Pakistan working on Nuclear Submarine ?

[_NOBODY_]

Yes and most probably they will come with Chinese cruise missiles or perhaps Pakistan will go with Babur. Either way, the moment they arrive, Pakistan's TRIAD will be opertionalised.

I think these submarines would be equipped with submarine launched variant of Babur.

 

[Djinn]

I think these submarines would be equipped with submarine launched variant of Babur.

Let's see what Pakistan opts for, thou i would really like if Pakistan develops a one which has long range and is supersonic. Instead of working on a SSBN, Pakistan better work on a capable cruise missile first.

 

[_NOBODY_]

Let's see what Pakistan opts for, thou i would really like if Pakistan develops a one which has long range and is supersonic. Instead of working on a SSBN, Pakistan better work on a capable cruise missile first.

Subsonic cruise missiles are more agile, more stealthy, more accurate and they can be used against moving targets. Both subsonic and supersonic cruise missiles have different purpose.

 

[Djinn]

Subsonic cruise missiles are more agile, more stealthy, more accurate and they can be used against moving targets. Both subsonic and supersonic cruise missiles have different purpose.

Supersonic missiles make it difficult for the defence systems to engage and destroy. Like the Chinese YJ-18, it is subsonic but when in terminal stage it goes supersonic, which makes it a perfect cruise missile in my books. I don't know about Babur, but you can share info about it's cool features.

 

[Penguin]

Wont it have something to do with the area it have to cover/patrol?

No. We are talking SSBN remember. They don't patrol like SSNs would. They sail to the area from which they can strike their intended target(s) and remain there.

The number of 5 I have taken from US carrier deployment: the US needs to maintain 10 CVNs in order to be able to handle two major conflicts at any given time. The logic behind this is : 1 on station, 1 going back to port, 1 in port getting ready for the next tour, 1 underway to the mission area, 1 undergoing maintenance.

You might skip that last one.

UK: 4 active SSBN + 7 active SSN
France: 4 active SSBN + 6 active SSN
China: 5 active SSBN + 6 active SSN

Russia and US are different cases.

 

[_NOBODY_]

Supersonic missiles make it difficult for the defence systems to engage and destroy. Like the Chinese YJ-18, it is subsonic but when in terminal stage it goes supersonic, which makes it a perfect cruise missile in my books. I don't know about Babur, but you can share info about it's cool features.

Supersonic missiles are used to destroy to large areas whereas subsonic cruise missiles are used to destroy small and very specific areas.
Take an example of anti-ship missiles, supersonic or hypersonic missiles are used to destroy aircraft carriers or very slow moving targets whereas subsonic missiles are used to destroy moving targets.

 

[Djinn]

Supersonic missiles are used to destroy to large areas whereas subsonic cruise missiles are used to destroy small and very specific areas.

In this case, since Pakistan is looking for a sea based second strike capability, doesn't a supersonic cruise missile serve this purpose well?

 

[_NOBODY_]

In this case, since Pakistan is looking for a sea based second strike capability, doesn't a supersonic cruise missile serve this purpose well?

It does and I am very curious about this. We need fast cruise missiles as well for sea-based second strike. @The Deterrent do you think that our military has plans for fast cruise missiles as well ?

 

[James David]

Pakistan should try for it, if we succeed in this effort Pakistan will be come as a super power

So does that mean Pakistan wants to be a superpower @barbarosa ? Let me ask you a question then, why in the world would the Pakistani Government spend a lot of money it can barely afford when that money can be used to educate and raise the living standards of its citizens? You might answer its for deterrent against your neighbor or whatever, but for crying out loud, money doesnt grow on trees in Pakistan. China is an example, before becoming what it is today, it has chosen to invest in educating its people not by arming to the teeth first. I mean I dont think India is going to invade you guys anytime soon with your nukes and all. May I have your take on this one @Oscar ?

Its beyond the mean of the country
No way China is giving away its precious new SSBN or SSN designs

Agreed! No country would. Not the sane ones anyway.

 

[Falcon26]

Gen Kadwai is on record stating that naval second strike capability will come online in the next few years. So it's something in the pipeline. Mansoor Ahmed is a very good expert on the Pakistani nuclear program. Perhaps the very best one out there today. I will take his statements seriously.

In terms of submarines, Pakistan could simply follow the Israeli model and mate conventional submarines with nuclear tipped long range cruise missiles to ensure a second strike capability. But work on nuclear propulsion by Pakistan has been in existence since 2012 at least now. No one will have the real answer except the ones in the SPD.

If you would have asked the same question on Pakistan's nuclear capability pre May 28, 1998, the same responses in this thread would have been given. I remember members of the Indian parliament after their nuclear tests in 1998 asking Pakistan to start showing respect to India since India was now a nuclear power and Pakistan (in their minds wasn't) We know how that turned out. If some people want to delude and fantasize themselves, it's best to just let them.

 

[Moon]

2 crashes

When did the second one happen?, this is news to me...

At topic, a nuclear submarine is not desperately needed, a fleet of lethal AIP submarines will keep do the trick.
But then again, I won't be surprised PN manages to bring out a submarine out of nowhere.

conventional submarines with nuclear tipped long range cruise missiles to ensure a second strike capability

This is probably what will happen.

 

[Gufi]

So does that mean Pakistan wants to be a superpower @barbarosa ? Let me ask you a question then, why in the world would the Pakistani Government spend a lot of money it can barely afford when that money can be used to educate and raise the living standards of its citizens? You might answer its for deterrent against your neighbor or whatever, but for crying out loud, money doesnt grow on trees in Pakistan. China is an example, before becoming what it is today, it has chosen to invest in educating its people not by arming to the teeth first. I mean I dont think India is going to invade you guys anytime soon with your nukes and all. May I have your take on this one @Oscar ?

The main problem in Pakistan is not the lack of a budget, but the allocation of funds and corruption. We have no need of certain projects which are more expensive per km then projects like those in the rest of the world.
There are many hospitals, schools and welfare projects which are found on the books but are not really there in reality. The amount found in Baluchistan from someone who is not even that high up in the hierarchy was enough to build 70 primary schools, and that was one person. Another ex minister has a case of 462 billion rupees or about 4.6 billion dollars against him for corruption. These funds were there for improving the life of the common Pakistani but they were used for personal gain.

As for us arming ourselves to the teeth. When our civilians threaten India it makes headline news, but people inside their parliament can go on rambling about funding terrorists against Pakistan, dividing Pakistan into four, or telling their people in their schools that Pakistan is just a failed ideology and that all of the old subcontinent is part of India. Every news channel in India is obsessed with news about how to defeat us in wars, and most training is near our borders, and most tests for missiles are compared to what Pakistan has in their news and how these missiles can destroy Pakistan. All this time Pakistan is busy cleaning terrorist cells, starting from one corner and coming to the other. It is very easy to say do more, but as a military professional, you must understand that we can not start everywhere and expect to properly uproot the problem.
We started from Fata, moved towards Baluchistan and Sindh, and Punjab will come next and there has been news of an imminent operation there. But while we are doing this, all we hear from the other side is hate, divide Pakistan, and what their military superiority means and how they plan to "kill terrorists with terrorists."

These are recorded statements, if you go into the world of intelligence, and where proof is harder to gather read about the claims of our intelligence agencies, and capturing an Indian officer inside Pakistan's troubled province. We do not want war as a nation, but there is only so much rhetoric one can listen to without feeling threatened. India and its nation cries foul when a common civilian talks about hurting India, yet when its leaders do so, the people apparently bury their heads in the sand.

And with changing times, one needs to adapt. I am against spending on nuclear submarines per say, but would rather the current order of submarines from China have vertical launching systems to serve dual purpose instead. But a second strike capability will assure no misadventures occur.
That might have gotten a bit long winded, but one needs to study the country and understand what its priorities are, where the money is actually going, and what are the ground realities.

 

[Djinn]

I mean I dont think India is going to invade you guys anytime soon with your nukes and all. May I have your take on this one @Oscar ?

Indian Cold Start Doctrine.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_Start_(military_doctrine)

India completing its TRIAD can give its leadership a false sense of encouragement to attack Pakistan, same goes for Indian BMD program which is also creating an imbalance in the strategic stability between the two. If Indian's believe that they can absorb/prevent Pakistani nuclear strike then what will stop them is only if Pakistan develop similar capabilities. Keeping Pakistan embroiled in an arms race is a good Indian tactic to prevent Pakistan from spending on it's development.

 

[Cool_Soldier]

Pakistan is forced to go for triad option.Now work is carried on.
Just waiting for platform to be inducted and a new experiment will come out with reasonable nuclear offensive capability to stop adversary powers to use same capability against us.
Good luck PN

 

[zheng2]

you should have at least one nuclear sub,you are a nuclear country.you have the right.