Pakistani Ballistic Missiles: Indigenous Content & Development

[The Deterrent]

Although you didn't ask me,but here is my answer...

A little question arises in my mind. During the testing of missiles. Let's just say it is designed for maximum 600 KM, how do they know that particular missile will travel that far? Based on how much fuel is poured in the missile?

Calculations,mostly computer based.Inputs used are the force of the missiles motor (which is measured in ground testing i.e. the missile motor is strapped down to the ground against a huge concrete wall,and it is fired),flight time,altitudes etc.Basically very complex calculations.

And before the firing of fire, Did they put co-ordinates in it to hit the particular place? And Is there any mid course update module in our Ballistic missiles? If there is any, then how this module works? Is it that this module attached with sat link.?

Yes,the satellite guidance that Pakistan uses is one of the two:

1. Commercially available GPS (which is accurate at 30-50 m)
2. Or the Chinese limited satellite guidance. (not sure exactly how do they use it).

The satellite guidance corrects the errors which develop in the Inertial Navigation System,hence achieving good CEP.

Now,for your question...

Yes the co-ordinates are fed into the missile prior to launch.By Mid-course update,if you mean to further correct any errors,I have already explained how.For systems like Ghauris,Shaheens,The trajectory is corrected after ReV separation,which can give a CEP of 100+ m.This is further enhanced by the Terminal Correction System.

By Mid-course updates,if you mean assigning a new target,located in the proximity of the previous one,then this is not possible for current Pakistani Ballistic Missiles.

Third thing. The Missile accurately hit the Flag. Does it means that the co-ordinates put in to Missile was accurately and precisely followed?

The missile is never that accurate to hit the flag.It usually falls 15-200 m away,depending on the range and speed of the ballistic missile.Still,that means the missile was very accurate,because the slightest of divergence can cause it to fall thousands of meters away.

And if Missile hit the the target 200 Meters back or forward, then what does it mean, the atmospheric conditions made guidance system blurry that's why it didn't hit the target accurately?

The atmospheric (external) conditions are mostly responsible for the deviation of the missile from its path (However,they don't matter much if the speed of the missile is very high,i.e. it is of ICBM class).Not only that,an extra uncorrected jerk made during separation,thrust fluctuation in the missile motor,slightest of flaw in the aerodynamic design can cause it to fall hundreds of meters away.

One more thing, upgrading the engine of Missile means that it's speed and thrust increases both. so my question is, Does upgraded thrust means, The missile can carry more payload?

By upgrading a missile motor,you can do one of the two things.....either give it more range with same payload...or increase the payload with same range.
Or,if the upgrade is massive,then you can increase both range and payload.It depends on the final thrust of the upgraded rocket motor.

---------- Post added at 02:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:16 PM ----------

It does not matter how much Pakistani they are as long as they deliver the payload successfully.

Agreed,it does not matters...

 

[Windjammer]

Guys, you often see footage of Pakistani Missile launches but never the end result, like the projectile striking the designated target.
I however had the privilege to witness such material during a visit to the ISPR's media section.
The footage was of a Shaheen-1 test, the designated target area was marked by two yellow flags, the missile after allegedly travelling some 600 Kms, hit the ground between the flags. A lot of earth kicked up but apparently there were no explosives carried in the test.

 

[The Deterrent]

Guys, you often see footage of Pakistani Missile launches but never the end result, like the projectile striking the designated target.
I however had the privilege to witness such material during a visit to the ISPR's media section.
The footage was of a Shaheen-1 test, the designated target area was marked by two yellow flags, the missile after allegedly travelling some 600 Kms, hit the ground between the flags. A lot of earth kicked up but apparently there were no explosives carried in the test.

BTW no explosives are carried unless it is a cold test.And a cold test is normally an air-burst.

 

[SQ8]

No,Ghauri-2 uses a single rocket motor...It is only 2 m longer than Ghauri-1.There is no proof available that Ghauri-2 has two stages.The ReV cannot be regarded as a second stage.

Its not the ReV I refer to..
They added a second booster tank to the one already in place.. The whole idea was to have the thing separate later on.. but that never materialized. Even toyed with the idea of a TV nozzle.
They kept the second "stage" tanks and just piped it to the first booster..nice modular approach.. but that's it.
This info infact.. has been rolling around these forums way before I came on def.pk.
Also, many elements of both Ghauri and Shaheen series may not have similar components.. older batches may have a steel tank.. the newer ones aluminium..
The newer Shaheen's have very.. VERY accurate guidance systems compared to say something tat rolled off the line in 2002.

In any case, KRL has taken the backseat now...
Expect no more Ghauri's to come out.

---------- Post added at 04:39 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:37 AM ----------

BTW no explosives are carried unless it is a cold test.And a cold test is normally an air-burst.

Not in this case..
Ive seen that very same video.. and the associated comment of "sir jee jhanda urr gaya hai".

 

[The Deterrent]

Its not the ReV I refer to..
They added a second booster tank to the one already in place.. The whole idea was to have the thing separate later on.. but that never materialized. Even toyed with the idea of a TV nozzle.
They kept the second "stage" tanks and just piped it to the first booster..nice modular approach.. but that's it.
This info infact.. has been rolling around these forums way before I came on def.pk.
Also, many elements of both Ghauri and Shaheen series may not have similar components.. older batches may have a steel tank.. the newer ones aluminium..
The newer Shaheen's have very.. VERY accurate guidance systems compared to say something tat rolled off the line in 2002.

In any case, KRL has taken the backseat now...
Expect no more Ghauri's to come out.

---------- Post added at 04:39 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:37 AM ----------



Not in this case..
Ive seen that very same video.. and the associated comment of "sir jee jhanda urr gaya hai".

So you are saying that only another tank of propellent was added,not a separable second stage,right?

and of course there is no use of investing anymore in Ghauris...

 

[The Deterrent]

Not in this case..
Ive seen that very same video.. and the associated comment of "sir jee jhanda urr gaya hai".

Then maybe high explosives were used...fuzed by a proximity fuze.

 

[SQ8]

So you are saying that only another tank of propellent was added,not a separable second stage,right?

and of course there is no use of investing anymore in Ghauris...

They wanted to.. that second tank.. or the Lox with catalyst was a separate system.. to be part of a second stage.
This was 2000, the Shaheen was in its infancy.. and KRL wanted to take the lead comprehensibly.
However, they could not get the whole separation system and electronics right.. and so simply took whatever progress they had made.. and "bolted" it on the existing Ghauri.
If you get to see a high resolution photo of a ghauri 2, you can see the place where they extended the old ghauri.
This should have added more weight , however due to the new tanks and systems made of aluminium alloys rather than high grade steel, it was lighter.. and allowed them to keep the existing warhead. Albeit with lesser range than initially planned.

 

[Windjammer]

Sorry ! misunderstood the quote. !!

 

[SQ8]

Then maybe high explosives were used...fuzed by a proximity fuze.

No need, high velocity object.. desert ground.. the impact generated enough force to throw these flags off..
they were nothing more than bamboo sticks with cloth on them.. you dont need explosives to throw them off.

 

[The Deterrent]

No need, high velocity object.. desert ground.. the impact generated enough force to throw these flags off..
they were nothing more than bamboo sticks with cloth on them.. you dont need explosives to throw them off.

That is what I was saying before...no need of explosives in usual tests...

 

[Maler]

It is a well established fact that Pakistani Missiles are just copies nothing more nothing less.

Question is not about that Pakistani missiles are copies or manufactured by technology transfer of similar Chinese or South Korean missiles. Actually, the question is, "is it legal to copy or transfer of missile technology keeping in mind the frame work of International laws about missile technology"? and if coping/transfer of missile technology is so simple, readily available and legal, as tried to generalized by most PDF members, then every Tom, Dick, Harry country have had missile technologies today.

 

[Safriz]

It is a well established fact that Pakistani Missiles are just copies nothing more nothing less.

Question is not about that Pakistani missiles are copies or manufactured by technology transfer of similar Chinese or South Korean missiles. Actually, the question is, "is it legal to copy or transfer of missile technology keeping in mind the frame work of International laws about missile technology"? and if coping/transfer of missile technology is so simple, readily available and legal, as tried to generalized by most PDF members, then every Tom, Dick, Harry country have had missile technologies today.

since no country has come up with a law suit against pakistan...i guess the missiles are legal.

 

[somebozo]

Local or reverse engineered, the fact that we are not trolling the world and chest humping about our indigenous capabilities and at time of need what is all needed is for these missiles to work as expected and they will pack enough punch for the enemy.

 

[Developereo]

It does not matter how much Pakistani they are as long as they deliver the payload successfully.

The question of indigenous design can be framed thus: in time of need, can Pakistan roll them off the assembly line, or do we need to wait for the import shipments to arrive?

 

[DrSomnath999]

AhaseebA is an Indian Troll hiding behind a Pakistani Flag !

Original Post By Hafizzz

u should be ashamed of saying this .Asheeba is a true patriot & true pakistani ,just come to indian defe*** forum u would see it .
Is that necessary to prove everyone that ur a pakistani simply by abusing india & indians ? just tell me .I had many bitter fight with this guy over many issue just check india* def*** forum .
Well that's not all even if i am indian i posted top 10 future weapons of pakistan & how would pakistan counter india's abm .Then some indian member started bashing me that i am pakistani under indian flag .Shame on them who think that way .IF a person thinks in a neutral way will it make him a traitor