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Pakistan to buy 40 SU-35 or Euro Fighter soon

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Don't know about EFT.:D
You guys can buy SU-35. India will not be happy with this and will try to sabotage the deal. We may have to give the F-16 or F-35 or any other US front line fighter jet to please the Russians.
 
Our Politicans hardly know anything about defence

Though SU-35 is good but I will prefer western over Russian....EFT then TFX.....What more you need? I seriously hope we buy EFT....imagine sensors, radars and missiles. :smitten:
 
Though SU-35 is good but I will prefer western over Russian....EFT then TFX.....What more you need? I seriously hope we buy EFT....imagine sensors, radars and missiles. :smitten:
Personally I have no idea which one is better I am justing posting the news which I know
 
Our Politicans hardly know anything about defence
but given the MODP Rana Tanveer record in past few year, he is going good and he has might get idea from india's rafale deal..
 
SAUDI DEFENSE MINISTER VISITS PAKISTAN ON SUNDAY

saudi-defense-minister-visits-pakistan-on-sunday-1472267802-8654.jpg


He will hold meetings with Pakistani leadership.

The Deputy Crown Prince and Defence Minister of Saudi Arabia, Mohammad bin Salman will arrive in Islamabad on Sunday, August 28.

He will hold meetings with the Pakistani leadership and discuss matters of bilateral relations and regional situation.

Prince Muhammad bin Salman will also discuss mutual cooperation in defence and security matters and fight against terrorism.

http://www.radio.gov.pk/27-Aug-2016/saudi-defense-minister-visits-pakistan-on-sunday



 
SAUDI DEFENSE MINISTER VISITS PAKISTAN ON SUNDAY

saudi-defense-minister-visits-pakistan-on-sunday-1472267802-8654.jpg


He will hold meetings with Pakistani leadership.

The Deputy Crown Prince and Defence Minister of Saudi Arabia, Mohammad bin Salman will arrive in Islamabad on Sunday, August 28.

He will hold meetings with the Pakistani leadership and discuss matters of bilateral relations and regional situation.

Prince Muhammad bin Salman will also discuss mutual cooperation in defence and security matters and fight against terrorism.

http://www.radio.gov.pk/27-Aug-2016/saudi-defense-minister-visits-pakistan-on-sunday


Those who think as Saudia is operating Euro Fighter therefore we would also buy EuroFighter than they are wrong because Saudia may simply provide the money. Also Saudia itself is buying weapons from Russia they are soon going to buy Iskander Missiles and news are of Saudis interest in Air Defence systems
 
Honestly zarvan chances are there and maybe we would but if we do buy any of these I mean if paf wants them they can get the money eg loans from gcc or China because we are not that happy with old uncle Sam now and go for su 35 and integrate it into our defence net work how ever if paf Willing this can work and supplement our 5 gs and retire or shift to western border f7 and mirage however right now we will have to wait and see as I still believe it's not a done deal

Those who think as Saudia is operating Euro Fighter therefore we would also buy EuroFighter than they are wrong because Saudia may simply provide the money. Also Saudia itself is buying weapons from Russia they are soon going to buy Iskander Missiles and news are of Saudis interest in Air Defence systems
There you go came while I was typing

Honestly zarvan chances are there and maybe we would but if we do buy any of these I mean if paf wants them they can get the money eg loans from gcc or China because we are not that happy with old uncle Sam now and go for su 35 and integrate it into our defence net work how ever if paf Willing this can work and supplement our 5 gs and retire or shift to western border f7 and mirage however right now we will have to wait and see as I still believe it's not a done deal


There you go came while I was typing
We could say that we will post a squadron in saudi Arabia for defense of the holy land etc and those rich guys might back and also send and armored brigade to Saudi they pay soldier more and relation improved and soldier salary improved win win
 
TAKE YOUR PICK

PAF wants a sophisticfated sign on the dotted line

40 su35 WILL CIOST $ $4.5 billion with weapons

40 Typhoons will coost $9 billion with weapons


OR OR ...... You could do a bargin and get

USED F16 block a/b FOR $500 million and upgrade THEM and SUGGEST they are now modern sophisticated fighters
 
@mike2000 is back @Blue Marlin @Zarvan @waz

few days ago, Minister of MODP said in interview that we will now pursue TOT and Offset agreements on every major defence deal..

40 EFT will costs around $10 billion than what will be the Offset of the this?
making the typhoon in Pakistan under licence and making perishable parts among the usual things pakistan usually does.
 
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Between the EF and Su35, my money would be on Su35.

Affordability
Even commonality (chinese are getting it)
Political and Strategic reasons
 
None of the fighters available today makes sense for PAF. India has way too much information about all these aircraft, F-16, Gripen, SH, EFT, Su-35, Mig-35. Even more so when it comes to the Su-35 since Indian technicians have studied the technologies in the jet in detail for the MKI upgrade program.

The only jet PAF can buy is the J-10. Pay more and get into the TFX instead.
why the j-10 and not the eft?
a lot of people say money is a problem, which indeed at $100+ million of the shelf is not cheap. which is why there is financing options. only a few people can go to an estate agents and pull out hard cash for a £1.5 million house. which is where mortgages come in.
i do see them needing it but they would be like nothing they have seen before. they will run rings around their block 52's.
which is people are trained to overcome such pitfalls. i would imagine them buying them about 36 as an intern solution till the 5th gen fighter is available. the tfx will be powered by a ej-2xx will be similar to the ej-200 which powers the typhoon which is a coincidence.
 
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Su-35 versus Typhoon: Analysis from RUSI’s Justin Bronk

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Outside the Western world, Russia’s ultra-agile Su-35 is the most potent fighter in operational service. We asked Justin Bronk from the Royal United Services Institute (RUSI) think-tank his thoughts on the Su-35’s combat effectiveness against the Typhoon, the backbone of NATO’s fighter force. We also look at how the Su-35 would fare against the US’ F-15, F-16 and F-22.

HK: What is the current status of the Russian Su-35 fleet?


JB:
Russia has 48 Su-35S in service with another 48 scheduled for production. They appear to offer a greater average serviceability rate than previous iterations of the Su-27/30 family, as well as the MiG-29, mainly due to the success of the new Saturn 117S thrust vectoring engines which have so far avoided many of the reliability issues of previous models. However, as with many other aspects of the Russian military, the fact that the production and service numbers of the Su-35 are quite low and exist within a huge mix of various MiG-29 and Su-27/30 derivations which do not share many key components means that running costs are high and logistics remain complex. This drives down serviceability to significantly below US, British and French fighter fleets, except in the case of small forward deployments such as Syria where the entire logistics chain can be concentrated on keeping a small portion of the force at high readiness.

How does it compare to Typhoon in terms of the following:

Detection/conspicuity to hostile sensors

The Su-35 has a significantly greater Radar Cross Section (RCS) than Typhoon due to its large intakes without effective fan-blade shielding, vertical dual stabilizers and thrust vectoring jet nozzles, as well as the latter’s greater use of radar absorbent materials and signature management for canards. The Su-35’s larger size and the canted position of the engines and greater thrust required also contribute to a heat signature that is significantly greater than Typhoon’s.

In terms of radars, the Su-35S’s Irbis-E PESA radar provides extremely high power levels allowing target detection beyond 300km (although without weapons which can engage at this range), as well as claimed advances in detecting low-observable threats such as stealth fighters at significantly beyond visual range. However, the downside to this is that the Irbis-E has to operate at extremely high power levels to achieve this performance and so is easily detectable and track-able at ranges beyond those at which it can track. All radars except AESAs with very low probabilities of intercept such as the F-22’s APG-77 suffer from this paradox but it is worse for the Su-35 because of the latter’s very large RCS and IR signature which means it must rely on out-ranging its opponents at BVR rather than trying to sneak up on them whilst relying on passive tracking.

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Copyright Eurofighter-L. Caliaro

Typhoon’s CAPTOR-M is comparable with the Irbis-E in terms of long range tracking and detection in active scanning mode and may be inferior with regard to detecting low-observable threats, but Typhoon has a very significant advantage in terms of passive tracking through the DASS and the world-leading PIRATE IRST.

Performance (at various altitudes, speeds and in both WVR and BVR)

Both aircraft are capable of super-cruising although the Typhoon’s speed without afterburners at combat loading is significantly higher than the Su-35*. Top speeds at low and high altitudes are comparable, but again Typhoon has the slight edge. In terms of kinematic persistence, the Su-35 burns much more more fuel to sustain energy than Typhoon, but also carries twice as much fully loaded. In prolonged engagements, the Typhoon has better combat persistence during sustained afterburner-dependent manoeuvres and also retains energy better at during high-g turns. This would tend to put the Su-35 at an increasing energy disadvantage over time, even as its thrust-to-weight ratio improves towards parity with Typhoon as it burns off fuel.

During a BVR engagement at high altitudes, assuming both aircraft have detected each other, the Su-35 is likely to be at a significant energy disadvantage as Typhoon would be flying at its higher service ceiling at faster supercruise speeds.

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WVR, however, the Su-35 is extremely dangerous due to its phenomenal supermanoeuvrability due to its thrust vectoring engines and huge lifting body. Both in the horizontal and vertical planes, Typhoon would likely be outmatched by the Su-35 WVR, unless a Typhoon pilot could find space to accelerate vertically to gain an energy advantage without being shot down in the process. In reality, of course, whilst in a WVR dogfight situation the Su-35 does have a kinematic advantage, both aircraft are equipped with helmet-mounted sights to cue off-boresight missile shots and carry extremely manoeuvrable IR missiles with excellent countermeasure resistance. Neither is likely to survive a WVR ‘merge’ against the other.

*HK: The Typhoon’s maximum quoted supercruise speed has varied. EADS test pilot Chris Worning put it at M1.15-M1.2, the RAF have stated M1.1 and Typhoon pilots have suggested 1.2-3 with four conformal AMRAAMS, twin tanks and twin ASRAAMs, and 1.5 clean. The Su-35’s supercruise is marginal, probably no higher than M1.1 – it is a much draggier design than the Typhoon.

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Maintenance/reliability/sortie rate

Su-35 is bigger, heavier and more mechanically temperamental than Typhoon. However, it does not have such a dependence on software and computers which can cause many issues of their own in the case of Typhoon. If deployed as part of a large unified fleet by a Western air force, Su-35 could probably approach Typhoon’s reliability rate and surpass it in terms of ease of maintenance. However, the fact that Su-35 exists within a patchily resourced Russian Air Force with a myriad of different fighter types means it comes substantially below Typhoon in terms of reliability.

Defensive aids/electronic warfare (EW) suite

Russian EW capabilities tend to be superb. However, their defensive aids suites often lag behind their Western competitors. In the case of Su-35 and Typhoon specifically, both have some of the best DAS and EW capabilities which their respective nations can mount in frontline jets, but the exact details are highly classified. It is probably fair to assume that Typhoon has the edge in terms of defensive aids and passive ELINT gathering, whilst Su-35 has the edge in offensive EW and jamming capabilities.

Man-machine interface/ ease of flying and fighting

This is an area where Russian jets have always struggled. Even with multifunction cockpit displays and digital flight instruments, the Su-35 lags behind Typhoon in terms of ease of flying and fighting with it as a weapons system.

Network connectivity

Lack of Russian Air Force standardisation means that Typhoon wins hands down with latest generation Link 16, MIDS and other connectivity advantages. However, Russian tactical doctrine may mean that this disadvantage is less of an issue for them than it would be for a Western Air Force.

Weapons

Su-35 benefits from superb Russian missile design expertise. The multiple seeker-head mix which Russian fighters would fire in missile salvos in combat with Western fighters makes defending against them a very complicated task. At long range, the Su-35 can fire a mix of semi-active radar homing, anti-radiation (home on jam) and IR homing missiles, whilst at short range the Adder series remains as deadly as ever. Typhoon has the excellent ASRAAM and IRIS-T short range IR missiles which can equal or surpass their Russian counterparts, but at long range the AMRAAM is showing its age and against Digital Radio Frequency Memory (DRFM) jamming technology which the Su-35S employs, it’s Pk drops significantly to the point that multiple missiles would likely be required to kill each target.

Which set-ups would favour which aircraft?

High and fast in BVR combat and rules of engagement which allow long range missile shots would favour Typhoon, especially once Meteor is fully integrated next year. WVR combat, especially at lower altitudes and speeds favour the Su-35. During a sudden incident as part of, say Baltic Air Policing, where both aircraft would typically be at medium altitude and at close range during QRA intercepts, Su-35S would likely be a real handful for Typhoon.

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Which aircraft, all things being equal, would have an advantage?

I would certainly still take a Typhoon going into a hypothetical ‘all things equal’ scenario, because of its superior kinematics at high altitudes and speeds which allow it to have control of an engagement except in specific scenarios.

Are there tactics which would enable a Su-35 force to take on a F-22 formation?

Simply put – no. Whilst the Su-35 does have the hypothetical capability to detect the F-22 at close ranges using its IRST and potentially the Irbis-E radar, both sensors would have to be cued to focus on exactly the right part of sky to have a chance of generating a target track. By contrast, the F-22 will know exactly where the Su-35 is at extremely long range and can position for complete control of the engagement from the outset with superior kinematics. The Su-35’s only chance would be to absorb the AMRAAM and AIM-9 shots from the F-22’s and hope that they had sufficient numbers left to attack the tankers and airbases which the F-22’s rely on post-engagement.

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How do the F-22 and Su-35 compare in terms of close-in agility/energy preservation/types of fighters (angles V energy)

The Su-35 can probably out-turn an F-22 in a horizontal fight at medium and low altitudes, but the need to carry missiles and tanks externally to be effective, as well as the brute size of the Sukhoi will ensure it remains at a distinct energy disadvantage to the Raptor in terms of energy retention and acceleration at all speeds. The F-22 also will not get into an angles fight with an Sukhoi – there is simply no need for it to do so.

How do they compare in terms of BVR engagements?

BVR engagements are all about situational awareness, positioning/energy advantage, and persistence in terms of fuel and missiles. In all but the latter category the Su-35 is hopelessly outclassed by the F-22 (as are all other operational fighter aircraft). Even in terms of missiles, the Su-35 can carry up to twelve to the F-22’s eight but combat practice, especially against stealthy targets, involves firing salvos of six missiles with mixed seekers so the Su-35 only really has two credible shots. By contrast the F-22 can get much closer without being threatened so even against the Su-35S DRFM jammers, it can fire smaller salvos with much better Pk.

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Britain’s Typhoons have intercepted Russian Su-27 approaching British airspace (pictured), and performed multiple exercises with Indian’s Su-30s. Far less is known in the West about the Su-35’s capabilities.

How would USAF F-15Cs and F-16Cs fair against the Su-35?


The USAF’s classic F-15C is slightly outclassed by the Su-35, although with upgrades along the lines of the Saudi F-15SA configuration, with a very powerful AN/APG-63(V)3 AESA radar and double the missile loadout of the classic F-15C, they are approaching parity again – albeit with a much heavier focus on BVR capabilities than WVR manoeuvrability than the Sukhoi. The F-15C (modernised), teamed with the F-22 fleet, can certainly remain a match for the Su-35S.

By contrast, the F-16 Block 50/52 fleet is certainly not capable of meeting the Su-35S on anything like equal terms – losing out to the Russian fighter in kinematics, sensors, weapons loadout and EW capabilities.

And against the Saab Gripen and Dassault Rafale?

Gripen is a bit of an unknown quantity against modern air superiority machines because it takes a fundamentally different approach to survivability. Whilst in traditional DACT exercises, Typhoon pilots have often referred to the Gripen as ‘cannon-fodder’ due to its inferior thrust-to-weight ratio, speed, agility and armament, in the few cases where the Gripen has ‘come to play’ with its full electronic warfare capabilities, it has given Typhoons very nasty shocks. Against the Su-35S, Gripen would rely on the cutting edge EW capabilities which Saab builds the Gripen (especially the new E/F) around to hide the aircraft from the sensors of the Russian jets in much the same way as the Raptor relies on x-band stealth. These EW capabilities are so highly classified that there is simply no way to assess their effectiveness in the public domain. Having said that, RAF pilots who I have talked to with experience of the Saab fighter’s EW teeth first hand say that the ability of the aircraft to get alarmingly close without detection thanks entirely to EW is very impressive.

Rafale is in a similar position as Typhoon relative to Su-35, but with less of a kinematic advantage over the Su-35 at high altitudes and BVR ranges, and being closer to parity on manoeuvrability at medium and low altitudes than Typhoon. Equally, the excellent SPECTRA system on Rafale would give it more offensive and defensive options in the EW space against Su-35 than Typhoon would have.

What do you expect the future holds for the Su-35, in terms of upgrades and production figures?

I expect that following the second order of 48 being delivered to the Russian Air Force by 2020, further orders will come in in dribs and drabs whilst the PAK FA/T-50 continues to be refined. Upgrades here and there will no doubt be added but I don’t anticipate any fundamental improvements – the Su-35S really is the pinnacle of the Flanker line.

What should I have asked you about the Su-35?

Haha, is it good value for money? Not withstanding what I’ve said about the various ways in which top-of-the-line and extremely expensive Western fighters such as the F-22, Typhoon (and Rafale which we haven’t really touched on) have answers to the Su-35, for its price tag of around $65M very little comes close!

Justin Bronk is a Research Fellow at the Military Sciences at Royal United Services Institute. He has written articles on the RAF’s role in Syria, and the Rafale versus Typhoon.

Follow him on Twitter: @Justin_Br0nk

https://hushkit.net/2016/03/17/su-35-versus-typhoon-analysis-from-rusis-justin-bronk/

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I vote EFT, just sell our f-sola's and buy the EFT from a country we get along with like Italy. Get 2 squadrons and then expand that to 4 later on and eventually 6. After that we can get the TFX as our 5th gen platform. These will last us till 2040-2050
The JF-17 can continue bombing the TTP and other militants and make up our airforce in the quantitive sector.
EFT + TFX = death to Indian air superiority.
 
None of the fighters available today makes sense for PAF. India has way too much information about all these aircraft, F-16, Gripen, SH, EFT, Su-35, Mig-35. Even more so when it comes to the Su-35 since Indian technicians have studied the technologies in the jet in detail for the MKI upgrade program.

The only jet PAF can buy is the J-10. Pay more and get into the TFX instead.

What?o_O Pakistan has information on the flankers, does it stop you from buying them? Oh man....

@mike2000 is back @Blue Marlin @Zarvan @waz

few days ago, Minister of MODP said in interview that we will now pursue TOT and Offset agreements on every major defence deal..

40 EFT will costs around $10 billion than what will be the Offset of the this?

I honestly don't know bro.
 
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