Pakistan to purchase latest fighter planes, submarines: Tanveer

[he-man]

This is why PAF should purchase Su-35s if they have opportunity to have them.

Quote:

This is not actually a typical VS thread because both these fighters are operated by friendly countries. So the probability of these 2 fighting against each other is Zero. This is just to see how these 2 compares with each other and also, gives an idea of what the Super-Sukhoi-30MKI might derive out of the Su-35S platform.

Su-35S(formerly Su-35BM) is the most recent and the most advanced of the Su-27 family. It has a all-metal structure, but unlike other Su-27 family fighters, it's comprised of titanium composites. As a result its airframe life is higher than the others. Its avionics is one of the best, and its radar is the best in the world in range. How does it compare with its cousin the successful Su-30MKI family comprising of Su-30MKI, Su-30MKM and Su-30MKA?

Below are the similarities between Su-30MKI and Su-35S:
12 Hard Points
8000kgs external ordinance
G-limit 9
Same Air-Air and Air-Ground weapons package
Has Thrust Vectoring
Can house external jammers and all varieties of pods.
Has inflight re-fueling
etc.. etc..


Differences:
Su-30MKI-
Maximum internal fuel - 9,640kgs
Max Range(without mid-air refueling) - 3000kms
Max ceiling - 17.3km
Max Speed - Mach 1.9
Canards - Yes
Crew - 2
Max Afterburner Thrust - 12500kgf, Emergency Thrust - 12800kgf
External Fuel Tanks - No
Composites - Not in significant quantity.
Empty Weight - unknown. Estimated to be around 18400kgs.
Airframe life - 3,000hrs or 15 years(at 200 hours flight time each year)
Internal Jammer - No
RCS - unofficial estimate 11.5m2
Airbrake - Yes
Supercruise- No


Su-35S-
Maximum internal fuel - 11,500kgs
Max Range(without mid-air refueling, without external fuel tanks) - 3600kms
Max ceiling - 18km
Max Speed - Mach 2.25
Canards - No (since radar isn't heavy)
Crew - 1
Max Afterburner Thrust - 14500kgf(gives a massive boost to TWR compared to Su-30MKI)
External Fuel Tanks - Yes (can carry 2 drop tanks of 1400kgs fuel in each of them)
Composites - Yes. Extensive use of Titanium Alloys.
Empty Weight - Unknown. Estimated to be around 18800kgs.
Airframe life - 6,000hrs or 30 years(at 200 hours flight time each year)
Internal Jammer - Yes
RCS - unofficial estimate between 1-3m2
Airbrake - No. Powerful modified rudders act as Airbrakes.
Supercruise - Yes

Radar-
This deserves a separate mention. Because this is where the difference is at its max.
Su-30MKI has a N-011M BARS Radar
Transmitter peak power - 5kw
Transmitter average power - 1.2kw
Can Track- 15 Targets
Can Simultaneously Engage - 4 Targets
Max Detection for 5 sqm RCS - 140 km(Upgraded Radar with upgraded transmitter power, if any in service, its range is unknown.)

Su-35S has N-035 IRBIS-E. The most powerful Fighter Plane mounted X Band radar in the world. Specs are as follows.
Transmitter peak power - 20kw
Transmitter average power - 5kw
Can Track - 30 Targets
Can Simultaneously Engage - 8 Targets
Max Detection for 5 sqm RCS - 426 km
Max Detection for 3 sqm RCS - 375 km
Max Detection for 1 sqm RCS - 285 km
Max Detection for 0.01 sqm RCS - 90 km

Unquote:

Su-30MKI vs Su-35S



Good news are coming but our govt is so corrupt that one can expect any finalized deal to go off. Hope we got what is said by Minister of Defense Production.

The new bars mk2 is 7-8 kw.
Rest seems alright.

But point is no money and no offer.

Absolutely not an Indian.. detest that label being applied...am a Hindustani.



There is no direct answer to evade. Its like us debating "Choli ke peechay kya hai".

Is that debatable too??

 

[Basel]

The new bars mk2 is 7-8 kw.
Rest seems alright.

But point is no money and no offer.



Is that debatable too??

If a Defense production minister is saying that his country is going to purchase fighter jets from Russia & Submarines from China then it means money and offer both are there. Only negotiations matters and here what I m worried about.

Sukhoi Company (JSC) - Airplanes - Military Aircraft - Su-35

 

[SQ8]

Oil and water does not MIX!

Hindustani being a PDF Moderator?

PDF donation would come to a screeching halt. (wheels)
Time for the lubrication.

Hindustan has no exclusivity with India today.

 

[he-man]

If a Defense production minister is saying that his country is going to purchase fighter jets from Russia & Submarines from China then it means money and offer both are there. Only negotiations matters and here what I m worried about.

Sukhoi Company (JSC) - Airplanes - Military Aircraft - Su-35

It means he does not know what a fighter jet really is.
No need to tell me whats in su-35.

On topic unit price is 70-75 million at least,,if u get this there will be no money for fc-31

Hindustan has no exclusivity with India today.

I always knew u were a hindustani,,let it be known today.

 

[Basel]

It means he does not know what a fighter jet really is.
No need to tell me whats in su-35.

On topic unit price is 70-75 million at least,,if u get this there will be no money for fc-31

After getting Su-35 (if news is true) PAF will not need new jet for at least 10 years and PAK FA will be entering in full production at that time, and our economy is improving with huge investments coming from China, Qatar, UK, Russia and few other countries so PAF will be able to afford 5th gen fighter, its not necessary that PAF will go for J-31/FC-31.

Defense minister did not specify the jet which Pakistan will be purchasing from Russia it could be Su-30 or Su-35 or even Mig-35, but which ever jet will be purchased it will be PAF's first 4++ gen jet adding more what F-16s have provided.

 

[he-man]

After getting Su-35 (if news is true) PAF will not need new jet for at least 10 years and PAK FA will be entering in full production at that time, and our economy is improving with huge investments coming from China, Qatar, UK, Russia and few other countries so PAF will be able to afford 5th gen fighter, its not necessary that PAF will go for J-31/FC-31.

Defense minister did not specify the jet which Pakistan will be purchasing from Russia it could be Su-30 or Su-35 or even Mig-35, but which ever jet will be purchased it will be PAF's first 4++ gen jet adding more what F-16s have provided.

Man u are in complete denial here,what can i say.

Why would russia sell u su-35 when its making pakfa with us and we are gonna operate 272 mki??Not to forget 50-60 mig-29k,brahmos-2(hypersonic),,mta transport plane etc etc.??

Just for selling 18 odd fighters it cannot risk orders worth 100 billion(including nuclear power plants) over 30 year period.

 

[Basel]

Man u are in complete denial here,what can i say.

Why would russia sell u su-35 when its making pakfa with us and we are gonna operate 272 mki??Not to forget 50-60 mig-29k,brahmos-2(hypersonic),,mta transport plane etc etc.??

Just for selling 18 odd fighters it cannot risk orders worth 100 billion(including nuclear power plants) over 30 year period.

Man, you Indians are living in dreams, first you never believe that Russia will sell us weapons now we have military pact and now you are saying why they will sell Su-35 to Pakistan, its because we can gave them strategic leverage which India can't, now India is only financial help to them not strategic one as India is leaning towards US & west, whereas Russia is loosing its friends in ME and they are nearly thrown out from there by west, also Afghanistan is another area of their concern, they need someone who can help them there and Pakistan is in very good position for that.

Man, you Indians are living in dreams, first you never believe that Russia will sell us weapons now we have military pact and now you are saying why they will sell Su-35 to Pakistan, its because we can gave them strategic leverage which India can't, now India is only financial help to them not strategic one as India is leaning towards US & west, whereas Russia is loosing its friends in ME and they are nearly thrown out from there by west, also Afghanistan is another area of their concern, they need someone who can help them there and Pakistan is in very good position for that.

Who told you that Pakistan is going for just 18 fighter?? did u forgot that in military pact between Russia and Pakistan Air force training is important part, now why PAF will like to train in Russia when they can train with west and they even don't have Russian equipment? this clause shows that PAF is willing to purchase Russian jets and our staff will be trained by Russians so they can fly and maintain them.

 

[he-man]

Man, you Indians are living in dreams, first you never believe that Russia will sell us weapons now we have military pact and now you are saying why they will sell Su-35 to Pakistan, its because we can gave them strategic leverage which India can't, now India is only financial help to them not strategic one as India is leaning towards US & west, whereas Russia is loosing its friends in ME and they are nearly thrown out from there by west, also Afghanistan is another area of their concern, they need someone who can help them there and Pakistan is in very good position for that.



Who told you that Pakistan is going for just 18 fighter?? did u forgot that in military pact between Russia and Pakistan Air force training is important part, now why PAF will like to train in Russia when they can train with west and they even don't have Russian equipment? this clause shows that PAF is willing to purchase Russian jets and our staff will be trained by Russians so they can fly and maintain them.

Bookmark ur post and open this after 5 years.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

@he-man

Before being over confident we must know the state of Russian economy

Russian economy is LOOSING Dollars at an alarming rate
New inflows have also stopped

And the decline in oil prices has hurt them even more ; Now if India STEPS up to the plate
and buys a lot of things ONLY then Russia will not sell any thing to Pakistan

Suppose Pakistan has earmarked 2 BILLION dollars for Russian Arms purchases
We will have to BUY much more than that

And we too do not have infinite money

 

[he-man]

@he-man

Before being over confident we must know the state of Russian economy

Russian economy is LOOSING Dollars at an alarming rate
New inflows have also stopped

And the decline in oil prices has hurt them even more ; Now if India STEPS up to the plate
and buys a lot of things ONLY then Russia will not sell any thing to Pakistan

Suppose Pakistan has earmarked 2 BILLION dollars for Russian Arms purchases
We will have to BUY much more than that

And we too do not have infinite money

We have much more than pakistan,,and gap is increasing every year.

We will be using 10-20 nuclear reactors from russians too,,can pakistan do that??
Can they buy 200 pakfa in future??
Will they pay for mlu of 272+ mki and 50-60 mig-29k??
Will they induct 1000's of brahmos mk2 when its produced?
Will they but MTA?
Mlu of vikramaditya?
possibility of new frigates and subs?

These are a combined worth of 100 billion over next 30 years.



Can they leave this money for 10-15 billion??

 

[SQ8]

The level of speculation on the statement of the Minister is typical as expected, one side is up to its usual cynical bullshit while the other is dreaming of a bear hug.

I always knew u were a hindustani,,let it be known today.

I consider it an identity. The land that is the subcontinent has been known as hind before the inception of Islam. The people of it called Hindus... those that came to settle there were identified as Muslims of Hind and developed their own cultural identity separate that from both the settlers and invaders they came from and the general local population. That identity is unique to the land of Hindustan and is found nowhere else.

We have much more than pakistan,,and gap is increasing every year.

We will be using 10-20 nuclear reactors from russians too,,can pakistan do that??
Can they buy 200 pakfa in future??
Will they pay for mlu of 272+ mki and 50-60 mig-29k??
Will they induct 1000's of brahmos mk2 when its produced?
Will they but MTA?

These are a combined worth of 100 billion over next 30 years.



Can they leave this money for 10-15 billion??

That is one worth of it. But we have to weigh that worth in its present value with the risk added over the years. What if India turns around to completely suckle up to the US in response to an aggressive China? A far fetched what if but a what if that Moscow does consider in its calculations.
What of the potential that Moscow might get returning with a presence in Afg, then moving onto a presence in the middle east via Pakistan. All these little itsy bitsy "costs" go into the overall calculations.

 

[pursuit of happiness]

@he-man

Before being over confident we must know the state of Russian economy

Russian economy is LOOSING Dollars at an alarming rate
New inflows have also stopped

And the decline in oil prices has hurt them even more ; Now if India STEPS up to the plate
and buys a lot of things ONLY then Russia will not sell any thing to Pakistan

Suppose Pakistan has earmarked 2 BILLION dollars for Russian Arms purchases
We will have to BUY much more than that

And we too do not have infinite money

--
Russia.. cant cut indina defence contract for pak....
india is too imp economuy .. politiclay than pak.. as pak still runs on US .. and Crimea .. USA and Russia ar crossroad..
and india with Russia to nmae one of many ..
What russia can sell pak - helis.. even Su30.. who wil pay .. ? can pak pay in hard cash... do they ahve it..
list indian proeject and ivestent now and next 10 yrs vsi a svis pak you will get ans

We have much more than pakistan,,and gap is increasing every year.

We will be using 10-20 nuclear reactors from russians too,,can pakistan do that??
Can they buy 200 pakfa in future??
Will they pay for mlu of 272+ mki and 50-60 mig-29k??
Will they induct 1000's of brahmos mk2 when its produced?
Will they but MTA?
Mlu of vikramaditya?
possibility of new frigates and subs?

These are a combined worth of 100 billion over next 30 years.



Can they leave this money for 10-15 billion??

--
what pak stand on crimea ? heeeee..

The level of speculation on the statement of the Minister is typical as expected, one side is up to its usual cynical bullshit while the other is dreaming of a bear hug.




I consider it an identity. The land that is the subcontinent has been known as hind before the inception of Islam. The people of it called Hindus... those that came to settle there were identified as Muslims of Hind and developed their own cultural identity separate that from both the settlers and invaders they came from and the general local population. That identity is unique to the land of Hindustan and is found nowhere else.



That is one worth of it. But we have to weigh that worth in its present value with the risk added over the years. What if India turns around to completely suckle up to the US in response to an aggressive China? A far fetched what if but a what if that Moscow does consider in its calculations.
What of the potential that Moscow might get returning with a presence in Afg, then moving onto a presence in the middle east via Pakistan. All these little itsy bitsy "costs" go into the overall calculations.

--
India never suked up to us when we were in in hard time .. do you think now we will do..
we may be one of few countires who balance if not get respect by rusia nad usa same time ..
our national intreset kept few decidon away ..liek no one got MMRCA but fracne becuase IAF wants in operationaly and not GOI politically..so it will cost us.. and we are ready p ay it..
--
Think moscow again in afg and response o YOUR f freedom figter in pak

 

[he-man]

The level of speculation on the statement of the Minister is typical as expected, one side is up to its usual cynical bullshit while the other is dreaming of a bear hug.




I consider it an identity. The land that is the subcontinent has been known as hind before the inception of Islam. The people of it called Hindus... those that came to settle there were identified as Muslims of Hind and developed their own cultural identity separate that from both the settlers and invaders they came from and the general local population. That identity is unique to the land of Hindustan and is found nowhere else.



That is one worth of it. But we have to weigh that worth in its present value with the risk added over the years. What if India turns around to completely suckle up to the US in response to an aggressive China? A far fetched what if but a what if that Moscow does consider in its calculations.
What of the potential that Moscow might get returning with a presence in Afg, then moving onto a presence in the middle east via Pakistan. All these little itsy bitsy "costs" go into the overall calculations.

Nope.........only thing that can get stuck is future subs and frigates,,,rest all are more or less concrete.

 

[jupiter2007]

The level of this forum has fallen too low with all these rumours day in and day out with people speculating without even thinking.

Russia already has supplied 50+ mig-29k to india,we will eventually have 272 mki's and are going to sign pakfa contract sooner rather than later nd u guys think russia will jeopardise all that just to sell 15-18 fighters to pakistan??

There is 0 possibility.



Su-35 is miles ahead of jf-17 in anything,,point is neither pakistan has the money to get it at this point ,nor it will be sold to pakistan.

1st of all Russian can sell whatever they want to Pakistan regardless of their friendship and business partnership with Indian. 2nd, Pakistan is not in need of SU-30, it's operational cost is twice compare to F-16 block 50+ which Pakistan can't afford at this time. Pakistan need to concentrate on Jf-17 block 2 and redesign more stealthily block 3 with will incorporate the technology of J-10b.

 

[Sine Nomine]

Dosen't work like that.
The goodies will be relatively harmless stuff like pantsir or buk.

It does not matter as pakistan can get better stuff from china anyway like fc-31.

Well then it seems you are only Indian Member who has got this point that"if not Russia then Pak will get copies of it weapons from either China or Ukraine"this has compelled Russia to change strategy of it's military sales,all EU,Russia,USA is money whether you gave or Pakistan gave.