Pakistan should not become like Iran says Iranian-American political commentator

[Yankee-stani]

@Starlord

problems with reza aslan 'no god but God'
-----
-belief that prophet did idolatry
-misplacing the hanifs role in islam
-hanifs extent in arabia is wrong
-rejecting the birth year of prophet
-rejecting miracles of hazrat amina and prophet
-rejecting divine source of kaaba and zamzam
-wrong teaching of Allah swt as 'sky god'

Reza Aslan wrote in his book that Hanifs, whose role he overplayed, were around preaching monotheistic religions before Prophet Muhammad saws and he claimed that Prophet Muhammad saws plagiarized it. He also expresses doubt of Prophet Muhammad saws being one entity. He claims they could very well be various people amalgamated into one story.

As you know, this would definitely put him out of the fold of Islam.

Reza Aslan is just a pawn in the American Muslim community just like the so called Quranists

 

[YeBeWarned]

@Starlord

problems with reza aslan 'no god but God'
-----
-belief that prophet did idolatry
-misplacing the hanifs role in islam
-hanifs extent in arabia is wrong
-rejecting the birth year of prophet
-rejecting miracles of hazrat amina and prophet
-rejecting divine source of kaaba and zamzam
-wrong teaching of Allah swt as 'sky god'

Reza Aslan wrote in his book that Hanifs, whose role he overplayed, were around preaching monotheistic religions before Prophet Muhammad saws and he claimed that Prophet Muhammad saws plagiarized it. He also expresses doubt of Prophet Muhammad saws being one entity. He claims they could very well be various people amalgamated into one story.

As you know, this would definitely put him out of the fold of Islam.

guess i have to read it one more time ..

 

[ThunderCat]

No, the term was used for people from what is now the Republic of India too. In fact, people from KPK, Balochistan, Gilgit-Baltistan and sometimes even Sindh were not considered to be part of Hind.

That is the Persian and Arabic words for the Indus. Can you even read map?

So why are you arguing?

Because just because so many native South Asians were non-Muslim does not mean they were the same religion as one another. They were distinct from one another as they were from the Muslims

I think you'll find most people laughing at you on this forum if you believe "India" the country existed prior to 1947. "India" was created a day after Pakistan.

I think you mean Gurmukhi and Shahmukhi. And no, that's not the same. Urdu and Hindi are recognised as distinct languages.

Yeah the way Punjabi is "two distinct languages". Hindustani has two varieties and scripts scripts. Nastaliq=Urdu, Devanagri=Hindi.

That's not what I said, you're misunderstanding the point. Most Pakistanis would say they feel closer to a Muslim from outside of Pakistan than a Kafir from Pakistan, and that's how Muslims are supposed to feel. That's not to say we look at Kafirs from Pakistan with disgust, but we are obviously rather distant from them ideologically and (to a certain extent) culturally.

Only radicalized ones do. Aside from religious customs the culture between a non-Muslim Pakistani and a Muslim one is minimal, unless you count the provincial cultural distinctions.

No you can't lol. I'm not an ethno-nationalist.

You seem more like an Indian Muslims from your comments. And for the record since Pakistanis are not an ethnicity, I can't be an ethnonationalist.

I never said that, you're putting words in my mouth to try and make me look bad.

Not directly, but indirectly.

But if you insist on discussing the topic, Muslims should help other Muslims, regardless of ethnicity. Islam is not compatible with ethno-nationalism, it's a global religion which is meant to unite humanity rather than divide it further.

Yeah as long as it's not Arab nationalism or Persian nationalism. Because according to the likes of you if you don't rally for their cause, then one becomes a "kuffer" . If you oppose putting their interests above yours, you become a "kuffr". Nice try.

Again, I never mentioned this, but since you brought it up:

https://www.harappadna.org/2012/05/harappaworld-admixture/ (SW Asian admixture comes from Arabia and the Levant)

Kashmiri Paharis (overwhelmingly Muslim): 2% SW Asian admixture
Kashmiri Pandits (overwhelmingly not Muslim): 0% SW Asian admixture

Punjabi Arains (overwhelmingly Muslim): 2% SW Asian admixture
Muslim Punjabi Jatts: 2% SW Asian admixture
Punjabi Brahmins: 0% SW Asian admixture

Muslim Gujaratis: 4% SW Asian admixture
Gujarati Patels (overwhelmingly not Muslim): 0% SW Asian admixture

Muslim Punjabi Gujjar, obtained 3% SW Asian admixture

https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?12411-Pakistani-Gujjar-Results-Harappa

Here are some studies on Muslim Gujjars from north-western India, they are shown to be genetically and physically distinct from their non-Muslim counterparts:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3163234

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3812661

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14524001

The Semitic haplogroup J1 is the true Arab haplogroup and does not represent later Arabized folks such as levants. You seem to be using using the common Pan-Medditeranian J2 in your response to prove a linkage between Levants (who are not even Arabs, but Arabized) and South Asian Muslims.

 

[Hamza913]

That is the Persian and Arabic words for the Indus

The geographical naming of the Indus has always been a bit iffy due to it's existence at the crossroads of multiple regions, but generally speaking, the regions I stated have not been considered a part of Hind.

Can you even read map?

Can you? Better yet, can you even use basic grammar correctly?

I think you'll find most people laughing at you on this forum if you believe "India" the country existed prior to 1947. "India" was created a day after Pakistan.

We separated ourselves from British India.

Hindustani has two varieties and scripts scripts. Nastaliq=Urdu, Devanagri=Hindi.

The differences are far more than just the script.

Only radicalized ones do.

No, only normal Muslims do. For you to claim that such individuals are radicalised only shows just how little you know about Islam, Muslims and Pakistanis:

Such a term is also inherently subjective and meaningless.

side from religious customs the culture between a non-Muslim Pakistani and a Muslim one is minimal

Religious customs are a major aspect of our culture. To ignore them when comparing ourselves to others is laughably silly.

Not directly, but indirectly.

A claim presented without evidence can be ignored without evidence.

Yeah as long as it's not Arab nationalism or Persian nationalism.

Stop acting idiotic, these ideologies are not considered anymore halal than the nationalism you promote.

It has become quite clear to me just what kind of an individual I am conversing with. Step up your game or I'm not wasting my time with you, it's that simple.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Just wanted to add my two pieces.

Prophet Muhammad saws gave us the hadith where he stated Islam will reach Sindh wal-Hind.

The Arabs at the prophet’s time knew the difference between the two and viewed them as different civilizations.

 

[ThunderCat]

The geographical naming of the Indus has always been a bit iffy due to it's existence at the crossroads of multiple regions, but generally speaking, the regions I stated have not been considered a part of Hind.

Hind is the Perian cognate of Sindh, land of the Indus. Sindhu=Hindi=Indus=India. These were all cognates for the region within Pakistan.

Can you? Better yet, can you even use basic grammar correctly?

We're talking about you not me.

We separated ourselves from British India.

Which was not the same state as the modern country which came into existence in 1947. Prior to the British the Greek name used by the Europeans refered to the Indus basin. The British expanded the meaning to refer to the entire subcontinent. That is your problem. You confuse history and terminologies.

The differences are far more than just the script.

Punjabi, Sindhi, Gujarati etc. have two scripts, and other differences amongst them, but they are still classed as single languages with different varieties. They are classified the same language. The same is true for Hindustani. Hindi and Urdu are two varieties of Hindustani. Linguistic analysis wouldn't consider them different language based on vocab. The phonology, morphology, phonetics and syntax are what counts.

Albanian (and just about every language) has more than one variety such as Ghek and Tosk. But these are not considered language, just two varieties of Albanian.

No, only normal Muslims do. For you to claim that such individuals are radicalised only shows just how little you know about Islam, Muslims and Pakistanis:

View attachment 539181

Such a term is also inherently subjective and meaningless.



Religious customs are a major aspect of our culture. To ignore them when comparing ourselves to others is laughably silly.

Didn't state that it is, but culturally a Muslim and Christian from Pakistani Punjab are closer than the Muslim Punjabi to an Arab.



A claim presented without evidence can be ignored without evidence.

Stop acting idiotic, these ideologies are not considered anymore halal than the nationalism you promote.

It has become quite clear to me just what kind of an individual I am conversing with. Step up your game or I'm not wasting my time with you, it's that simple.

Then why do you promote them? Disguising them under some "Islamic duty" that Pakistanis have towards Arabs and Iranians won't hide that you promote their nationalism. "Muslims should help other Muslims" yeah in other words rally for the Iranian and Arab cause, or else you're a "kuffer".

As if they would pledge the same allegiance to us. No thanks. Defending your ideology by calling someone else a kuffer doesn't make it legitimate. Hopefully with the age of the Internet, the Wahabbi and Ayatollah poison infecting Pakistan slowly die out and we will free ourselves from their influence.

No, the term was used for people from what is now the Republic of India too. In fact, people from KPK, Balochistan, Gilgit-Baltistan and sometimes even Sindh were not considered to be part of Hind.

Sorry had to laugh at that one. Hind is the Persian cognate of Sindh/Sindhu.

It refered to the ancestors of modern Sindhis and Punjabis regardless of religion. Hindu Kush for example means killer of the Indus people because people from that area would die when contacting these mountains.

Hindko people are Muslims and called such because it refers to the Indus. It became a term for the republic of India after 1947 when the term "Hindu" was for any non-Muslim religion even if they were equally distinct from one another.