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Pakistan threatens to withdraw troops from Pak-Afghan border

Didn't get your logic. Care to elaborate?

Yes i certainly think that we should eradicate these terrorists that we once created as they are existential threat to us and it is our moral duty now as well. No ifs and buts in this case.

nice logic...someone produces terrorists who kill innocent people and then eradicates them....Captain America the producer still deserves to live....nice moral duty of making terrorists and then eliminating them:lol:
 
The U.S. has compiled a wide body of intelligence on the locations of militant training camps in Pakistan, but has been unable to persuade Islamabad to shut them down, current and former officials say.

A former senior administration official said the biggest concern is a network of camps in North Waziristan from which the Taliban and al Qaeda-linked groups train and recruit fighters, as well as build improvised explosive devices (IEDs).

Some of the camps are associated with the Haqqani Network, an insurgent group that carries out attacks on NATO troops from its hide-outs in North Waziristan and which is widely believed to have links to Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) agency.

Persuading Pakistan to crack down in North Waziristan is taking on added importance. NATO plans in coming months to step up its counterinsurgency operations in Afghanistan’s Regional Command East — or RC-East, as it is called — after ridding the southern region around Kandahar of many Taliban safe havens.

The new war in the east could be hamstrung if the Taliban and al Qaeda-linked terrorist groups are allowed to simply cross back into North Waziristan’s safe havens.

“We have had broad conversations with Pakistan about North Waziristan and the reasons for intervention,” the former official said. “There have been wide-ranging discussions about extremist groups in Pakistan and what should be done about them. Training capabilities of these groups have been part of the conversation.”

It has not been an easy conversation, as reflected in the recent U.S. decision to withhold $800 million in military aid for Pakistan — a tangible sign of Washington’s frustration over Islamabad’s lack of progress in North Waziristan, among other concerns.

A White House spokesman declined to comment to The Washington Times when asked whether the U.S. had provided Pakistan with its intelligence on training camps.

The dilemma is that information that U.S. forces share with their Pakistani counterparts can find its way to the militants, who then change their tactics or locations, the former official said.

News reports last month said the U.S. provided Pakistan with information on bomb-making plants, only to see the sites evacuated afterward.

Pakistan does not allow NATO ground troops to cross into its territory to attack insurgents. The killing of Osama bin Laden in a Pakistani garrison town on May 2 by Navy SEALs was conducted without Islamabad’s prior approval.

The U.S. is limited to CIA-directed drone strikes on individual compounds in an effort to kill militant leaders.

Rep. Duncan Hunter, California Republican, told The Times that the situation may come to a point where the Obama administration has no choice other than to launch attacks into Pakistan. He declined to specify the types of attacks.

“These are established, vetted safe havens that operate in Pakistan,” Mr. Hunter said. “They rest up, then they come back across with materiel and supplies and new guys to attack our troops. We know where these guys are down to a [small area on a map].”

The likelihood that the Obama administration would launch attacks into Pakistan is questionable, considering the drawdown of U.S. troops in Iraq and Afghanistan, as well as Pakistan’s nuclear arsenal. Yet the administration has stepped up drone attacks in Pakistan’s northern tribal areas and did approve the bin Laden raid without Islamabad’s prior knowledge.
Mr. Hunter, who just returned from a fact-finding trip to Afghanistan, added: “I think what has to be done, we have to deny the terrorists safe haven. We have to let Pakistan know we have to go after targets that are so embarrassing to them and so obvious to the world community [that] when Pakistan cries ‘foul,’ everybody just kind of laughs at it and shrugs it off and says, ‘Good job, America.’ And those targets are available. The super downside to that is, you widen the war.”

In a teleconference from Afghanistan last week, Army Gen. David Rodriguez, the deputy U.S. commander, told Pentagon reporters that Pakistan’s military “needs to do more.”

“What we really need is less of the IEDs and the homemade explosives across that border, as well as some of the bomb-makers and leadership that moves across that border,” Gen. Rodriguez said. “And those are the types of support and help that we continue to work with our ‘Pak’ mil partners to help us with.

“We’ve seen that in selected areas, but again, not as much as we would like. And we all think and know that they need to do more. That’s what we work with them on every day to do. … We need more support and help from the Pakistani military,” Gen. Rodriguez said.

“We continue to coordinate and build the relationships so that we can better synchronize our plans across that border.”

The former senior administration official said Pakistan has told U.S. diplomats that its military is stretched too thinly to open another theater of war in North Waziristan. The government also fears a backlash from Islamic militants.
But Rep. Mike Rogers, chairman of the House Permanent Select Intelligence Committee, said Pakistan’s army and its powerful ISI continue to play both sides in the U.S. war on terrorism.

“We’re going to have to continue to work with them,” the Michigan Republican said on CBS’ “Face the Nation.” “They do help us in some ways. But this is incredibly concerning when they continue to have these problems with helping bad guys.”
Pakistan hesitates to eradicate U.S.-mapped militant camps - Washington Times
 
lets see here....if you guys remove the troops,then the terrorists will be in Pakistan.....so you guys are threatening to bring a death wish to yourself?...its like placing a knife on your own throats and threatening to commit sucide.....

this if happens will affect US in the short term but in the long term?you guys never thing for long term goals....

---------- Post added at 06:19 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:19 AM ----------

lets see here....if you guys remove the troops,then the terrorists will be in Pakistan.....so you guys are threatening to bring a death wish to yourself?...its like placing a knife on your own throats and threatening to commit sucide.....

this if happens will affect US in the short term but in the long term?you guys never thing for long term goals....
 
Taimi! I will give value to your opinion over mine any day but i think you are assuming here too much. US will never leave Afghanistan. They may reduce their presence but they will never leave. They haven't invested so much to leave.

You say that Afghan Taliban will not take revenge from us for abandoning them because they will be too busy then in Afghanistan. Well they don't need to directly involve in Pakistan to harm us. They will take this work form TTP, their Pakistani counterpart and who knows perhaps they are already indirectly helping TTP.

We can very easily take on TTP, we did that in Swat, we did that in SWA. SWA operation was itself a miracle, as per my sources PA was ready and expecting hundreds of casualties, but the end figure was surprising looking at the objectives achieved. As said PA has become very efficient in doing such operations, they have learned a lot. A little more gadgets and weapon platforms will make them more deadly.

TTP can not take on the army, thus if TTP is alone, we can destroy them.

Yeah Afghan Taliban has been helping them but not as an official policy, rather on the lower commander level, and the Afghan Taliban are also fed of them, they want an end to them also, as their objectives are not the same and TTP is creating trouble for them. Killing of Col Imam and attacks on army convoys in the NWA are an example of the acts by TTP which are not liked by the Afghan Taliban.

So as said, even if Americans stay with some troops, Taliban would still be busy and we can be left in peace. TTP is no match for us.
 
lets see here....if you guys remove the troops,then the terrorists will be in Pakistan.....so you guys are threatening to bring a death wish to yourself?...its like placing a knife on your own throats and threatening to commit sucide.....

this if happens will affect US in the short term but in the long term?you guys never thing for long term goals.....

Indians seriously need to first understand what is being talked about and what the situation on the ground is and what the army is saying.

Even if PA leaves the tribal area, there would still be a forces of 60-70K Frontier Corps.

But PA is not leaving, it will be there where there are militants fighting against Pakistan, yeah where there is no need of them to stay, they will go from there.
 
Pakistan threatens to withdraw troops from Pak-Afghan border

The next step would be that the government or the armed forces will remove the forces from the border areas
That's exactly what the Americans want, don't they? They'll then have a free lunch across the Pakistani border and have no resistance whilst pursuing the Taliban into Pakistan!

The understanding was that the drones would fly from Shamsi base but only for logistics purposes
Drones for LOGISTICS purposes? Now what does that mean? Drones don't do any logistics. They're either for aerial recce or for combat purposes.
they were not supposed to be carrying guns
Combat drones don't carry any 'guns'! They carry missiles! :P

Why can't these politicians and spokesmen use correct terminology? They sound like illiterate villagers.
 
Ahmad Mukhtar is an Idiot and the statement is politically motivated linked to his own party's uneasiness over aid.

Gen Kiyani/Army already much before asked the govt to divert all military aid towards civilian projects. Yesterday in corps commanders conference the army cheif vowed to continue war on terror against terrorists killing Pakistanis, with own resources.
 
TheJewverine..live with the consequences accompanied by the instability of your country

As far as we know the most unstable part of the world also is a region where israeli, Palestine, Egypt Lebanon, Syria are.

Day in night out you people also have to live with the greater consequences of your doing accompanied with the greater instability of the Region rather then nation.

History repeats not a single nation on the face of earth has even been forever under siege and always has been liberated even your partner US was liberated whom British ruled.



he is a shy Indian with Israeli flag
dont feed him he is just a troll and will die soon.

the discussion is getting off topic. the subject is that Pakistani forces are stopping their operation for the Americans as Americans are withholding the funds they agreed together for that job (for whatever reasons is besides the point)
both parties have their point of view.

now this troll comes in pointing out the failure of the air defence on the west side of Pakistan despite me telling him that the western border doesn’t have full air defence coverage due to non existence air threat in that part of the country, but no.. the kid wants to flame and troll so I let him be after he confirmed his intent in this forum with his on going posts. and so should you and everyone just ignore him and he will die out of starvation.

American stealth choppers sneaking into Abbotabad was not a security failure but a lapse in our air surveillance, had there been radars, air patrols and mobile observers and still those choppers had made it that far then yes that would have been termed as a failure. This troll also conveniently manages to forget the tweets and other blogs of the people in the area who were saying that the Pakistan army had surrounded the perimeter the moment the operation started well before the crash landing of the copter, and they were told to stand down.

There are two best things that came out of this episode, a world terrorist was killed and our “ally” pointed out the gaps in our air defences on the western side so if someone not so “ally” tries to imitate America will have a rude reception waiting.

Again, all above is irrelevant and off topic to this post. Americans need the Pakistani forces for the Afghan Taliban because the boots on the ground provide what the air based surveillance cant do. But as it happens, there are disagreements, complaints, claims and counter claims which shouldn’t be surprising as it s a war with regional and global implications and have far reaching impact on the countries directly affected by this WoT.
 
Indians seriously need to first understand what is being talked about and what the situation on the ground is and what the army is saying.

Even if PA leaves the tribal area, there would still be a forces of 60-70K Frontier Corps.

But PA is not leaving, it will be there where there are militants fighting against Pakistan, yeah where there is no need of them to stay, they will go from there.

Leave North and South Waziristan and put all troops in Dir, Mohmanad agency bordering Afghanistan to kick all those TTP terrorists backed by enemies of Pakistan across Afghanistan
 
Someone didn't do well in 8th grade arithmetic.

If the Taliban now can roam freely in the northern parts of Pakistan; in parts of southern Afghanistan with the combined new Afghan national army, the NATO forces and the Frontier Corp and other PA personnel on the Pakistan side of the Afghan border, then how do fewer not more troops if NATO was gone do the job more troops are just now starting to succeed in doing?

Goofy math and pro-terrorist wishful thinking.
 
and of course since the Pakistan armed forces engender zero confidence in all, supposed allies and her own populations included,
How do you reconcile that with the 78% approval rating the Pakistani Military enjoys in Pakistan? IIRC, that is higher that the approval ratings for the Judiciary, media, Nawaz Sharif and Imran Khan.

Even kayani is still polling in the high fifties.
 
sir there were no incursions before 9/11 and this was the safest border on entire globe even without formal policing....did our military installations got attacked before 9/11?this only started once musharaf who was dictator just to secure his future in the form of exile brought dick cheney's war to our country..why did we made american enemies our enemies?will america make Pakistan's enemy india its enemy?taleban were are best allies.
did taleban brought down buildings in Pakistan?did taleban had anything to do with 9/11?
It was united states airforce that turned its radars off deliberately for 10 minutes to allow the second and third plane to hit the second tower and pentagon respectively.what had 40,000 Pakistanis who have died so far had to do with 9/11?we could have liberated Kashmir with such number of sacrifice.
Any anti Pakistani element whether it be indian raw or israeli mossad(brain child of ben Gurion israeli father of occupation who labelled Pakistan as the biggest threat in 1948)who blow stuff in our country and kill our civilians and soldiers gets branded as a taleban....even petty smuggler like mangal bagh became a taleban...what the hell:disagree:


we should work Quiad e Azam's strategy....FC and tribal connections should be further strengthened and first step should be blocking nato supplies line.....if america wants a war then so be it...if vietnamese farmers can kick their arses then so can nuclear Pakistan....we have a lot options....we can provide nuclear arms like 5 bombs to cuba,5 to venezula,,5 to iran....5 to syria....we can give a serious fight and options are unlimited since we can fire babur cruise missile from a submarine too.
we have 1 million Pakistanis in U.k they will initiate riots...
American public isnt interested in more body bags and with no gold to backup american dollar bill it will succumb

Bhai
I owe you a reply . Please nbear with me for a day or two. I am really busty .
WaSalam
Araz
 
Bro as Old Chinese Saying goes "Every Conflict is an Opportunity" Yes wolves are coming together against Pakistan. But Pakistan is not week and they know it. Its a psychological war un fortunately our media is not playing its part but by grace of Allah you can feel in preception change in Masses. 10 years back our thinking pattern was different from todays. Now no Mullah, Politican or leader is sacred Goat. every one has been exposed.
people are realizing things and now are more informed and balanced

US bulling is benifiting us as with every santion every insult our Mental freedom comes near.
I am very Positive. InshaAllah in 5 years we will be free people. The more they Push us the more realization we Get and more thirst for independence and self reliance we feel

Pakistan will Prevail... in Oven of present set up a new Pakistan is taking birth

Bill
My problem is that the bulls are coming together against Pakistan due to the wrong policies of its own government and administration. I wish and hope that you are right, but my own personal thinking is that the next front is going to be against PAkistan. We have by canoodling with the US merely delayed the inevitable.
I have a notion which may or may not be true but i think the OBL episode was not so much the fact that OBL was allegedly "killed " but that it was "allowed" to happen in PAkistan. Like it or not the PA elements were involved in this, but perhaps were duped into believing that this was some small fry and not the grand PUBAH himself.
If you continue the same logic down the line the game unfolds in a fairly predictable way and you can easily see the little cloggs at the back turning away. By running to China , you have merely tried to bolt the door after the horse has run off. My own personal thinking was this interaction and contingency should have been foreseen an circumvented much earlier to avoid this embarrasment now. As a a result of this 2 of our borders instead of one are unsafe now(perhaps even 3 as we have no rapport with the iranians as well). Iwill not go into the baluch unrest here and its ramifications.
If you can follow my drift , it seems that the pundits have not guaged the game plan well in advance and have been caught sleeping. In the long run I dont think it wil Do Pakistan any more harm than it already has done( we are rock bottom already) but a national awakening would be the most desirable thing and would do Pakistan a world of good. pakistan and its people need to start believing in themselves and need to get things moving in the right direction under their own steam. Any help from our esteemed friends should be gracefully accepted but always thought of as a momentary nudge in the right direction rather than a lean-to on a permanent basis.
I am sorry to be a bit cryptic but I hope you get the gist.
Araz
 
“We have had broad conversations with Pakistan about North Waziristan and the reasons for intervention,” the former official said. “There have been wide-ranging discussions about extremist groups in Pakistan and what should be done about them. Training capabilities of these groups have been part of the conversation.”
My assumption is that these "groups" are the troops Pakistan intends to rape Afghanistan with (and Pakistan, in case of civil war) once NATO is gone and that's why Pakistan won't get rid of them now. Because Pakistan has simply run out of other excuses for inaction.
 
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