Pakistan will reportedly commence formal negotiations for the T129 ATAK

[DESERT FIGHTER]

° T-129 to replace Cobras, build numbers. Initially 30 will be ordered.

° AH-1Z to form the spearhead, order likely to grow to 25-30 birds.

° Around 20 Mi-35E are planned for Special Ops.

° Z-10 is a stopgap for now.

Eventually, we might be looking at around a decent 100 attack helos in service.

Hard to believe..

Currently PAA, operates between 55-60 cobras ... minus the fennecs.

What is your source though?

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

° T-129 to replace Cobras, build numbers. Initially 30 will be ordered.

° AH-1Z to form the spearhead, order likely to grow to 25-30 birds.

° Around 20 Mi-35E are planned for Special Ops.

° Z-10 is a stopgap for now.

Eventually, we might be looking at around a decent 100 attack helos in service.

Pakistan may also begin seeking a new utility helicopter to replace the Puma. TAI has already signalled intent to offer the T-70 Black Hawk, but I think the Leonardo AW149 is also a strong candidate as it is based on the AW139, uses the very common CT7 turboshaft (similar to the T700 on the AH-1Z), no ITAR issues for arming them, etc.

Hard to believe..

Currently PAA, operates between 55-60 cobras ... minus the fennecs.

What is your source though?

Looping in PAC to manufacture parts and assemble is the key variable. Alan Warnes and Aviation Week confirmed PAC would be involved, which indicates that the T129 is a bigger and longer-term production effort. Moreover, India is swelling its CAS coverage by multiples via the LCH and Apache.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Pakistan may also begin seeking a new utility helicopter to replace the Puma. TAI has already signalled intent to offer the T-70 Black Hawk, but I think the Leonardo AW149 is also a strong candidate as it is based on the AW139, uses the very common CT7 turboshaft (similar to the T700 on the AH-1Z), no ITAR issues for arming them, etc.


Looping in PAC to manufacture parts and assemble is the key variable. Alan Warnes and Aviation Week confirmed PAC would be involved, which indicates that the T129 is a bigger and longer-term production effort. Moreover, India is swelling its CAS coverage by multiples via the LCH and Apache.

Yes, but I doubt PAA would induct 20 MI-35s,30 Super Cobras along with Z-10s as "stop gap".

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Yes, but I doubt PAA would induct 20 MI-35s,30 Super Cobras along with Z-10s as "stop gap".

IHS Jane's was told by Army sources that up to 20 Mi-35 are sought. As for the Z-10 being a stopgap, it might just be in reference to the 3 already with the PAA. As for 30 AH-1Z, the PA wouldn't have spent on logistics and infrastructure for just 12-15 helicopters. Fortunately, the AH-1Z is in production right now for the USMC, which gives the PAA room to order in small batches.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

IHS Jane's was told by Army sources that up to 20 Mi-35 are sought. As for the Z-10 being a stopgap, it might just be in reference to the 3 already with the PAA. As for 30 AH-1Z, the PA wouldn't have spent on logistics and infrastructure for just 12-15 helicopters. Fortunately, the AH-1Z is in production right now for the USMC, which gives the PAA room to order in small batches.

Than Pak ends up with a fleet of 4 different attack helis and a logistical nightmare. And a long term investment.. Pak certainly can't afford to spend that much as of right now..

I see something like

30 T-129s
20+ super cobras

A few MI-35s serving special operations.

 

[Itaalvi]

Supported by AH1Zs and in formation with Mi35s now that's my next desktop pic

Forget AHZ since USA and KSA soon announce Pakistan along with Turkey non-friendly nations.

 

[cabatli_53]

Pakistan may also begin seeking a new utility helicopter to replace the Puma. TAI has already signalled intent to offer the T-70 Black Hawk, but I think the Leonardo AW149 is also a strong candidate as it is based on the AW139, uses the very common CT7 turboshaft (similar to the T700 on the AH-1Z), no ITAR issues for arming them, etc.


Looping in PAC to manufacture parts and assemble is the key variable. Alan Warnes and Aviation Week confirmed PAC would be involved, which indicates that the T129 is a bigger and longer-term production effort. Moreover, India is swelling its CAS coverage by multiples via the LCH and Apache.

I think T-129 Atak deal (If finalized) will open new doors to expand cooperation opportunities for rotor craft systems. When Pakistan started producing some components of Atak along with TAI (Both country may even export Atak with common produced parts which is based on bargain issues and the number of helicopters to be ordered I think), It will be easier to transfer know-how for utility copters as well, since There would already be established a helicopter infrastructure where Turkish/Pakistani engineers will be familiar to work together so TAI will most probably invite Pakistani officials to check new developed 6t T-625 utility helicopter. 3t, 8t and 12t variants of this copter is also agreed to commence development in 2018.

 

[YeBeWarned]

Have they? Haven't seen or read anything about a follow-up order for AH-1z. Perhaps Pakistan is waiting the current order to arrive and integrated into PAA before doing a follow-up order. Of course, there's the whole problem of money.

its just my opinion , no official word that Uncle sam will not release any follow up Order .. Money is no concern , if we can buy 13-15 units with 1000 Hell fire missiles and systems we can do a follow up order after 2018 again , that deal cost us 1 Billion Dollars ..

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Than Pak ends up with a fleet of 4 different attack helis and a logistical nightmare. And a long term investment.. Pak certainly can't afford to spend that much as of right now..

I see something like

30 T-129s
20+ super cobras

A few MI-35s serving special operations.

Normally that fleet would make sense, but since an assembly line is to be in place at Kamra, they might keep adding 3-4 T129s each year after the initial 30. Hence in the long term you could get 60+.

I think T-129 Atak deal (If finalized) will open new doors to expand cooperation opportunities for rotor craft systems. When Pakistan started producing some components of Atak along with TAI (Both country may even export Atak with common produced parts which is based on bargain issues and the number of helicopters to be ordered I think), It will be easier to transfer know-how for utility copters as well, since There would already be established a helicopter infrastructure where Turkish/Pakistani engineers will be familiar to work together so TAI will most probably invite Pakistani officials to check new developed 6t T-625 utility helicopter. 3t, 8t and 12t variants of this copter is also agreed to commence development in 2018.

Interesting. Do you have more information on the 8t and 12t versions? That'd be S-70 and Mi-171 territory.

 

[cabatli_53]

Normally that fleet would make sense, but since an assembly line is to be in place at Kamra, they might keep adding 3-4 T129s each year after the initial 30. Hence in the long term you could get 60+.


Interesting. Do you have more information on the 8t and 12t versions? That'd be S-70 and Mi-171 territory.

Turkey is struggling to establish a big helicopter family infrastructure following similar paths with Agusta-Westland/Leonardo(119,139,149,159..etc). First fruit of this ambitious plan is called T-625 (6 ton, 2 turbo-shaft engine, 5 rotor blade) thanks to market research and costumer requirement analyses. Prototype 625 will fly in 2018 and to be revealed market with both Civilian/Military variants. It is agreed to commence development of 3t (AW-119 variant), 8t(AW-149 variant) variants of this copters (priority) with a family integrity principle. New weight helicopters will fill the gaps/replace the copters, staying same category. All variants will host many common parts and subsystems to reduce handling costs and maintenance/training issues.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Turkey is struggling to establish a big helicopter family infrastructure following similar paths with Agusta-Westland/Leonardo(119,139,149,159..etc). First fruit of this ambitious plan is called T-625 (6 ton, 2 turbo-shaft engine, 5 rotor blade) thanks to market research and costumer requirement analyses. Prototype 625 will fly in 2018 and to be revealed market with both Civilian/Military variants. It is agreed to commence development of 3t (AW-119 variant), 8t(AW-149 variant) variants of this copters (priority) with a family integrity principle. New weight helicopters will fill the gaps/replace the copters, staying same category. All variants will host many common parts and subsystems to reduce handling costs and maintenance/training issues.

So will the 8t helicopter be based on the AW149 or will be an enlarged version of the T-625?

 

[cabatli_53]

So will the 8t helicopter be based on the AW149 or will be an enlarged version of the T-625?

All variants will be enlarged/shortened versions of T-625...

Key question remains about turbo-shaft. TEI develops a domestic turbo-shaft having a calculated power rate of 1400shp to be integrated on T-129 and T-625 copters initially. If everything goes OK with domestic engine to be completed within 5-7 years after commencement, The new variants will be integrated to other domestic copters so I am really excited to witness successful results of turbo-shaft projects. If TEI doesn't succeed to reveal a powerful and reliable turbo-shaft, The USA will sacrifice our big helicopter industry ambitious in accordance with their arrogant politic wishes.

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

All variants will be enlarged/shortened versions of T-625...

Key question remains about turbo-shaft. TEI develops a domestic turbo-shaft having a calculated power rate of 1400shp to be integrated on T-129 and T-625 copters initially. If everything goes OK with domestic engine to be completed within 5-7 years after commencement, The new variants will be integrated to other domestic copters so I am really excited to witness successful results of turbo-shaft projects. If TEI doesn't succeed to reveal a powerful and reliable turbo-shaft, The USA will sacrifice our big helicopter industry ambitious in accordance with their arrogant politic wishes.

Will there be a military version for t-625
Does turkey have a stake in agusta westland because I have heard of a turkish partnership with SAAB or BAE (I think)

 

[Incog_nito]

20 ATAK in every 5 years would be great!

 

[Kompromat]

Colt start + COIN ops doctrine requires increased muscle for rotor wing strike element. If you take the numbers quoted on order we already have 20 + 15 + 30 + 3 = 68 on order. My sources tell me that the ultimate number would be around 100 because of increased orders and a handful of Cobras will remain in storage.

Hard to believe..

Currently PAA, operates between 55-60 cobras ... minus the fennecs.

What is your source though?