Pakistan studies or Pakistan brainwashing?

[fisher1]

I just came across this thread by Zaki and it was a really enlightening moment because i realised i don't know anything about our founding fathers - Jinnah and Liaqat Ali Khan and i have been brainwashed.

I have studied Pakistan studies book in school then college then university and i can tell you choda nukat of Quad e Azam but i can't tell what Jinnah did after Pakistan was made. It's a mystery, i thought he just died soon as Pakistan was made lol. I didn't even know Liaquat Ali Khan was a founding father but i knew he was assassinated.

This is a problem. It seems like there's just a brainwashing going on in Pakistan studies books with selective information in it. Jinnah, Jinnah, Jinnah before Pakistan is made, as soon as Pakistan is made, no Jinnah? In fact, i know exactly what the struggles for Pakistan before partition happened are because it's shoved down my brain so much but after Pakistan made, nothing. Then there's talks about dams, constitution, 65 war, 71 war is briefly mentioned without much details. I didn't even know what objective resolution was or that Pakistan had communists or the struggles Pakistan had immediately after it was made. I learned that it was happily after soon as British left which is a gigantic lie.

Anyway, the reason i made this thread is...is there any "unbiased" place where i can learn more about Jinnah and our founding fathers?

For example, it was shocking to me to learn that Jinnah wanted to fight India over Kashmir and gave an order to send troops to Kashmir. That man had balls and courage, salute! And Pakistan was nothing back then compared to India. I thought Jinnah was a pacifist like Imran Khan because PTI has been circulating Jinnah blessing Imran Khan picture when IK said he was a pacifist.

What were Jinnah views on democracy? What was his governance like? What did he think of America? Soviets? What was his character like? Did he constantly whine and complain how British and Indians have wronged him with partition or was he a man of actions? Did he take loans?

Why is Jinnah life after partition made such a secret? Why aren't we taught more about Jinnah after Pakistan was made. Shouldn't we know what the man who struggled for Pakistan and is called Baba e Qom thought about style of governments, governance, foreign policy, loans, Kashmir, use of military intervention etc etc.

 

[Death Professor]

Good book to start...

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/73902.The_Sole_Spokesman

 

[The Accountant]

I just came across this thread by Zaki and it was a really enlightening moment because i realised i don't know anything about our founding fathers - Jinnah and Liaqat Ali Khan and i have been brainwashed.

I have studied Pakistan studies book in school then college then university and i can tell you choda nukat of Quad e Azam but i can't tell what Jinnah did after Pakistan was made. It's a mystery, i thought he just died soon as Pakistan was made lol. I didn't even know Liaquat Ali Khan was a founding father but i knew he was assassinated.

This is a problem. It seems like there's just a brainwashing going on in Pakistan studies books with selective information in it. Jinnah, Jinnah, Jinnah before Pakistan is made, as soon as Pakistan is made, no Jinnah? In fact, i know exactly what the struggles for Pakistan before partition happened are because it's shoved down my brain so much but after Pakistan made, nothing. Then there's talks about dams, constitution, 65 war, 71 war is briefly mentioned without much details. I didn't even know what objective resolution was or that Pakistan had communists or the struggles Pakistan had immediately after it was made. I learned that it was happily after soon as British left which is a gigantic lie.

Anyway, the reason i made this thread is...is there any "unbiased" place where i can learn more about Jinnah and our founding fathers?

For example, it was shocking to me to learn that Jinnah wanted to fight India over Kashmir and gave an order to send troops to Kashmir. That man had balls and courage, salute! And Pakistan was nothing back then compared to India. I thought Jinnah was a pacifist like Imran Khan because PTI has been circulating Jinnah blessing Imran Khan picture when IK said he was a pacifist.

What were Jinnah views on democracy? What was his governance like? What did he think of America? Soviets? What was his character like? Did he constantly whine and complain how British and Indians have wronged him with partition or was he a man of actions? Did he take loans?

Why is Jinnah life after partition made such a secret? Why aren't we taught more about Jinnah after Pakistan was made. Shouldn't we know what the man who struggled for Pakistan and is called Baba e Qom thought about style of governments, governance, foreign policy, loans, Kashmir, use of military intervention etc etc.

Start was good but then you make comparison with Imran Khan and PTI made it little off the track.

Without going into details Quaid-e-Azam asked for donations from wealthy and he was given million of rupees (todays billions) from Muslims. He was termed as Kaafir and traitors by Jamiat-e-ulmay islaam.

At the time of creation of SBP he specifically given the task to SBP to ensure to create a monetary system confirms to the principals of Islam.

By the way avoid comparing PTI or Imran Khan with Quaid-e-Azam as both are different people in different circumstances. In terms of Quaid-e-Azam all thugs (aka land lord) was supporting him as Gandhi and Nehru already stated India to be a socialist conutry with land reforms as the first thing to do and thats the reason all the land lords of existing Pakistan supported Quaid-e-Azam.

 

[crankthatskunk]

I just came across this thread by Zaki and it was a really enlightening moment because i realised i don't know anything about our founding fathers - Jinnah and Liaqat Ali Khan and i have been brainwashed.

I have studied Pakistan studies book in school then college then university and i can tell you choda nukat of Quad e Azam but i can't tell what Jinnah did after Pakistan was made. It's a mystery, i thought he just died soon as Pakistan was made lol. I didn't even know Liaquat Ali Khan was a founding father but i knew he was assassinated.

This is a problem. It seems like there's just a brainwashing going on in Pakistan studies books with selective information in it. Jinnah, Jinnah, Jinnah before Pakistan is made, as soon as Pakistan is made, no Jinnah? In fact, i know exactly what the struggles for Pakistan before partition happened are because it's shoved down my brain so much but after Pakistan made, nothing. Then there's talks about dams, constitution, 65 war, 71 war is briefly mentioned without much details. I didn't even know what objective resolution was or that Pakistan had communists or the struggles Pakistan had immediately after it was made. I learned that it was happily after soon as British left which is a gigantic lie.

Anyway, the reason i made this thread is...is there any "unbiased" place where i can learn more about Jinnah and our founding fathers?

For example, it was shocking to me to learn that Jinnah wanted to fight India over Kashmir and gave an order to send troops to Kashmir. That man had balls and courage, salute! And Pakistan was nothing back then compared to India. I thought Jinnah was a pacifist like Imran Khan because PTI has been circulating Jinnah blessing Imran Khan picture when IK said he was a pacifist.

What were Jinnah views on democracy? What was his governance like? What did he think of America? Soviets? What was his character like? Did he constantly whine and complain how British and Indians have wronged him with partition or was he a man of actions? Did he take loans?

Why is Jinnah life after partition made such a secret? Why aren't we taught more about Jinnah after Pakistan was made. Shouldn't we know what the man who struggled for Pakistan and is called Baba e Qom thought about style of governments, governance, foreign policy, loans, Kashmir, use of military intervention etc etc.

I happen to know lot more about Jinnah from my forefathers.

My Granddad studied during his period in the UK. He was in the legal profession as well.
He went back to India later and taken part in the independence movement.
I had a historical family picture with my Granddad and Jinnah, while my very young dad sitting on the floor in their feet. He was like 6/7 years old.

There was another picture of my dad as young man at the time of independence with riffle on his shoulder, my dad was like 19/20 at the time.

My Dad was a soldier of Jinnah, he did volunteered to safeguard the migrants from India to Pakistan. He used to provide safety coverage to the trains bringing the refugees to Pakistan.

My Dad Allhamdolillah saved lives of thousands of Muslims from Hindu and Sikhs goons during migration.

Let me say one thing loud and clear. Some PTI people may not like it. It will also take out any doubt people have that I am not a PTI or IK supporter. I only object and criticise Sharifs, Bhuttos and Zardaris because I strongly feel that these people had been responsible for the destruction of Pakistan. A Pakistan in which my forefathers' played a huge part, both financially and in political and armed efforts.

Knowing what I know from my Dad and Granddad, Jinnah was not only intelligent, but he was very straight speaking and upright person. A powerful and eloquent speaker.

He was so deadly in his ways and manner of speech that even the highest echelon of British Elites including Mountbatten were always on guard when talking to Jinnah.

Dubious Gandhi and Nehro had no chance in front of Jinnah. What they successfully did was used the Hindu's well known traits of " bagal me choori , mun me Ram Ram" well and back stabbed Muslims/Pakistan in the drawing of the borders with the help of the Brits. Who use to think that the Hindus are on their side, because they were buttering them up while always planing against them.

The Kashmir problem and what happened to Punjab's borders was direct result of Nehro's dual faced tactics. In that wife of Mountbatten played a part. Nehro was screwing her.

Jinnah was very intelligent straight talker. In comparison IK is a very simple and ordinary man. He has big thinking and have delivered projects, because of his popularity as a cricketer and people trusting him. This is his best traits.
But unfortunately intelligence par excellence is not one of them.

If PTI people think that IK has to deal with people like Sharifs and Zardaris, they have to think that Jinnah had to deal with Gandhi, Nehro and Patel etc. They were far more cunning and duplicitous than current lot.

Secondly, IK has an advantage that we already have Pakistan and at least some resources and ways to get resources.
Jinnah on the other hands had no such luxuries. He had severe difficulties in negotiations during partition. Even at the time of Partition, huge difficulties created by Nahro with the help of wife of Mountbatten, resulting in Pakistan losing a large chunk of Northern Punjab, planned by the Brits so India would always have land route available for Kashmir.

Kashmir problem as we see it, didn't happen out of the blue. Whole lot of planning and cunning tactics has gone in to it before partition.

Jinnah knew Gandhi inside out, Gandhi never fooled him. Most Muslims who were dealing with Gandhi at the time, including my Granddad knew Gandhi is a fake. So they never took his BS seriously. They were more concerned about his snakes like qualities.
Gandhi knew very well, he can never fool Jinnah, therefore, he never tried to be smart with him.

Gandhi is just the creation of the Brits. They used him during the second Boer war in South Africa.
Read about it here on Wiki, what role Gandhi played to help the Brits.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Ambulance_Corps

As you see, Gandhi was hands in gloves with the Brits 40/50 years before the Independence of Pakistan.
He was their trusted lieutenant. They used him as a bogey with " non violence" mantra. When as a matter of fact, the Hindus/Sikhs killed over million Muslims during the independence.

Liaquat Ali Khan was a member of my Granddad extended family. Extremely rich before independence and extremely poor at the time of his death. That is the story of most unknown and unsung heroes who were part of Quaid's army at the time of independence, including my Granddad and my very young Dad at the time of independence.

My Granddad and his extended family, including Liaquat Ali Khan owned land from north/north east of Dehli to Karnal and beyond in the north and Merut and beyond to Muzaffarnagar in the north east.

Liaquat Ali Khan a England educated Nawab with huge swathe of Land in Karnal, ended up with few rupees in his pockets at the time of his death. That too because having balls, he stood up to the Americans on the issue of giving space to the Yanks in Pakistan, he ultimately payed the price with his own life.

While due to rich father of Nawaz Sharif and poor father of Shahbaz Sharif, with no history of family wealth, Sharifs are now claiming that they had been rich for decades.

People claims their grand father was selling "Phools" at some choice place in India!!

 

[313ghazi]

I just came across this thread by Zaki and it was a really enlightening moment because i realised i don't know anything about our founding fathers - Jinnah and Liaqat Ali Khan and i have been brainwashed.

I have studied Pakistan studies book in school then college then university and i can tell you choda nukat of Quad e Azam but i can't tell what Jinnah did after Pakistan was made. It's a mystery, i thought he just died soon as Pakistan was made lol. I didn't even know Liaquat Ali Khan was a founding father but i knew he was assassinated.

This is a problem. It seems like there's just a brainwashing going on in Pakistan studies books with selective information in it. Jinnah, Jinnah, Jinnah before Pakistan is made, as soon as Pakistan is made, no Jinnah? In fact, i know exactly what the struggles for Pakistan before partition happened are because it's shoved down my brain so much but after Pakistan made, nothing. Then there's talks about dams, constitution, 65 war, 71 war is briefly mentioned without much details. I didn't even know what objective resolution was or that Pakistan had communists or the struggles Pakistan had immediately after it was made. I learned that it was happily after soon as British left which is a gigantic lie.

Anyway, the reason i made this thread is...is there any "unbiased" place where i can learn more about Jinnah and our founding fathers?

For example, it was shocking to me to learn that Jinnah wanted to fight India over Kashmir and gave an order to send troops to Kashmir. That man had balls and courage, salute! And Pakistan was nothing back then compared to India. I thought Jinnah was a pacifist like Imran Khan because PTI has been circulating Jinnah blessing Imran Khan picture when IK said he was a pacifist.

What were Jinnah views on democracy? What was his governance like? What did he think of America? Soviets? What was his character like? Did he constantly whine and complain how British and Indians have wronged him with partition or was he a man of actions? Did he take loans?

Why is Jinnah life after partition made such a secret? Why aren't we taught more about Jinnah after Pakistan was made. Shouldn't we know what the man who struggled for Pakistan and is called Baba e Qom thought about style of governments, governance, foreign policy, loans, Kashmir, use of military intervention etc etc.

You cannot trust a state (any state) to teach you an untainted view of history. This is why I hated history at school, but loved the subject - even as a child.

Unfortunately I think you have to aquire the skills to research and then read lots of different books and opinions.

 

[Pakistansdefender]

I just came across this thread by Zaki and it was a really enlightening moment because i realised i don't know anything about our founding fathers - Jinnah and Liaqat Ali Khan and i have been brainwashed.

I have studied Pakistan studies book in school then college then university and i can tell you choda nukat of Quad e Azam but i can't tell what Jinnah did after Pakistan was made. It's a mystery, i thought he just died soon as Pakistan was made lol. I didn't even know Liaquat Ali Khan was a founding father but i knew he was assassinated.

This is a problem. It seems like there's just a brainwashing going on in Pakistan studies books with selective information in it. Jinnah, Jinnah, Jinnah before Pakistan is made, as soon as Pakistan is made, no Jinnah? In fact, i know exactly what the struggles for Pakistan before partition happened are because it's shoved down my brain so much but after Pakistan made, nothing. Then there's talks about dams, constitution, 65 war, 71 war is briefly mentioned without much details. I didn't even know what objective resolution was or that Pakistan had communists or the struggles Pakistan had immediately after it was made. I learned that it was happily after soon as British left which is a gigantic lie.

Anyway, the reason i made this thread is...is there any "unbiased" place where i can learn more about Jinnah and our founding fathers?

For example, it was shocking to me to learn that Jinnah wanted to fight India over Kashmir and gave an order to send troops to Kashmir. That man had balls and courage, salute! And Pakistan was nothing back then compared to India. I thought Jinnah was a pacifist like Imran Khan because PTI has been circulating Jinnah blessing Imran Khan picture when IK said he was a pacifist.

What were Jinnah views on democracy? What was his governance like? What did he think of America? Soviets? What was his character like? Did he constantly whine and complain how British and Indians have wronged him with partition or was he a man of actions? Did he take loans?

Why is Jinnah life after partition made such a secret? Why aren't we taught more about Jinnah after Pakistan was made. Shouldn't we know what the man who struggled for Pakistan and is called Baba e Qom thought about style of governments, governance, foreign policy, loans, Kashmir, use of military intervention etc etc.

Well everyone who can fight wars don't flunt it on everyone's face. Only fools do that. Everyone is a pacifist until forced to war. War brings destruction of the kind you guys don't know. We can argue that every half a century peoples mindset change. In quarter of a century if people saw war or conflict, they are very anti war.
If they have not seen anything like war they are very pro war.
So basically the first stretegy of fighting a good war is never to flunt it. Besides there are many other ways too. Pm imran has ripped India apart. 2 years India have seen their carefully built reputation go down the drain. And the effects of constant built is coming slowly. The world is not reacting the way we want them to be, but it surely is registering in the corridors of powers and some warnings are given.
I somewhat agree that war (only and only if there is 101 percent chances of winning) is the prefect solution. But you have to lay the foundation for it.
Make India weak. Make them so weak that they won't retailate. Built yourself so much that you are seen as an alternative to India. You cannot just jump into war because you wanted to.
Baba qoom if went into war, he has all the aspects under his eye. There are tribesman with their natural training of fighting. There are local gigit baltistan people who actually fought and won gilgit baltistan from India on 1st November and later merged it with Pakistan.
There are army generals who know what to do.
But here is another angle to it.
When nehru went to United nations because he cannot defend kashmir, and Pakistan was winning it, Qaid e azam agreed, why? Because he and his team belive that nehru would fulfill the obligation of referendum and united nations would offer justice.
If they don't listen and continue to capture kashmir once and for all, then what UN and what nehru and stuff. Times were different then.
But they actually believed in UN and what they got in return is falsehood.
So basically if the first decision is right so what is the second decision?
Besides before the war, qaid e Azim never said he wanted war, never flaunted it. Have you seen anyone more pacifist them him.
Almost all the people who have fought wars in history are pacifists.
Besides Qaideazam wanted a presidential system in country as is said by ishrat Hussain in his book. Reforms are painful. A complete 180 degree change is needed and nobody is ready to do that. Even those who are ready, others are not letting them do that.
Besides if you are not reading good books and reading 9th and 10th grade history books then it's your fault. If you like history read books by good authors. You would find every day and letter and history in them.
History is there written, you don't know where to find them.

 

[Haris Ali2140]

I just came across this thread by Zaki and it was a really enlightening moment because i realised i don't know anything about our founding fathers - Jinnah and Liaqat Ali Khan and i have been brainwashed.

I have studied Pakistan studies book in school then college then university and i can tell you choda nukat of Quad e Azam but i can't tell what Jinnah did after Pakistan was made. It's a mystery, i thought he just died soon as Pakistan was made lol. I didn't even know Liaquat Ali Khan was a founding father but i knew he was assassinated.

This is a problem. It seems like there's just a brainwashing going on in Pakistan studies books with selective information in it. Jinnah, Jinnah, Jinnah before Pakistan is made, as soon as Pakistan is made, no Jinnah? In fact, i know exactly what the struggles for Pakistan before partition happened are because it's shoved down my brain so much but after Pakistan made, nothing. Then there's talks about dams, constitution, 65 war, 71 war is briefly mentioned without much details. I didn't even know what objective resolution was or that Pakistan had communists or the struggles Pakistan had immediately after it was made. I learned that it was happily after soon as British left which is a gigantic lie.

Anyway, the reason i made this thread is...is there any "unbiased" place where i can learn more about Jinnah and our founding fathers?

For example, it was shocking to me to learn that Jinnah wanted to fight India over Kashmir and gave an order to send troops to Kashmir. That man had balls and courage, salute! And Pakistan was nothing back then compared to India. I thought Jinnah was a pacifist like Imran Khan because PTI has been circulating Jinnah blessing Imran Khan picture when IK said he was a pacifist.

What were Jinnah views on democracy? What was his governance like? What did he think of America? Soviets? What was his character like? Did he constantly whine and complain how British and Indians have wronged him with partition or was he a man of actions? Did he take loans?

Why is Jinnah life after partition made such a secret? Why aren't we taught more about Jinnah after Pakistan was made. Shouldn't we know what the man who struggled for Pakistan and is called Baba e Qom thought about style of governments, governance, foreign policy, loans, Kashmir, use of military intervention etc etc.

You read Pakistan Studies till grade 12???

 

[fisher1]

You read Pakistan Studies till grade 12???

5th, 9th then 11th then first semester of university.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Every state/regime wants the folks with the mindset conducive to its survival...

A good read:

Good book to start...

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/73902.The_Sole_Spokesman

I wouldn't have trusted a lady from Pak with a professorship in a US university's liberal arts faculty!!!! I am 100% sure this lady is a CIA agent...

 

[OldenWisdom...قول بزرگ]

I just came across this thread by Zaki and it was a really enlightening moment because i realised i don't know anything about our founding fathers - Jinnah and Liaqat Ali Khan and i have been brainwashed.

I have studied Pakistan studies book in school then college then university and i can tell you choda nukat of Quad e Azam but i can't tell what Jinnah did after Pakistan was made. It's a mystery, i thought he just died soon as Pakistan was made lol. I didn't even know Liaquat Ali Khan was a founding father but i knew he was assassinated.

This is a problem. It seems like there's just a brainwashing going on in Pakistan studies books with selective information in it. Jinnah, Jinnah, Jinnah before Pakistan is made, as soon as Pakistan is made, no Jinnah? In fact, i know exactly what the struggles for Pakistan before partition happened are because it's shoved down my brain so much but after Pakistan made, nothing. Then there's talks about dams, constitution, 65 war, 71 war is briefly mentioned without much details. I didn't even know what objective resolution was or that Pakistan had communists or the struggles Pakistan had immediately after it was made. I learned that it was happily after soon as British left which is a gigantic lie.

Anyway, the reason i made this thread is...is there any "unbiased" place where i can learn more about Jinnah and our founding fathers?

For example, it was shocking to me to learn that Jinnah wanted to fight India over Kashmir and gave an order to send troops to Kashmir. That man had balls and courage, salute! And Pakistan was nothing back then compared to India. I thought Jinnah was a pacifist like Imran Khan because PTI has been circulating Jinnah blessing Imran Khan picture when IK said he was a pacifist.

What were Jinnah views on democracy? What was his governance like? What did he think of America? Soviets? What was his character like? Did he constantly whine and complain how British and Indians have wronged him with partition or was he a man of actions? Did he take loans?

Why is Jinnah life after partition made such a secret? Why aren't we taught more about Jinnah after Pakistan was made. Shouldn't we know what the man who struggled for Pakistan and is called Baba e Qom thought about style of governments, governance, foreign policy, loans, Kashmir, use of military intervention etc etc.

I'm afraid you and the youth of Pakistan have been done a great disservice, not brainwashing, because that would connotate something very elaborate .... I think it is more of the malaise and laissez faire attitude which drives all it's strength from procrastination, few words, fewer answers. Pakistan/region has been serving half baked cakes with gooey centers in a flimsy box to boot, since forever.

The education system is primed to produce able bodied "yes men" not those who can contextualize stuff, opinionate or solve problems. It is very conducive to make a top down system... so the aristocracy sends their kids to foreign schools to not only intermingle with future leaders but also create a master/slave relationship at home with native paper pushers.

Jinnah is only but one you mentioned... Pakistani plurality lacks knowledge and context on most subjects. Most people whom I have come across have made a personal effort to come out of the bubble.

If state only sets benchmarks on what knowledge can actually be manifested and implement tests such as PISA perhaps...
Also more source based reading instead of just curricular templates and it's apparent limitations.

 

[8 pass charlie]

our Pakistan studies book was more interested in mountain range,four seasons.satah Murtafa potohar.ye conference wo conference.shimla conference.

 

[mikkix]

Every state/regime wants the folks with the mindset conducive to its survival...

A good read:

View attachment 629785


I wouldn't have trusted a lady from Pak with a professorship in a US university's liberal arts faculty!!!! I am 100% sure this lady is a CIA agent...

Well you lablled Aisha Jalal as CIA Agent becuase she studied in US and a liberal but not questioning Stanly Wolpert who was a US Citizen, historian. Quite amazing.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Well you lablled Aisha Jalal as CIA Agent becuase she studied in US and a liberal but not questioning Stanly Wolpert who was a US Citizen, historian. Quite amazing.

Professor Wolpert in fact worked for the US establishment during the Cold War era. He had a special interest in Pakistan, where he stayed for quite a long time. As far as I know he was given an honorary Pak citizenship too....

I would prefer a patriot American over the sold out souls at any moment of time..