Pakistan To Participate In Turkey’s TFX Next-Gen Fighter Aircraft Program

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Even the FC-31?

In my opinion, yes. Pakistan will not be investing in a fighter development program to the tune it has done with the JF-17 for quite some time. Doesn't mean it won't need newer solutions, but I feel the next acquisition won't heavily stress indigenization as much as the JF-17. Rather, domestic MRO, access to the platform (to configure it with our choice of weapons, radar, avionics, etc), and some parts manufacturing (and maybe partial assembly) will be enough. It'd be similar to the network we have to back our Mirage III/5.

is it because we may see block 4's and 5's in JF ?

Possibly, yes.

 

[T-123456]

In my opinion, yes. Pakistan will not be investing in a fighter development program to the tune it has done with the JF-17 for quite some time. Doesn't mean it won't need newer solutions, but I feel the next acquisition won't heavily stress indigenization as much as the JF-17. Rather, domestic MRO, access to the platform (to configure it with our choice of weapons, radar, avionics, etc), and some parts manufacturing (and maybe partial assembly) will be enough. It'd be similar to the network we have to back our Mirage III/5.

You would need at least 200(my guess),wouldnt it be better to have a production line like you have with the JF-17,think about the costs for that amount if bought off-the-shelf?

 

[war&peace]

Maybe first customer not Pakistan,friend

I think P

In my opinion, yes. Pakistan will not be investing in a fighter development program to the tune it has done with the JF-17 for quite some time. Doesn't mean it won't need newer solutions, but I feel the next acquisition won't heavily stress indigenization as much as the JF-17. Rather, domestic MRO, access to the platform (to configure it with our choice of weapons, radar, avionics, etc), and some parts manufacturing (and maybe partial assembly) will be enough. It'd be similar to the network we have to back our Mirage III/5.

But according to ACM Sohail Amman, PAF is investing heavily in the aviation city with an aim to prepare facilities and brain required for the next gen platform and this indicates even a deeper involvement at the very beginning of the program.

 

[YeBeWarned]

You would need at least 200(my guess),wouldnt it be better to have a production line like you have with the JF-17,think about the costs for that amount if bought off-the-shelf?

the next and upcoming generation of planes does not require so high numbers for any country , unless you are some Dumb Arab Country which just buy everything by selling some Oil wells .. the more Sophisticated the technology is becoming the numbers are shrinking ... for example you wont see F-22 , Rafale and Euro Fighter in Hundreds for USA, France and UK as they did with F-16's , Mirages ..
i don't see any specific reason for Turkey to put this condition of PAF to buy a huge number in order to place the Assemly lines .. but if PAF decide to go for it i would go for numbers more than 50+ at least

 

[T-123456]

the next and upcoming generation of planes does not require so high numbers for any country , unless you are some Dumb Arab Country which just buy everything by selling some Oil wells .. the more Sophisticated the technology is becoming the numbers are shrinking ... for example you wont see F-22 , Rafale and Euro Fighter in Hundreds for USA, France and UK as they did with F-16's , Mirages ..
i don't see any specific reason for Turkey to put this condition of PAF to buy a huge number in order to place the Assemly lines .. but if PAF decide to go for it i would go for numbers more than 50+ at least

Why would Turkiye put any condition on your participation,with or without you,the TFX project is a go?
You cannot compare your country to the US or the Europeans,in case of a war,you have an enemy with an airforce of at least double the size of yours with also plans to go 5th gen so,i dont think 50+ 5th gen will not be enough.

 

[YeBeWarned]

Why would Turkiye put any condition on your participation,with or without you,the TFX project is a go?
You cannot compare your country to the US or the Europeans,in case of a war,you have an enemy with an airforce of at least double the size of yours with also plans to go 5th gen so,i dont think 50+ 5th gen will be enough.

what i mean to say that, I see no reason Turkey to put a Condition on PAF to buy high numbers like 100+ in order to shift some Tech and Assembly lines to PAC .. and yes are not US or Europe but PAF will not be fighting IAF over Indian Sky's its highly unlikely , the most PAF will have their mission to go in India for Surgical Strikes on specific targets which can also be done with a Stand-off Distance by Using long range Guided Bombs , CM .. for that part you wont be needing 5th Generations in hundreds until you have a Stable Economy , which i will see happening no less than 2025-2030

 

[bedbin]

Join us pakistani brothers. We need your help. and you need our 5th gen fighter to hunt indian jets

 

[T-123456]

I see no reason Turkey to put a Condition on PAF to buy high numbers like 100+ in order to shift some Tech and Assembly lines to PAC

There wont be such a condition but if needed,it will come from your side.

Don’t be angry, true friends will admire the other's selection,wish him the best

Why should i be angry,i think you confuse me with others?
Pakistan should do whats best for Pakistan.

 

[YeBeWarned]

There wont be such a condition but if needed,it will come from your side.

Lets hope there wont be any Condition .. but as Quwa mentioned , we wont be seeing the scale of investment like JF in any other project for upcoming decades , maybe PAC/PAF is waiting to see the Performance of Future thunder blocks ..
i wonder if PAC can utilize their experience of JF on TFX ?

 

[T-123456]

i wonder if PAC can utilize their experience of JF on TFX ?

I dont think so,as you know BAE systems(and Airbus) is chosen to assist with the design In addition, the SSM(Undersecretariat of Defence Industries) had invited Alenia Aermacchi, Saab and China’s CATIC to submit interest as potential partners on the development activity.

 

[YeBeWarned]

I dont think so,as you know BAE systems(and Airbus) is chosen to assist with the design In addition, the SSM had invited Alenia Aermacchi, Saab and China’s CATIC to submit interest as potential partners on the development activity.

Thanks , one more question ... What if PAF asked for a Modified Version ? and if PAF did some changes in Air frame of JF in block-4 or internal bay system , will their experience help them ?

 

[T-123456]

What if PAF asked for a Modified Version

When a customer(country) buys such a system,it can ask(if possible or needed) for modifications.
An example is the Israeli F35I https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Martin_F-35_Lightning_II_Israeli_procurement

and if PAF did some changes in Air frame of JF in block-4 or internal bay system , will their experience help them ?

I dont think so,Pakistan is like my country,still new at this.
BAE and the others have more experience.

 

[YeBeWarned]

When a customer(country) buys such a system,it can ask(if possible or needed) for modifications.
An example is the Israeli F35I

I dont think so,Pakistan is like my country,still new at this.
BAE and the others have more experience.

Thanks bro for staying with me after all those kind of silly questions .. just wanted to clear my mind on this subject

 

[T-123456]

Thanks bro for staying with me after all those kind of silly questions .. just wanted to clear my mind on this subject

There are no silly questions.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

I think P

But according to ACM Sohail Amman, PAF is investing heavily in the aviation city with an aim to prepare facilities and brain required for the next gen platform and this indicates even a deeper involvement at the very beginning of the program.

The two aren't mutually exclusive. For example, the PAF could be seeking to make a heavier investment in developing and producing radars, ECM/EW, seekers, etc - i.e. areas that are the most sensitive and difficult to procure.

This is what Israel does; it develops its own radar and ECM/EW tech, but then integrates its domestically developed solutions unto foreign platforms such as the F-16, F-15, and now F-35. Alternatively, ACM Sohail Aman also said "looking beyond 5th-generation", suggesting that the next big platform wouldn't be along the same lines as the FC-31 or TFX, but beyond that.

You would need at least 200(my guess),wouldnt it be better to have a production line like you have with the JF-17,think about the costs for that amount if bought off-the-shelf?

One would need hundreds of fighters in order to distribute the R&D costs such that the cost is only the labour and materials. Why would Pakistan do it alone (again) when it can actually just order 2-3 squadrons and help another, like Turkey, distribute the R&D load?

To put it another way. If Pakistan joins the TFX, it can help with reducing the cost of each TFX by adding more fighters to the launch order (e.g. divide the R&D cost of $10b across 250 Turkish and 50 Pakistani planes instead of just 200 Turkish planes).