Pakistan should be a Secular State

[Dance]

Can anyone tell me how secular countries are ANY better and dont have THEIR share of problems?

Every country has their share of problems.


But the way Pakistan is being run is certainly very problematic! Pakistan has a lot of different sects of Muslim and an okay amount of minorities. Its easy for groups like the TTP and LEJ to use the laws and ideologies present in Pakistan and start massacring people.

 

[Darth Vader]

The problem is that Jinnah wasn't clear about what he wanted exactly and he died too early. So no one really knows

Personally I think Jinnah wanted a state that based on Islamic ideals and principles , just like how a lot of western democracies are based on Christian ideals but that was primarily secular in governance.

Remember Pakistan wasn't a declared an Islamic republic until 1956 and Islam being the state religion did not come until the 1973 constitution under Bhutto.

Also remember the first constitution was written in 1956, long after Jinnah's death. So again we don't know what exactly he wanted

Till 1958 Pakistan didnt have one , the document which we were using as constitution was gov act of india which was created in 1935,
Still If Jinnah just wanted democracy and secular state then why he didnt became the 1st president of india when they offered him , but he wanted a state which can be ruled under Islamic law a video just for you maybe this shows what Qaid e azam wanted

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=171350389665728

@truthlover @OrionHunter @Aeronaut

 

[Contrarian]

A state does not become Islamic simply because it is called Islamic. Similarly a state meets certain criteria of social justice, equality and human solidarity, it is perfectly Islamic, even if there isn’t a single Muslim living there. ”.

What a phenomenal statement truthlover.

Quoted to emphasize.

 

[Dance]

Till 1958 Pakistan didnt have one , the document which we were using as constitution was gov act of india which was created in 1935,
Still If Jinnah just wanted democracy and secular state then why he didnt became the 1st president of india when they offered him , but he wanted a state which can be ruled under Islamic law a video just for you maybe this shows what Qaid e azam wanted

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=171350389665728

Gandhi offered him presidency but that was never taken seriously. Congress (especially Nehru) would never have let that occur.

Again Jinnah wasn't clear on what he wanted exactly and he died right after Pakistan was formed. So no one can say for sure that Jinnah wanted this or that.

One thing we can be clear on is that Jinnah would have never waned the Bhutto/Zia Pakistan that we see today.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

As Jinnah's own famous words go by : Religion should not be allowed to come into Politics….Religion is merely a matter between man and God”.
Pakistan needs to implement the approach adopted by countries like Turkey , Malaysia so that real progress can be achieved instead of creating an army of defenders of faith who cause more damage to the nation than do anything for its progress practically .

LOL quaid e Azam nvr said that.

Stop spreading wrong info.

Also we had brought this Country in the name of Islam and a Separate country for Muslims. So it Being Islamic State is completely Justified.

As the majority still and will support it being a Islamic Country over any man made laws and people will work hard to keep it on/more committed those laws.



Even if we agree then what really what have countries who r secular have achieved ?

Look at Turkey, India they r secular countries but no heaven either. So the thing is what the solution for our Problems r no secularism but its the System overall ie Capitalism who is the problem.

 

[Darth Vader]

Gandhi offered him presidency but that was never taken seriously. Congress (especially Nehru) would never have let that occur.

Again Jinnah wasn't clear on what he wanted exactly and he died right after Pakistan was formed. So no one can say for sure that Jinnah wanted this or that.

One thing we can be clear on is that Jinnah would have never waned the Bhutto/Zia Pakistan that we see today.

Can you please tell me How can someone fight for years without knowing what he wants,if he wasnt Sure then why he always Used islamic state For the people of subcontinent

 

[Kompromat]

@Dance

'Pakistan wasn't declared an Islamic republic until 1956.'

Yes 'maybe' because, we were 'not a republic' until 1956 anyway. We were part of the commonwealth with King George as our head of state. In essence, we became independant in 1956.

Please do justice to history, because it cant change, only we do.

 

[ZYXW]

“The great majority of us are Muslims. We follow the teachings of the Prophet Mohammed (may peace be upon him). We are members of the brotherhood of Islam in which all are equal in rights, dignity and self-respect. Consequently, we have a special and a very deep sense of unity. But make no mistake: Pakistan is not a theocracy or anything like it.” - Jinnah

 

[Kompromat]

@shahzadasweet

Qaid was 'crystal clear' about what he wanted, if people decide to blow the breath at the window and complain about poor visibility, its their choice. Pakistan's essense as a matter of ideology is written in a book format, a book that 99.99% Pakistanis have never heard of. Who's fault is that?

 

[asad71]

1.The Basic Principles of the state of Pakistan make it an Islamic nation. If she were to give up these and adopt Secularism, then there would be no justification in remaining separate from Indian Republic.

2. It is a common mistake to quote from Jinnah's speech to the CA forgetting the back-ground. That was the time when the riots were raging and refugees were rushing in. It was a time for a conscientious humane leader like Jinnah to talk of religious harmony and rights of minorities. Mush has been the number one offender on this count. To know Jinnah's mind truly one needs to read a lot. But a fantastic summation is his speech at the opening of SBP. It is a master-piece which surmises much of his thoughts on Pakistan's ideology. He had taken the risk to travel from Ziarat to open SBP against the orders of his doctor.

 

[Yzd Khalifa]

No one should dictate what the Pakistani society should look like.

The faith is a part of their own identity.

 

[Dance]

@shahzadasweet

Qaid was 'crystal clear' about what he wanted, if people decide to blow the breath at the window and complain about poor visibility, its their choice. Pakistan's essense as a matter of ideology is written in a book format, a book that 99.99% Pakistanis have never heard of. Who's fault is that?

Please, show me clear evidence about his "crystal clear" vision for Pakistan. One that cant be countered with him saying one thing at one period and then saying the opposite in another period.

 

[Dance]

Here's a view from Yasser Hamdani:

Jinnah Was The Most Secular Statesman Produced By The Muslim World | Pak Tea House

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan

I'm not saying he's absolutely right, but this is another point of view that should be taken into account

 

[k_arura]

I was trying retrieve a you tube program of Shahidnama by Dr. Shahid masood with Roedad khan and other "lumanaries" and the subject was the nitty-gritties of what constitutes khilafat/caliphate etc.. Man, you would be surprised nobody had any cogent idea and were mumbling and talking incoherently as Shahid masood ripped into their "(non)explanations."

I am very sure people just know this word and that's all. If they try it, it will be a case of out of the frying pan into the fire

 

[LEGENDARY WARRIOR]

Our own system - Khilafat, has been out of use for the past 1400 years (almost). In this day and age we can not have a looney living in a cave

This is one of the lame and stupid arguments from the people who never studied the system and ultimately become an expert in government affairs.

For the past 1400 years. Its like you are suggesting that the system of state should be Android compatible or else you cannot implement it.
The Kingship (or absolute monarchy) system is still present in many countries around the world. What about that??

somewhere declaring himself as Khalifah and expect others to accept him as such.

Just to make you understand! In Khilafat System a person does'nt just DECLARES himself a Kalifah. It has a proper procedure to bring up the Caliph from Majlis-e-Shooraa.

Plus the first time the people failed this system within a generation.

So this makes it a system of no value ehh?? Western democracy has failed many times too... Better to mark that in your notes too..

Any modern interpretation of this system would have to be along the lines of democratic institutions, transparency, openness, and checks & balances. I doubt any of the most vocal supporters of Khilafat have any faith in any of these. So, for now, we are not worthy.

Well, Khilafat actually offers a better transparency, openness, and check & balances as compared to a Secular State democracy.. So vocal supporters in your eyes are actually strong believers!!