Pakistan would buy Chinese HD-1 supersonic missile

[Dazzler]

You mean MBRLs? That's not an answer to defeating SAMs. You bring them close enough to hit air bases, those MBRLs will already be under attack by our infantry.

The most dangerous rockets can also be intercepted by SAMs and AAA anyway.

SAMS are far from perfect which is a universal fact. The margin of error is always there even for conventional supersonic and subsonic threats. The reason why subsonic cruise missiles enjoy a comfort zone is due to this vulnerability.

But out of nowhere, the S400 becomes the holy grail of SAMs just because India signed the contract. Man, get serious. No one would guarantee a perfect kill ratio against a swarm of incoming threats, or hypersonic ones. You are too naive to admit that so live in your delusional fantasy world. A swarm of missiles or even a hypersonic threat will make engagement near impossible.

 

[Basel]

You mean MBRLs? That's not an answer to defeating SAMs. You bring them close enough to hit air bases, those MBRLs will already be under attack by our infantry.

The most dangerous rockets can also be intercepted by SAMs and AAA anyway.

Nope, your artillery and rocket systems currently don't have enough range to engage our new rocket systems with PGM.

Ever heard of shoot and scoot?

 

[bananarepublic]

Nope, your artillery and rocket systems currently don't have enough range to engage our new rocket systems with PGM.

Ever heard of shoot and scoot?

is there a plausibility of a rocket artillery using the same munitions as the CBU105
I have always wondered why does not Pakistan develop such a system

 

[ALi Rizwan]

You mean MBRLs? That's not an answer to defeating SAMs. You bring them close enough to hit air bases, those MBRLs will already be under attack by our infantry.

The most dangerous rockets can also be intercepted by SAMs and AAA anyway.

You do know the difference b/w CAN & WILL.

 

[randomradio]

Nope, your artillery and rocket systems currently don't have enough range to engage our new rocket systems with PGM.

Ever heard of shoot and scoot?

You do realise if you want to employ artillery on most of our bases, you will have to bring those systems inside India first.

 

[Basel]

is there a plausibility of a rocket artillery using the same munitions as the CBU105
I have always wondered why does not Pakistan develop such a system

There is guided cluster munition available for A-100s which Pakistan have.

You do realise if you want to employ artillery on most of our bases, you will have to bring those systems inside India first.

Nope, if we want to hit your 30km bases from border then extended range shells can do that from 50+ range but newer guided long range rocket systems will be important in this matter.

 

[randomradio]

Nope, if we want to hit your 30km bases from border then extended range shells can do that from 50+ range but newer guided long range rocket systems will be important in this matter.

If you want to hit our bases 30Km away, that means you have brought your artillery to a distance of 10-20Km from the border, ie, in the same area where our army is also operating? Yep, sounds about right.

But then I have no idea how this will defeat the S-400, which will be located at least 120Km from the border.

 

[Dazzler]

If you want to hit our bases 30Km away, that means you have brought your artillery to a distance of 10-20Km from the border, ie, in the same area where our army is also operating? Yep, sounds about right.

But then I have no idea how this will defeat the S-400, which will be located at least 120Km from the border.

Abdali will do just fine.

 

[Basel]

If you want to hit our bases 30Km away, that means you have brought your artillery to a distance of 10-20Km from the border, ie, in the same area where our army is also operating? Yep, sounds about right.

But then I have no idea how this will defeat the S-400, which will be located at least 120Km from the border.

SEAD will be done step wise and first priority is to take out first line of defense, Indian air defense will be dealt with as whole system not just one S-400, and S-400 will be much easier to handle compared to other Indian air defence systems because China and Turkey will test them against their system and will also allow Pakistan to test its capabilities against it.

China could test HD-1 against its S-400 and then it can be customized as well.

 

[Zulfiqar]

A 100 with range of 120 km and several other systems have also been deployed with cluster warheads in order to Target AD related targets within that range.

 

[randomradio]

SEAD will be done step wise and first priority is to take out first line of defense, Indian air defense will be dealt with as whole system not just one S-400, and S-400 will be much easier to handle compared to other Indian air defence systems because China and Turkey will test them against their system and will also allow Pakistan to test its capabilities against it.

I don't think facing off against Turkey or China will help you against Indian S-400. All SAMs are part of a network of systems. You will have to destroy the system as a whole, just targeting one SAM won't work.

Your solutions against the Indian SAM network should be India specific. Tactics that work against Chinese or Turkish S-400 may not work with India.

China could test HD-1 against its S-400 and then it can be customized as well.

HD-1 is not a PLA project. But you are free to throw money at it.

Let's not forget that the same S-400 will soon be capable of defeating even hypersonic cruise missiles as long as the new SAMs become available.

Abdali will do just fine.

Too many types of SAMs around that can intercept this missile, including Akash, QRSAM, SPYDER-MR and Barak.

Here's an interesting snippet about SRBMs and S-300.
https://army-news.ru/2010/10/kompleks-s300-vpervye-porazil/
“ The density of the strike reached six targets per minute, and in just two minutes of the battle, 14 target missiles were destroyed - analogs of the potential means of an air attack of a potential enemy ,” said the general.

 

[Basel]

I don't think facing off against Turkey or China will help you against Indian S-400. All SAMs are part of a network of systems. You will have to destroy the system as a whole, just targeting one SAM won't work.

Your solutions against the Indian SAM network should be India specific. Tactics that work against Chinese or Turkish S-400 may not work with India.



HD-1 is not a PLA project. But you are free to throw money at it.

Let's not forget that the same S-400 will soon be capable of defeating even hypersonic cruise missiles as long as the new SAMs become available.



Too many types of SAMs around that can intercept this missile, including Akash, QRSAM, SPYDER-MR and Barak.

Here's an interesting snippet about SRBMs and S-300.
https://army-news.ru/2010/10/kompleks-s300-vpervye-porazil/
“ The density of the strike reached six targets per minute, and in just two minutes of the battle, 14 target missiles were destroyed - analogs of the potential means of an air attack of a potential enemy ,” said the general.

These along with HD-1 and other systems of Pakistani military in NCW environment with good EW capabilities can be SEAD weapons of Pakistan up to 300km inside India.

 

[randomradio]

These along with HD-1 and other systems of Pakistani military in NCW environment with good EW capabilities can be SEAD weapons of Pakistan up to 300km inside India.

You need hypersonic weapons now, not supersonic, and only if the Russians refuse to sell India the 77N6-N and 77N6-N1. HD-1 is too little too late for Pakistan, unless the Chinese are offering at least mach 5.

As for artillery, you can forget about using MBRLs to defeat SAMs, they won't even get close. You need it to fight the IA anyway. If you divert precious MBRLs towards SEAD missions, which doesn't work in the first place, the IA will simply push through elsewhere.

EW is not an option for Pakistan unless Pakistan actually starts developing its own resources. All your imports will be useless in a real war.

What you need is very, very high end stealth aircraft similar to what the Americans are working on through LRS-B and PCA. Without this, any sort of plan you have against SAMs is DOA.

 

[Ultima Thule]

You need hypersonic weapons now, not supersonic, and only if the Russians refuse to sell India the 77N6-N and 77N6-N1. HD-1 is too little too late for Pakistan, unless the Chinese are offering at least mach 5.

As for artillery, you can forget about using MBRLs to defeat SAMs, they won't even get close. You need it to fight the IA anyway. If you divert precious MBRLs towards SEAD missions, which doesn't work in the first place, the IA will simply push through elsewhere.

EW is not an option for Pakistan unless Pakistan actually starts developing its own resources. All your imports will be useless in a real war.

What you need is very, very high end stealth aircraft similar to what the Americans are working on through LRS-B and PCA. Without this, any sort of plan you have against SAMs is DOA.

Ok we are defenseless against India now happy @randomradio

 

[randomradio]

Ok we are defenseless against India now happy @randomradio

Not unless you get very high end stealth capability. Much more than what the F-35 offers. Unless, by the time you get it, the S-400 is superseded by something better.

There are still ways to counter the S-400 that no one here has brought up yet. I won't be speaking about it unless someone else brings it up. But even there, Pak has not made enough investment, but it's a very good option.