Pakistan vs The Taliban: Who Will Win?

[Vinod2070]

Funny to see a "white American Turk Mughal prince" obsessed not with their pathetic "stan" but with South Asian "brown people".

Or it may be just the pathetic identity crisis...

 

[illusion8]

@KRAIT & Popeye

dont be defensive about Kashmir anymore. because let me narrate our Punjab CM Shabaz who says that the Indian Kashmiris came over to Dehli to meet up with a Pakistani Delegation and expressed their regrets and concerns for whatever Pakistanis are suffering due to terrorism. Shabaz continues saying that it was supposed to be the Kashmiris who deserved our sympathies due to the brutal state laws & reprisal of the Indian forces but our own affairs have gone so much down the drain that even Kashmiris feel sorry for us.

if I was an Indian, I would have been celebrating over the death of Kashmir cause due to the actions of LeT, LeJ and TTP & would have invited the Pakistani gullible posters to mention it so that I can demolish their argument because the terrorists in Pakistan have pretty much destroyed the entire Pakistani Kashmir drive. but lets not get too much sidetracked here.

please also request your "MODI-fied" fellow Indians not to hyperventilate over that comment & let it pass for now since I have raised the white flag already.


back to the topic. Pakistan vs Taliban...who will win?
under the current situation the way the war is sold by Pakistani state and the way Taliban sold their war to people... the winner is obviously India...

What the....?

yes.. because the way our state has fraught this war half arsed/ apologetically... it has not only suffered in men and material terms but also in terms of psychologically, war torn areas have mentally accepted the Taliban rule because the state doesnt exist there. so this state as we know it might not exist for long unless there is a dramatic change and turn of events that are significant militarily and politically. and if that doesnt happen, I hate to say that our neighbors like India/ Iran / China would crush the taliban & cook their cheering crowd who have no moral obligation to appease Taliban.

like I said, I wont be alive then to really care about what Indians would be saying on the forum when such day comes. but to avoid that day a credible leadership is needed which cant be dismissed by the public right away due to its tainted past, then only it has the mandate to tell its military to brutally crush the taliban just like the Saudis, Iranians, Turks and Philippines have done to the rebels

Not exactly, Pakistan beseeched by religious fanatics is the last thing that India would want - Sure, "it's a we told you so" moment, but nothing beyond that.

No professional soldier enjoys seeing another army getting psychologically defeated by a bunch of illiterate cave dwelling savages - especially when we have a long history of engaging the same army in numerous standoffs where some degree of mutual respect was on display.

Again, it's a "We told you so" moment and nothing beyond that.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Civilised doesn’t mean “You kill, we talk”. It is outright cowardice.

Nations negotiate from strength. No nation should beg for negotiations when the other side refuses to talk. TTP Chief Fazlullah has declared his refusal to talk with GOP clearly.

Begging for negotiations means “Surrender”. Surrender to Taliban may be the hidden agenda of 'Defa'e Taliban Council' but don't think many Pakistan will agree.

@niaz sahab; you could not be more correct.
There has to only a Rule of Law in a Country; not a Rule of Terror.
For any reasonable Nation to survive, there can be only one Power Center.
If your Countrymen fail to see that their very survival will be at stake.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Again, it's a "We told you so" moment and nothing beyond that.

thats more or less what I meant
you summed it up right.

@KRAIT , you misunderstand me although we know each other on the forum long enough that I no longer make moral judgement specially we better than you argument, I mourn the human cost (not their religion and linage) but I thanked your post anyway.

 

[Pak_Sher]

Pakistan Army needs to pound them hard enough to break their back for good.

 

[illusion8]

thats more or less what I meant
you summed it up right.

@KRAIT , you misunderstand me although we know each other on the forum long enough that I no longer make moral judgement specially we better than you argument, I mourn the human cost (not their religion and linage) but I thanked your post anyway.

If I read your earlier post right, then you implied that the war between Pakistan and the TTP is a win win for India.....far from that, we would take pride in defeating you one on one and not when you are burdened down by incompetent leaders, a badly managed economy, artificially created low morale in the armed forces and a hostile environment, soldiers fighting against all odds and losing lives for no purpose (especially to the scum that is the TTP, xyz etc etc) does not go down well with any equally respected armed forces.

An IED or a suicide bomb is the most cowardly way to kill a fighter or a soldier, an army that loses it's soldiers to such cowardice is looked at with sympathy by it's contemporary.

I would like you to present me with one statement from any Indian leader, speaker, army spokesman or anyone else who have expressed any negative feelings towards PA's fight against extremism.

Again "we told you so" as in, supporting the snakes and rearing animals in your backyard being a failed policy is the oft repeated lesson.

 

[niaz]

I think we are 'responding with strength' from 10 years .. quite enough to get 'better results'. But what we actually got? more terrorism, now please give peace a chance.

Taliban have had a safe haven in North Waziristan since ever with Gen Kiyani refusing to do anything even though all the jails breaks in KPK originated from there. How can anyone seriously believe that we have been fighting for 10 years?

Pak army has never had free hand. Only time it acted was in Swat. Otherwise each time PA starts Taliban lovers unite to stop them. Just like now Taliban attacked Pak soldiers and Defa’e Taliban traitors want PA action to stop. How will an army defend Pakistan when it cannot even defend itself?

Just look at the leaders, Sami ul Haq never tires of calling himself father of Taliban. And Liaqat Baluch belong to the anti-Pakistan Jamaat Islami who call killers of Pak soldiers ‘Shaheed’ but declare that PA jeans that lost their lives in the service of Pakistan are not. If this is not treason than what is it?

 

[Irfan Baloch]

If I read your earlier post right, then you implied that the war between Pakistan and the TTP is a win win for India...

no I meant, we cant win under the current policy and ambiguity where the hands of our forces are tied back & they have hostile media, politicians and judiciary to confront rather than just the terrorists.

indirectly meaning that it meant Taliban would win and would be only defeated by our neighbors including India (an apocalyptic scenario where state of Pakistan is no more) who wont stop to kill taliban just because it breaks the heart of Hamid Mir (the self proclaimed Pro Taliban/ Al Qaeda media anchor who interviewed Bin laden) and Jamat Islami leadership.

And Liaqat Baluch belong to the anti-Pakistan Jamaat Islami who call killers of Pak soldiers ‘Shaheed’ but declare that PA jeans that lost their lives in the service of Pakistan are not. If this is not treason than what is it?

the Burqa Clam scumbag who leads the prayers in Red Mosque went even further and said that the Pakistani soldiers killed at the hands of Taliban dont deserve an Islamic burial or prayers and should be left on the roads as they have died as infidels.

the scumbag leads prayers in the heart of Pakistan and shows the middle finger to our national pride and self respect.

 

[illusion8]

no I meant, we cant win under the current policy and ambiguity where the hands of our forces are tied back & they have hostile media, politicians and judiciary to confront rather than just the terrorists.

indirectly meaning that it meant Taliban would win and would be only defeated by our neighbors inducing India (an apocalyptic scenario) who wont stop to kill taliban just because it breaks the heart of Hamid Mir (the self proclaimed Pro Taliban/ Al Qaeda media anchor who interviewed Bin laden) and Jamat Islami leadership.

I got your point now Irfanji.

The only worry is the pro taliban factions are increasing at a steady rate. The surprise here is Jamaat still exists even after being openly anti Pakistan army......says a lot about the odds that are getting stacked up against the PA's war against the TTP.

 

[freelancer93]

Taliban have had a safe haven in North Waziristan since ever with Gen Kiyani refusing to do anything even though all the jails breaks in KPK originated from there. How can anyone seriously believe that we have been fighting for 10 years?

Pak army has never had free hand. Only time it acted was in Swat. Otherwise each time PA starts Taliban lovers unite to stop them. Just like now Taliban attacked Pak soldiers and Defa’e Taliban traitors want PA action to stop. How will an army defend Pakistan when it cannot even defend itself?

Just look at the leaders, Sami ul Haq never tires of calling himself father of Taliban. And Liaqat Baluch belong to the anti-Pakistan Jamaat Islami who call killers of Pak soldiers ‘Shaheed’ but declare that PA jeans that lost their lives in the service of Pakistan are not. If this is not treason than what is it?

I'm not asking about what political parties are calling or doing, because if we go there then it's a long debate in its own self, all I'm saying is that there should be a process 'a legal judicial process' they should take FATA and Wazirstan's people in their confidence instead of opposing war and of course people can do that through dialogues.

 

[Vinod2070]

no I meant, we cant win under the current policy and ambiguity where the hands of our forces are tied back & they have hostile media, politicians and judiciary to confront rather than just the terrorists.

indirectly meaning that it meant Taliban would win and would be only defeated by our neighbors including India (an apocalyptic scenario where state of Pakistan is no more) who wont stop to kill taliban just because it breaks the heart of Hamid Mir (the self proclaimed Pro Taliban/ Al Qaeda media anchor who interviewed Bin laden) and Jamat Islami leadership.


the Burqa Clam scumbag who leads the prayers in Red Mosque went even further and said that the Pakistani soldiers killed at the hands of Taliban dont deserve an Islamic burial or prayers and should be left on the roads as they have died as infidels.

the scumbag leads prayers in the heart of Pakistan and shows the middle finger to our national pride and self respect.

Don't you think that these are only mere symptoms?

The inevitable milestones on a journey with little freedom of action once the basic parameters of the direction for the country were defined at the time of it's creation (or even much earlier).

In the broader scheme of things, much of what is happening was probably preordained. The people responsible probably had little real freedom of action.

I think the mess in our region will take at least a few decades to sort itself out. Unfortunately there is a huge human cost that we will all end up paying even more than we have already done.

 

[Jzaib]

what is mollah omar then,if not a terrorist?
kindly share ur thought.....

i think u can just wiki pediea the history .. after US left Afghans when rassia was defeated. all the areas have small war lords ... they controlled the area .. mullah omar agained popularity and pakistan supported them .. he got control of afghanistan .. he was welcomed all over afghanistan ( leader he couldnt perfom his popularity gown down ) ... but did he kill any one from west .. Osama helped them a alot during the fight against US .. west and middlesten countires helped him to be frnds with muallah omar .. did he supported osama in his acts .. NO ... when he hand over osama he said provide proofs ..if he was found guilty he will be dealth with according to law .. US didnt agree attacked afghanistan .. he is just fighting back .. how is a terrorist ?

 

[halupridol]

i think u can just wiki pediea the history .. after US left Afghans when rassia was defeated. all the areas have small war lords ... they controlled the area .. mullah omar agained popularity and pakistan supported them .. he got control of afghanistan .. he was welcomed all over afghanistan ( leader he couldnt perfom his popularity gown down ) ... but did he kill any one from west .. Osama helped them a alot during the fight against US .. west and middlesten countires helped him to be frnds with muallah omar .. did he supported osama in his acts .. NO ... when he hand over osama he said provide proofs ..if he was found guilty he will be dealth with according to law .. US didnt agree attacked afghanistan .. he is just fighting back .. how is a terrorist ?

already know that much....................u want to say the leader of the taliban(spiritual or whatever),is not a terrorist.........what can i say man.....

 

[Jzaib]

already know that much....................u want to say the leader of the taliban(spiritual or whatever),is not a terrorist.........what can i say man.....

u can say i am right just bcoz US invaded afghanistan and he is fighting back does that make him terrorist .. if yes then gandhi nehru jinnah and all the people who gave up there lives for sub continent is a terrorist as well

 

[halupridol]

u can say i am right just bcoz US invaded afghanistan and he is fighting back does that make him terrorist .. if yes then gandhi nehru jinnah and all the people who gave up there lives for sub continent is a terrorist as well

no.....dont do that....
dont draw parallels between gandi nehru jinnah and some taliban....thats outrageous..
u may not agree ......but his repertoire is well known,,,,the world sees him as a terrorist..
lets end it at that......