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Pakistan termed biggest stakeholder in post-2014 Afghanistan

So, help me understand.. This statement has been issued by Pakistan?? So whats new?? They have been beating this drum since last 20 years or so.. Earlier it was called strategic depth.. Now the word smithing is a little better.. But bound to fail as before..
 
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Eventually it will be a full circle after departure of NATO/ISAF
Pakistan will be pulling all the strings in Afghanistan as it used to...

Lets play a little game with this comment and see what you think of it.


Eventually it will be a full circle and soon the US will be pulling all the strings in Pakistan as it used to....

See any thing wrong with that statement now?

Yes Pakistan is the biggest stake holder in post 2014 Afghanistan, they have to live with it. The US will be mostly home more worried more about the latest soap/football game/Kardasian sister than what is going on in Afghanistan.
What will Pakistan have a neighbour in a slow burn civil war where both sides hate Pakistan, more refugees streaming across the border and terrorist groups both side of the Duran line who no longer have Americans to blow up looking for other targets.

Two years and counting not much time to turn things around perhaps time for Pakistan to say to Afghanistan, friend how can we help rather than great the yanks are gone now your our *****.
 
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Two years and counting not much time to turn things around perhaps time for Pakistan to say to Afghanistan, friend how can we help rather than great the yanks are gone now your our *****.

We won't be able to "help" them until:

1.They recognize the border between Pakistan and afghanistan (which means they have to stop claiming our territory)

2. Stop supporting groups like BLA and TTP and giving them safe havens
 
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We won't be able to "help" them until:

1.They recognize the border between Pakistan and afghanistan (which means they have to stop claiming our territory)

2. Stop supporting groups like BLA and TTP and giving them safe havens

Its not 1989 when Afghanistan was helpless and Pakistanis used and abused the situation. Afghanistan has a stronger army, intelligence service and the support of big powers. They have also learnt to play your game pretty well. From what I see, for every Haqqani attack in Afghanistan, there are 3 TTP, BLA attacks in Pakistan. Good luck dealing with them!
 
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Its not 1989 when Afghanistan was helpless and Pakistanis used and abused the situation. Afghanistan has a stronger army, intelligence service and the support of big powers. They have also learnt to play your game pretty well. From what I see, for every Haqqani attack in Afghanistan, there are 3 TTP, BLA attacks in Pakistan. Good luck dealing with them!

I'm too lazy to go around search for it, but NATO has said a lot of harsh and unflattering things about the "professional" ANA. Plus even before the soviets invaded them, we were able to beat their army with out tribesman (our army didn't even need to do anything)

As for their "intelligence agencies " they are the same ones that accused Pakistan of poisoning little girls when it turned out to be mass hysteria by afghans themselves.
 
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indians member asusual get burnt... Denial? arrogance? Self pride? Anything else?
 
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I agree, kick all Aghanis out of Pakistan and this low life Afghan government take ownership of their own problem. Pakistan is not responsible of these Afghanis, so Karzai needs to take his citizens back. They don't belong here and they should not be our problem.
 
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Pakistan simply cannot be made the biggest stake holder in Afghanistan. Pakistan can be never that Positive influence on Afghan society at the moment or in foreseeable future. This is at best a rant and it's not Politically motivated. I am just trying to see what's best for the Afghanistan in coming decade outside of India perspective.

1. The only thing the connects Pakistan to Afghan's journey through the Progress is the geography. Afghanistan is Landlocked and A large chuck of what it considers its own territory historically is under Pakistani control(KPK Province). With this comes across the Duran line, Pakistani influence on Afghanistan and it's society in the FUTURE.

2. Pakistan can NOT support Afghanistan Economically, Technologically or help in developing its Human Resources.

3. There's historic animosity between Kabul and Islamabad and Pakistan tried to have influence in Afghanistan without regard to the method it employed for the same and used Afghan "Human Resources" for it's endeavours in the region with respect to India(Kashmir). It's known fact. This wasn't exactly maximising the welfare and well being of Afghanistan in the long run.

4. Pakistan is either incapable or unwilling to deal with Jihadi complex in Pakistan, which will NOT be a Positive thing to Afghanistan in its reconstruction given geography, Porus border and raising tide of unemployed Youth in Pakistan.

1. No ****? You think countries are bordered by air? We basicaly countries Afghanistan's future, and our Pushtuns do also.

2. We already are giving Afghanistan millions of dollars.

3. You know history? A couple of American Afghanis don't cut it. Most Afghanis are pro-Pakistanis. If they weren't they'd go to Iran NOT Pakistan for refugee status.

4. Hehe, Afghanistan is the one who brought Jihadi violence here.

Are you kidding me? We'll ask Afghanis to resect the Durand line? Our Pushtuns always take care of them when they do, though.
 
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Only Afghans are stake holder of Afghanistan..that too 100%

So lets get some facts sorted out first.

1. Pakistan has at least 2.5 million registered Afghan refugees. In addition there are more unregistered Afghans in the country.
2. That is about 15% of Afghanistan
3. They have been in Pakistan since at least before 1979 when Soviet Russians invaded Afghanistan.
4. That would be like India being burdened by nearly 17 million Bengali refugees.

Do you know what sort of burden that is on our economy, as scarce jobs are taken by refugees prepared to work for less as well as organized crime, security risk, guns etc? Many are now second generation and have got Pakistani ID cards etc.

Now let us look at the "stakeholder principle". All it took was a few million Bengali refugees in India in 1971 and apparently that justified India's outright invasion of a sovereign country and now you guy's have the bloody galls of complaining about us when we carry a burden 10 times more than you ever did. Quote from Wiki.

"The governments of West Bengal, Bihar, Assam, Meghalaya and Tripura established refugee camps along the border. The resulting flood of impoverished East Pakistani refugees placed an intolerable strain on India's already overburdened economy".[37]

Even the Pashtuns of K-P province want the Afghans out. Does that tell you about the burden on Pakistan. Imagine if India ended up with 17 million Bengali's in your country by next year. I can imagine what you guy's would do - As it is a few Bengali's who get across your border pass the BSF cause a ruckus.

Return of illegal Afghan refugees: Kabul not ready yet | DAWN.COM

You don't see us complaining to Kabul about not taking their own citizens back. While we host almost 15% of Afghanistan Kabul complains about us. I think that 15% of Afghanistan sat in our country does give us justification to be involved in the future of that country, after all we could end up with more if things go wrong.

And finally we have 35 million Pashtuns in Pakistan who also happen to be the largest community in multi ethnic Afghanistan. That is another reason why we are tied by a umbellical cord whether we like it or not.

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As stated above ever heard the saying "vote with your feet"? Any sh*t happens and the Afghans run abroad. They have choice between going to any of their neighbours, Pakistan, Iran, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan. Guess where most run for refuge? PAKISTAN.

Does that tell you what ordinary Afghans think? If we are so bad why do they make a beeline to Pakistan?
 
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It will be a Historic error of Judgement. Pakistan simply cannot be made the biggest stake holder in Afghanistan. Pakistan can be never that Positive influence on Afghan society at the moment or in foreseeable future. This is at best a rant and it's not Politically motivated. I am just trying to see what's best for the Afghanistan in coming decade outside of India perspective.

It does not matter what some country tries to do, we are all humbled by resources and in the same way Pakistan is the biggest stakeholder in Afghanistan as in restriction of physical locations (neighbours). Especially when Afghanistan is dependent on Pakistan for almost all her trade.



1. The only thing the connects Pakistan to Afghan's journey through the Progress is the geography. Afghanistan is Landlocked and A large chuck of what it considers its own territory historically is under Pakistani control(KPK Province). With this comes across the Duran line, Pakistani influence on Afghanistan and it's society in the FUTURE.

Just as I said above, geography is indeed the most crucial link. However, it is not the only link as there is decades of heritage and culture that is shared by Pashtuns/Uzbeks etc. both sides of the border. Durand line was the declared cut off point agreed to by both sides as each side lay claim to land on the other side.



2. Pakistan can NOT support Afghanistan Economically, Technologically or help in developing its Human Resources.

Pakistan has been supporting Afghanistan economically for the past 40 years, we have been providing them financial support in trade, free transit for their trade to the rest of the world, sheltering their refugees and have even participated in defence of Afghanistan against an invading super power.

Furthermore, we have trained engineers, doctors and other professionals from Afghanistan over many decades. Most of the educated and/or skilled Afghans can thank Pakistan for their skills. We have been at the forefront in developing their human skills for more years then I can count. We had even offered to train their military. Our part in future of Afghanistan would be more then your imagination.



3. There's historic animosity between Kabul and Islamabad and Pakistan tried to have influence in Afghanistan without regard to the method it employed for the same and used Afghan "Human Resources" for it's endeavours in the region with respect to India(Kashmir). It's known fact. This wasn't exactly maximising the welfare and well being of Afghanistan in the long run.

Historic animosity b/w Kabul & Islamabad is a joke....when has Kabul ever really held power in Afghanistan, except when under the rule of Talibaan? We have influence over Afghans so we do not really care about a puppet regime now or in the near future because long term Afghanistan will be an Ally.

Writing like a true ignorant, did you even read up on Afghan history? It was Pakistan that helped bring 80% of Afghanistan under Talibaan rule, united by popular demand. Previously they were pockets of militia controlling individual areas and fighting like animals.



4. Pakistan is either incapable or unwilling to deal with Jihadi complex in Pakistan, which will NOT be a Positive thing to Afghanistan in its reconstruction given geography, Porus border and raising tide of unemployed Youth in Pakistan.

Jihad is one of the basic tenets of faith in Islam, it is highly encouraged. As I said, you write like a complete ignorant.



Ideally, Afghanistan needs isolation from Pakistan for at least a decade and needs to come up with a deal with respect to open Durand Line which has repercussions on the security of Afghanistan. Only relationship should be the Trade routes from Pakistan.

Afghanistan was an ideal place pre invasion by the second super power. We will ensure that it becomes a peaceful country once more, it's only a matter of time.

Please sombody tell me, is it first of April today?:lol:

Nope its not :), However, April 1st 2014 will bring a nice big surprise for India......be prepared.

you have been paid for that by USA

Not really. What the US and international community pledged and what we got are 2 massively different realities. We were offered complete security of financial support throughout rebuilding of Afghanistan post withdrawal of USSR especially for the 5+ million refugees. We were abandoned as soon as the Soviet Union withdrew and so was Afghanistan by the international community.

But we could not abandon Afghanistan, even if we wanted to because of the commitment that we were already in and because of physical location. We did the best we could given our own meagre resources and volatile political situations thereafter.

It is quite stupid to disregard the efforts undertaken by Pakistan and the people of Pakistan for Afghanistan. We were supported only by peanuts by the international community yet we never abandoned Afghanistan, never!
 
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Only Afghans are stake holder of Afghanistan..that too 100%

Only if Afghans promise not to sell that stake to enemies of Pakistan. If you 51% stake in Afghanistan is held by Pakistan's enemies then we have the right to be 51% enemies.
 
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Its not 1989 when Afghanistan was helpless and Pakistanis used and abused the situation. Afghanistan has a stronger army, intelligence service and the support of big powers. They have also learnt to play your game pretty well. From what I see, for every Haqqani attack in Afghanistan, there are 3 TTP, BLA attacks in Pakistan. Good luck dealing with them!

That might be so, but it is because of major powers currently operating in Afghanistan such as the US, India, Israel who are united against Pakistan. Do you realize what the Haqqanis will focus on once there is no more US/NATO? One thing is certain, Indian operatives will be coming home to India in.....well not in good conditions.
 
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^^^

One of the rare occasions when I almost find myself in concord with Mav3rick - Although I suspect my understanding of Jihad might be differant.
 
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It will be a Historic error of Judgement. Pakistan simply cannot be made the biggest stake holder in Afghanistan. Pakistan can be never that Positive influence on Afghan society at the moment or in foreseeable future. This is at best a rant and it's not Politically motivated. I am just trying to see what's best for the Afghanistan in coming decade outside of India perspective.

1. The only thing the connects Pakistan to Afghan's journey through the Progress is the geography. Afghanistan is Landlocked and A large chuck of what it considers its own territory historically is under Pakistani control(KPK Province). With this comes across the Duran line, Pakistani influence on Afghanistan and it's society in the FUTURE.

2. Pakistan can NOT support Afghanistan Economically, Technologically or help in developing its Human Resources.

3. There's historic animosity between Kabul and Islamabad and Pakistan tried to have influence in Afghanistan without regard to the method it employed for the same and used Afghan "Human Resources" for it's endeavours in the region with respect to India(Kashmir). It's known fact. This wasn't exactly maximising the welfare and well being of Afghanistan in the long run.

4. Pakistan is either incapable or unwilling to deal with Jihadi complex in Pakistan, which will NOT be a Positive thing to Afghanistan in its reconstruction given geography, Porus border and raising tide of unemployed Youth in Pakistan.

Ideally, Afghanistan needs isolation from Pakistan for at least a decade and needs to come up with a deal with respect to open Durand Line which has repercussions on the security of Afghanistan. Only relationship should be the Trade routes from Pakistan.

Afghanistan Hamara hay
and indians need not worry about it, doesnt concern them
 
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