Pakistani and Malaysian economies compared, Why is Malaysia doing better, lol?

[Chandragupt Maurya]

Malaysia focuses on economy, basically Malaysia has reason to wage war against Indonesia in Natuna areas. They prefer letting go that and focus on the economy. Pakistan made the opposite decision with the disputed area with India

I think this decision that divide Pakistan and Malaysia fate. Malaysia defense budget is only at 3 billion USD in 2023. Both Malaysia and Pakistan have much bigger neighbour, Indonesia for Malaysia and India for Pakistan. Both made different path as Pakistan keep trying to get the disputed land with bigger India, while Malaysia let it go and focus on the economy with very small defense budget

The focus on military embolden Pakistan military while for Malaysia the focus on the economy embolden their civilian rule

View attachment 967375

Malaysian media

The Claim of Sovereignty over Natuna Islands

As stated earlier, Indonesia formally included Natuna Islands as part of its territory in 1956, a year before Malaysia’s independence and six years before the Indonesian Confrontation with Malaysia erupted.

Malaysia at that time was still known as the Federation of Malaya and has not attained full independence to make its claim on the Natuna Islands. Malaya obtained independence in 1957 and became Malaysia in 1963.

The smooth journey towards the formation of Malaysia was then compromised when the then President of Indonesia, Sukarno, declared confrontation against Malaysia in 1962.
The Confrontation severed the Malaysian-Indonesian ties and may have swayed the focus of the leaders of Malaysia at that time towards ending the conflict with Indonesia rather than pressing claims over the Natuna Islands.

On the other hand, Indonesia needed the Natuna Islands to justify to the world that Indonesia is in fact an archipelagic State as prescribed by the international law of the sea.
Indeed, based on historical facts enunciated earlier, Malaysia has the right to claim sovereignty over the Natuna Islands.

Nevertheless, the claim has never been made and until now, Malaysia recognises Natuna Islands as part of Indonesia. However, can Malaysia make prospective claims over the Natuna Islands?

International law dictates that a State may acquire territory by way of prescription. This method of territorial acquisition refers to ‘actual exercise’ of sovereignty by one country on a particular territory without any clear objections from other countries.

Based on this fact, Malaysia’s claim, if any, over the Natuna Islands may be rebutted on the fact that it has remained silent over Indonesia’s administration on those islands that has taken place for almost 60 years.

https://www.astroawani.com/berita-dunia/natuna-islands-malaysian-geography-indonesian-sovereignty-94430

The key difference between Malaysia and Pakistan is that Pakistan has a historical background of being colonized by various invaders such as Afghans, Turks, and Arabs. These conquerors compelled Pakistan to adopt Islam. When an ideology is forced upon a nation, it can manifest in peculiar ways, such as Pakistanis identifying themselves as Arabs. Looking at the names of Malaysians, like Mahathir, which is a Sanskrit name, contrasts with the Arabic names common among the Pakistani president and army generals. It's rather odd and awkward that the term "Pakistan" itself is an acronym derived from the names of various places like Hindustan, Afghanistan, Kazakstan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, etc. These names originate from tribal references, and the meaning of Pakistan as "land of the pure" can evoke a sense of irony or humor.

 

[nahtanbob]

Because Pakistan is a failed state and Malaysia isn't.

that is not the cause. that is more a symptom (even if it is true)

I think Pakistan really needs economic or structural reform to put it on a high economic growth projectory as did in Bangladesh, India, Vietnam and also China. That was missing in the past decades. Current Pakistani economic and developmental model is probably formed and more fitting in the cold war era.

For some Pakistanis the cold war never ended

 

[Menace2Society]

I've been to Malaysia twice, beautiful country.

Kuala Lumpur is well developed. The rest of the country not so much but its exotic and not dirty so its okay.

I was in a Korean bar in Penang having a drink and I looked outside and folk were going to Friday prayers. Everyone minding their own business, just amazing.

Do you know the biggest red flag in Pakistan? It doesn't have a single half mile/1 mile developed area. Not a single city centre district that is 1st world standard. It is universally 3rd world. I cannot fathom how such a large country with a giant population can't even do this. I just have to go on google maps and pick random spots and every single one is a destitute car crash of an area.

Also its very rare we see threads like this, we should compare more and know exactly where Pakistan stands.

 

[Indos]

It takes two to tango. Is India also willing to compromise or at least keep it cool down regarding the Kashmir dispute ? The experiences of India and China border disputes tell others that India is totally unreasonable with its demands, Indians are too greedy to do any compromise, they want to take 100% of the disputed land from China despite they are being the weaker ones. That's why you also see constant heightened tensions and even confrontations at times on the Sino-India borders.

India see themselves equal with China, this is what I see happening. What India choose is also effecting their economic development, I mean spending around 60-70 billion USD for defense yearly causing economic pressure as well. If we check the defense spending to GDP ratio, India percentage is pretty high while China is pretty moderate.

Every decision on this matter has effect on the economy. USA for example as keep continuing to act like superpower cause them great burden on their economy in term of debt. Despite so, due to their good defense industry, their spending on military has less negative impact compared to developing countries who still rely on import

 

[Enigma SIG]

Pakistan has majority lora choos caliber people who only suck nawazs dick, napak army included.

 

[etylo]

India see themselves equal with China, this is what I see happening. What India choose is also effecting their economic development, I mean spending around 60-70 billion USD for defense yearly causing economic pressure as well. If we check the defense spending to GDP ratio, India percentage is pretty high while China is pretty moderate.

Every decision on this matter has effect on the economy. USA for example as keep continuing to act like superpower cause them great effect on their economy in term of debt.

India still has long way to go to catch up to China. Their GDP is only 1/5.5 of China, most of their weapons are imported, they don't have a sound defense industry, not to mention their societal problems like caste and widespread slums that impede them from progress. Indians are famous for being delusional for good reasons.

 

[Indos]

India still has long way to go to catch up to China. Their GDP is only 1/5.5 of China, most of their weapons are imported, they don't have a sound defense industry, not to mention their societal problems like caste and widespread slums that impede them from progress. Indians are famous for being delusional for good reasons.

Yup, their ambition is to get long term 8 percent economic growth, we will see what will be their long term growth trend if 2024-2025 economic growth data come out as the low based effect of their negative 7 % covid year will already be gone in that period. IMF has predicted their long term growth will be like 6%.

If Pakistan become stable country, Pakistan can get more FDI as Pakistan is closer to Europe than India. Western and North East Asia manufacturer will likely make factory in South Asia if they want to target European market. Pakistan main problem that I see are security and electricity. I mean when rich Pakistani living abroad come to Pakistan, they tend to hire private security guard to protect their family, this is shown in the news that I see. That is pretty serious thing.

Yup the lacking on India is their divided society between Hindu and Muslim. This is also seen as the lacking of India by The Economist (US media) when they made special report about the comparison between Indonesia and India economic potency.

 

[ThunderCat]

Malaysia has a population of 33 million but their economy is $430 billion

Pakistan has a population of 250 million people but our economy is $400 billion or ($340.6 billion
according to wikipedia, lol)

So where are we wrong, and what are they doing right, lol?

Another of these comedic posts. Malaysia got lots of resources and a small sustainable population. They're a tropical rain-forest climate.

They cannot have a large population even if they wanted to. And when since is economy equivalent to prosperity?

Have you not seen Bharat and it's enormous economy and seen what a crap it is as a country?

Big economies are usually destructive. New Zealand, Denmark, Qatar have smaller economies and are a hundred time more prosperous.

 

[Kambojaric]

Malaysia focuses on economy, basically Malaysia has reason to wage war against Indonesia in Natuna areas. They prefer letting go that and focus on the economy. Pakistan made the opposite decision with the disputed area with India

I think this decision that divide Pakistan and Malaysia fate. Malaysia defense budget is only at 3 billion USD in 2023. Both Malaysia and Pakistan have much bigger neighbour, Indonesia for Malaysia and India for Pakistan. Both made different path as Pakistan keep trying to get the disputed land with bigger India, while Malaysia let it go and focus on the economy with very small defense budget

The focus on military embolden Pakistan military while for Malaysia the focus on the economy embolden their civilian rule

View attachment 967375

Malaysian media

The Claim of Sovereignty over Natuna Islands

As stated earlier, Indonesia formally included Natuna Islands as part of its territory in 1956, a year before Malaysia’s independence and six years before the Indonesian Confrontation with Malaysia erupted.

Malaysia at that time was still known as the Federation of Malaya and has not attained full independence to make its claim on the Natuna Islands. Malaya obtained independence in 1957 and became Malaysia in 1963.

The smooth journey towards the formation of Malaysia was then compromised when the then President of Indonesia, Sukarno, declared confrontation against Malaysia in 1962.
The Confrontation severed the Malaysian-Indonesian ties and may have swayed the focus of the leaders of Malaysia at that time towards ending the conflict with Indonesia rather than pressing claims over the Natuna Islands.

On the other hand, Indonesia needed the Natuna Islands to justify to the world that Indonesia is in fact an archipelagic State as prescribed by the international law of the sea.
Indeed, based on historical facts enunciated earlier, Malaysia has the right to claim sovereignty over the Natuna Islands.

Nevertheless, the claim has never been made and until now, Malaysia recognises Natuna Islands as part of Indonesia. However, can Malaysia make prospective claims over the Natuna Islands?

International law dictates that a State may acquire territory by way of prescription. This method of territorial acquisition refers to ‘actual exercise’ of sovereignty by one country on a particular territory without any clear objections from other countries.

Based on this fact, Malaysia’s claim, if any, over the Natuna Islands may be rebutted on the fact that it has remained silent over Indonesia’s administration on those islands that has taken place for almost 60 years.

https://www.astroawani.com/berita-dunia/natuna-islands-malaysian-geography-indonesian-sovereignty-94430

I see your point but the Kashmir/Natuna comparison does not really work since Kashmir is the source of all of Pakistans major rivers. As an agricultural economy, whoever controls Kashmir controls Pakistan. Natuna simply does not carry the same weight for Malaysia.

Having said that I agree that the Kashmir issue has severly burdened the Pakistani economy indirectly. It's preeminence in the public psyche meant that the people were willing to tolerate abuses of power by the military establishment. A strong military it was claimed would ensure the long term safety of Pakistan. The uneven distribution of wealth and the generals being given a free hand to do whatever they willed without any accountability has led Pakistan to its current fate.

 

[ThunderCat]

I think Pakistan really needs economic or structural reform to put it on a high economic growth projectory as did in Bangladesh, India, Vietnam and also China. That was missing in the past decades. Current Pakistani economic and developmental model is probably formed and more fitting in the cold war era.

China cannot be compared to the sh!t that are India and Bangladesh. Even if India surpasses China in GDP size, China alone is much more sustainable, cleaner, better infrastructure, education, science/technology.

Most Bharatis live in total sh!t. Bangladeshis probably even worse, though not much. Bangladesh has also surpassed Denmark's GDP.

There's no comparing Denmark to Bangladesh. No comparing China to these two crap holes.

Pakistan is not much better, but still somewhat better.

 

[etylo]

Yup, their ambition is to get long term 8 percent economic growth, we will see what will be their long term growth trend if 2024-2025 economic growth data come out as the low based effect of their negative 7 % covid year will already be gone in that period. IMF has predicted their long term growth will be like 6%.

If Pakistan become stable country, Pakistan can get more FDI as Pakistan is closer to Europe than India. Western and North East Asia manufacturer will likely make factory in South Asia if they want to target European market. Pakistan main problem that I see are security and electricity. I mean when rich Pakistani living abroad come to Pakistan, they tend to hire private security guard to protect their family, this is shown in the news that I see. That is pretty serious thing.

Yup the lacking on India is their divided society between Hindu and Muslim. This is also seen as the lacking of India by The Economist (US media) when they made special report about the comparison between Indonesia and India economic potency.

I doubt they can maintain a growth rate of more than 8% in the coming years as they predicted giving that only 24% of their females work and also the impact of their rigid caste system. Current high growth rate of India might be due to the rebound effect of Covid 19 depression in the last few years. I wouldn't be surprised that if Indonesia does have better economic and developmental prospect than India in the coming years.

 

[Indos]

I see your point but the Kashmir/Natuna comparison does not really work since Kashmir is the source of all of Pakistans major rivers. As an agricultural economy, whoever controls Kashmir controls Pakistan. Natuna simply does not carry the same weight for Malaysia.

Having said that I agree that the Kashmir issue has severly burdened the Pakistani economy indirectly. It's preeminence in the public psyche meant that the people were willing to tolerate abuses of power by the military establishment. A strong military it was claimed would ensure the long term safety of Pakistan. The uneven distribution of wealth and the generals being given a free hand to do whatever they willed without any accountability has led Pakistan to its current fate.

Not too late to Pakistan to reform. I guess Pakistani has realized that they should focus on the economy, this what I see the mind set shift that has already happened. The next important thing to realize is that civilian powers should not attack each other in bluntly way and should keep the harmony between them. This will make the democracy become peaceful. Indonesians are also now realizing it. There are much less hate speech on the internet between political supporters while in elites these understanding have already been maintained for quite long. I mean before we can transform the society mind set, the elites should become the pioneer.

 

[etylo]

China cannot be compared to the sh!t that are India and Bangladesh. Even if India surpasses China in GDP size, China alone is much more sustainable, cleaner, better infrastructure, education, science/technology.

Most Bharatis live in total sh!t. Bangladeshis probably even worse, though not much. Bangladesh has also surpassed Denmark's GDP.

There's no comparing Denmark to Bangladesh. No comparing China to these two crap holes.

Pakistan is not much better, but still somewhat better.

OK, but those two countries did have economic reforms to put them on relatively high economic growth projectory now. I am not suggesting that Pakistan should adopt what were done in those countries to become like them.

 

[Faceless]

If we check the defense spending to GDP ratio, India percentage is pretty high while China is pretty moderate

Wrong Conclusion, if you take a look at India's Defense budget breakdown nearly half of it goes towards pension and Salaries which can not be reduced (can cause riots in the country, Case in point the Agniveer program) so we have no choice but to keep our budgets high, because Indian Armed Forces are one of the biggest employment generator of the Country.
It does not necessarily mean India spends an unhealthy amount of money on defence budget, Quite the opposite I'd argue.
"What India choose is also effecting their economic development" Yes it is affecting our economic development but in a good yet unsustainable way

If we remove the manpower cost from both the countries Defence budget I am certain china spends a bigger portion of It's GDP on defence.

 

[Indos]

Wrong Conclusion, if you take a look at India's Defense budget breakdown nearly half of it goes towards pension and Salaries which can not be reduced (can cause riots in the country, Case in point the Agniveer program) so we have no choice but to keep our budgets high, because Indian Armed Forces are one of the biggest employment generator of the Country.

If we remove the manpower cost from both the countries Defence budget I am certain china spends a bigger portion of It's GDP on defence.

Yep, you have 1 million soldiers, but your spending for defense equipment is also high