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

AM i would suggest you read a book called the "forgotten soldier" by Guy Sajer. It's about a half French and half German man who serves during WW2 in the German army. It gives a good insight into situations like this.

Thank you for the recommendation Keys, I'll definitely check it out.

But to make my own stance clear, I would regard a German soldier who died fighting for Germany on the beaches of Normandy to be just as honorable as an Allied soldier who died fighting the Germans on that same beach.

Nations might be on the 'right' or 'wrong' side of a conflict, but good soldiers just do what they are trained to do, no?

But my question is more general and with respect to the layman, for whom its just about the 'enemy' who has 'wronged' them, and not about the finer points of duty, loyalty, training and sacrifice for nation.

 

[Keysersoze]

Most Americans themselves HATE this war and HATE America's foreign policy. So is Michael Moore also anti-American?

By the way, my grandfather also thought it was a bad idea educating girls and he was from a region far away from FATA and NWFP. Was he a taliban too? hahah I dont think taliban existed during his time. Taliban was just created during the soviet war. So whatever you do, how many children and women you kill, you will never change people's mentality in that region. They've been thinking like that for ages what makes you think we can change them now?

Ok I keep talking and yet your level of understanding is still zero. you are jumping around like a freshly landed fish.

1)First my responses have been in your hypocritical reaction to a Pakistani person fighting and dying for the country that educated him gave him employment and a better standard of living than he would have received had he stayed in PAkistan. You live in the same country and yet have the nerve to suggest that someone else remove any mention of the word Pakistani from their heritage simply because they want to defend against stupidity . Are you a better "Pakistani" because you are a hypocrite by your actions?

2)You can disagree with the American Government policy as much as you like. you can also if you wish protest freely and if you are able vote to change the government. However you are attacking not the govt but a soldier. You seem to think serving in a army equals to agreeing with the govt. You are in fact wrong.

3)HAve you ever served in a front line unit? I somehow doubt it. Otherwise you would not be talking rubbish about the killing of civilians. None of my unit went out to kill civilians and would do our utmost to prevent it. So stop talking rubbish about things you kNow NOTHING about. Its like talking to a three year old...I want to see your moral outrage the next time the The Taliban set of a suicide bomb in a large crowd...but i am sure your hypocrisy knows no limits....

4)Not wanting to educate girls does not make a Taliban. Just a moron. However it is one of the things the Taliban are famous for....blowing up girls schools.

5)In order to change mentalities it requires education.....education requires schools....taliban idiots blow up schools.........nato troops kill taliban......schools and infrastructure get built.........you see where i am going with this?


I await your next totally pointless post.........

 

[Keysersoze]

Thank you for the recommendation Keys, I'll definitely check it out.

But to make my own stance clear, I would regard a German soldier who died fighting for Germany on the beaches of Normandy to be just as honorable as an Allied soldier who died fighting the Germans on that same beach.

Nations might be on the 'right' or 'wrong' side of a conflict, but good soldiers just do what they are trained to do, no?

But my question is more general and with respect to the layman, for whom its just about the 'enemy' who has 'wronged' them, and not about the finer points of duty, loyalty, training and sacrifice for nation.

I for one am loyal to the guys in my unit......They are on the whole good people. A lot of them actually had a rapport with a lot of the civilians they dealt with. They did not as certain people have suggest "go out to kill women and children" they took great care to avoid it.
It makes me angry when armchair warriors suggest dumb things like that.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

I for one am loyal to the guys in my unit......They are on the whole good people. A lot of them actually had a rapport with a lot of the civilians they dealt with. They did not as certain people have suggest "go out to kill women and children" they took great care to avoid it.
It makes me angry when armchair warriors suggest dumb things like that.

Certainly Keys, and knowing what I do about US institutions and the people here, I strongly doubt any would just go out and bomb a village for the heck of it. But that is not how it is seen by many people. Stories like Abu Ghraib, flawed intel on Iraq, the 911 conspiracy, bombings wiping out an entire school in Afghanistan, and even Pakistan - those stories are what are shaping the narrative, and views about the West in the Muslim street.

I just want to point out that there is a huge gulf in perception - due to illiteracy, propaganda, an inherent distrust of the West, whatever. Don't for a moment think that this sentiment does not anger me, we have seen it expressed often enough against Pakistani soldiers who have died fighting terrorism, and protecting innocent Pakistanis, only to be denigrated as being US lackey's.

It is infuriating, and must be more so for you as a member of the armed forces - I just wanted to put that perspective on the table.