Pakistan should 'pull out' of Kashmir first, suggests Achakzai

[Indus Pakistan]

If demand of Kashmiris is an independent country, then Achakzai makes sense.

No it does not make sense. Most polls show that Kashmir would go for independance if real choice was given. However tell me how will choice by Kashmiris [being independant] achieved through Pakistan pulling out of AK?

India will peremptorily grab the the vacated AK and maybe you might even get a "thanks". Soon followed by water/hydro disruption. Then followed by a "referandum" which will be a "yes" vote binding all of Kashmir as integral part of India. History should teach you only absolute power and military muscle is right.

Everything else is, well nothing.

 

[Mian Babban]

Well, I'm a Pashtun .

You are not a Pashtun. I have already exposed you.

 

[YeBeWarned]

Haram Ka paisa bol raha hai

 

[UKBengali]

No it does not make sense. Most polls show that Kashmir would go for independance if real choice was given. However tell me how will choice by Kashmiris [being independant] achieved through Pakistan pulling out of AK?

India will peremptorily grab the the vacated AK and maybe you might even get a "thanks". Soon followed by water/hydro disruption. Then followed by a "referandum" which will be a "yes" vote binding all of Kashmir as integral part of India. History should teach you only absolute power and military muscle is right.

Everything else is, well nothing.

The person that suggested this is a very dumb dude.

Only way it would work is if it was done under U.N. and both India and Pakistan
vacated Kashmir. UN peacekeeping troops would provide law and order while a
referendum was held.

 

[S.Y.A]

No it does not make sense. Most polls show that Kashmir would go for independance if real choice was given. However tell me how will choice by Kashmiris [being independant] achieved through Pakistan pulling out of AK?

India will peremptorily grab the the vacated AK and maybe you might even get a "thanks". Soon followed by water/hydro disruption. Then followed by a "referandum" which will be a "yes" vote binding all of Kashmir as integral part of India. History should teach you only absolute power and military muscle is right.

Everything else is, well nothing.

agree with most of the things there, but still we were unable to make the most out of that advantage during '71 on the western front (PA had almost 50k more soldiers than IA on the western front). military might is not everything, tactics, strategy and able commanders are everything. look at the Arabs in '67, or Azerbaijan against Armenia during nagorno-karabakh conflict.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

(PA had almost 50k more soldiers than IA on the western front)

Who told you this? Source please?

Arabs in '67

Arabs were fighting the West. Only Muslims to have in recent times defeated the West are Turks. And Arabs are not Turks.

 

[S.Y.A]

Who told you this? Source please?

PA numbered close to 350k during '71 conflict, with 50k posted in the east. IA numbered at around 500k, with 250k posted in the east. that leaves 250k in the west for IA and ~300k for PA.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

PA numbered close to 350k during '71 conflict, with 50k posted in the east. IA numbered at around 500k, with 250k posted in the east. that leaves 250k in the west for IA and ~300k for PA.

Incorrect. IA posted 200k to the eastern front. That left 300K on the west. That about balances it. Although India could call in more reserves then PK could simply because India has far greater numbers. Of course in history of warfare despite having even numbers armies have prevailed but PA has never produced Guderian, Rommel or Von Runsdet. But the saving grace is neither has India. Both armies field mediocre staff officers. This is to do with culture of South Asia which places store on obediance and general polishing of those in authority. Only the timid and those lacking originality, initiative and guts get promoted to the top. Any headstrong officers get weeded out. This is a cultural trait in South Asia where meritocracy is not the rule - medocrity is.

For example in the east India won but with 5-1 majority tied to getting help from Mukhtis and enjoying the strategic benefit of fighting PA "away from home" and surrounded on three sides with the ocean on the fourth side. That is the victory that Indians still sing about. Says a lot. It's like six of you friends beat up a one guy whose in your backyard and then you brag about how tough you are.

 

[S.Y.A]

this does not mention the numbers of soldiers involved, but is a good read nonetheless about missed opportunities and stupid operational plans:

http://www.defencejournal.com/2002/february/theatre.htm

Incorrect. IA posted 200k to the eastern front. That left 300K on the west. That about balances it.

that still should have been enough to defend the western front, instead Pakistan lost a lot of ground, mostly in the south where one Paksitani division had to face off two Indian divisions, and to quote Kaiser Tufail (Aeronaut blog) the Indians managed to breach the green belt (Umarkot region)

 

[Indus Pakistan]

this does not mention the numbers of soldiers involved, but is a good read nonetheless about missed opportunities and stupid operational plans:

http://www.defencejournal.com/2002/february/theatre.htm

Go to 2:00

that still should have been enough to defend the western front, instead Pakistan lost a lot of ground, mostly in the south where one Paksitani division had to face off two Indian divisions, and to quote Kaiser Tufail (Aeronaut blog) the Indians managed to breach the green belt (Umarkot region)

That is just tactical advantages here and there. The real plum was Azad Kashmir or as they call it P-OK. Did they grab that? No.


Like I said PA ands IA generals are mediocre. Musharaf was last example of this medocrity who sacrificed young men in that debacle called Kargil and then made himself President by launching a armoured attack on PM Hous. He then went on to outdo Kargil even by giving away Kabul to Northern Alliance the bitter fruit of which we are still eating today.

 

[S.Y.A]

by giving away Kabul to Northern Alliance the bitter fruit of which we are still eating today.

okay, that was hardly mushi's fault. no one can stand against USA.

Go to 2:00

I have already seen this vid, an excerpt from the link I posted:

The only answer to Pakistan’s strategic dilemma was to mount a pre-emptive attack on India in Monsoon season before the Indian Army had fully mobilized and the Himalayan Passes had not become snow bound. This did not happen because Indira Gandhi conducted skillful diplomacy and also because Pakistan’s military junta lacked strategic insight. Indian Western Command C in C Candeth admitted the fact that all Indian plans to attack Pakistan would have gone to winds had Pakistan attacked in October 1971.38 Thus Candeth’s remark that “Yahya Khan had tarried too long and had missed the boat”.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

okay, that was hardly mushi's fault. no one can stand against USA.

Who said anything about standing up against USA. America was after OBL. Go back to that time and see who they were after. US had even dilly dallyed with Taliban in quest to get gas/oil from Central Asia. What Mush should have done is invaded Kabul with USA. sent in SSG regiment with US Marine Corps. Mission. Secure Kabul while US hunts OBL. Pak tells US we will help American contingent on one fair request. Our enemy [Northern Alliance] must not enter Kabul. SSG are going in to Kabul to preclude that possibility and at same time help US to topple Taliban. Further to make sure whatever government is made post Taliban Pak has a say so. Simple. But this needed somebody with guts. I don't like Gen. Zia but I am certain he would have done that - he had guts.

And with regards to Bangladesh the moment the Banglas picked arms it was all over. No army, not United States Army combined with Red Army could have suppressed the Banglas. 70 million of them in high density delta and 1,000 miles distant. Not a chance. Yanks got liked by Viet Cong around the corner from Bangla in much the same environment around the same time.

PA should have pulled out every man back home and just let Banglas go. They should have known guns are not going to work and India will take advantage leaving whatever PA units in Bangla in untenable position. So what did our genius do? send more men to get sacrificed. Guns work in places like Balochistan. Small population, low density and contigous without direct access to India.

 

[tarrar]

How you pull the RAW & NDS dil*o out your a$$.