Pakistan/ Sharia or Democracy?

[FreekiN]

Watch people flee Pakistan if Sharia law comes into power. Especially those who can afford it.

Sharia just wouldn't work. We have a movie industry that is trying it's best to thrive, a fashion industry just leaving it's fetus stage, way too many banks that use the interest system, and a developing co-gender society. All of this would just flat-out die if Saudi Sharia came into work.

If there is one thing I would support, is death for corruption. That would be more than enough to strike fear into those politicians hearts.

 

[Kompromat]

Watch people flee Pakistan if Sharia law comes into power. Especially those who can afford it.

Sharia just wouldn't work. We have a movie industry that is trying it's best to thrive, a fashion industry just leaving it's fetus stage, way too many banks that use the interest system, and a developing co-gender society. All of this would just flat-out die if Saudi Sharia came into work.

If there is one thing I would support, is death for corruption. That would be more than enough to strike fear into those politicians hearts.

i dont know how many times i would have to tell you that we are not going to have a saudi like sharia law

i would be the first person to rejcet this option .because it is just one sect ruling saudi arabia and i need everyone on board not just one sect or a favoured group.

What i am looking for is more like Malyasian islamic system but not exactly that one either..in other words a whole new islamic democracy not like any other but custome made for Pakistan which can accomodate everything that is favoured by national intrests .

i hope you will understand where i am coming from.

 

[FreekiN]

i dont know how many times i would have to tell you that we are not going to have a saudi like sharia law

i would be the first person to rejcet this option .because it is just one sect ruling saudi arabia and i need everyone on board not just one sect or a favoured group.

What i am looking for is more like Malyasian islamic system but not exactly that one either..in other words a whole new islamic democracy not like any other but custome made for Pakistan which can accomodate everything that is favoured by national intrests .

i hope you will understand where i am coming from.

I see, a liberal Sharia? That hopefully doesn't involve public stoning's?

 

[Kompromat]

I see, a liberal Sharia? That hopefully doesn't involve public stoning's?

yes i think we would be making some ammendments in islamic punishments . When i say that i mean that the punishments can be changed into longer detention or some other form equalant to stonning .

But i would like to see some public presence in the execution of national criminals that we make sure everyone learns a lesson.

 

[evolutionist]

Democracy & Islam are incompatible. Pakistan is a theocratic country. It does not give equal rights to its citizens, as in America a minority person can run and win Presidency. In Pakistan a person belonging to minority religion can not even run for Presidency or PM or Army chief. Blasphemy law only applies to Islam but you can burn books of other religions. The constitution of Pakistan is flawed, this pseudo democracy has not worked for 60 years. So it has decide for once and all whether it should adopt true secular democracy or resort to total Shariya. Any other option is useless, is just status quo situation.

 

[waraich66]

And as you can see that even in Iran you now have power hungry Mullahs who are refusing freedom of expression and rig the elections.

Since we are not God Almighty, their is no way for us to know under Shariah system which 'Mullah' or 'Amir-ul-Momineen' is a genuine leader and which is not.

In the absence of God like powers to determine the quality of our leadership, the best option left is for the citizens to observe the performance of their leaders, and then kick them out if they are not up to par, or given them another chance if they do perform well.

The problem is not with democracy, the problem is with the system not being allowed to play out completely and the people not participating in the process and those that do participate electing the same old faces.

In Shariah system of government, the Shourah is governing body just like national security council to protect the country from dictator rule or one man show, present democracy is similar or worst them marshal law.

We dont want democracy which provide safe exit through NRO to corrupt leaders and CJ and assembly have no power to kick him out.

 

[waraich66]

yes i think we would be making some ammendments in islamic punishments . When i say that i mean that the punishments can be changed into longer detention or some other form equalant to stonning .

But i would like to see some public presence in the execution of national criminals that we make sure everyone learns a lesson.

You need fatwa to modify the Islamic punishment , through Ijtehad it is possible or not any mufti can tell us?

 

[waraich66]

350 Million Muslims vs 1 Billion Hindus..Who do you think would get the center government..Muslims would never be able to form Federal Government.
Anyway back to topic.Democracy and Independent judiciary is fine.No need for Sharia and Saudi success is only because of oil.Should the oil finish Saudi Arabia will get uprising and insurgency.Obviousely you can vote for Ultra Right Wing Parties (Religious Parties), Right Wing (PMLN) or Left Wing (MQM, PPP and ANP)[/QUOTE

Then do you want talaban style shariah?

 

[Desert Fox]

Well, we've already tried Democracy and Dictatorship many times! So why not try Shariah?

 

[gambit]

Well, we've already tried Democracy and Dictatorship many times! So why not try Shariah?

On the surface, your question may sound flippant, but is a profound question and one that begs a deeper question -- Why is it that some societies are able to be functional democracies and some failed, sometimes catastrophically? What is missing here is the understanding that 'democracy' is both a goal and a process and neither cannot outpace the other beyond a certain threshold. Democracy is the goal in that once a society realized its flaws regarding internal politics and install institutions to correct those flaws. Democracy is a process in that human institutions, policies and executions are inherently flawed and that this society continuously fine tune, upgrade or even remove and replace flawed institutions and methods.

 

[Kompromat]

On the surface, your question may sound flippant, but is a profound question and one that begs a deeper question -- Why is it that some societies are able to be functional democracies and some failed, sometimes catastrophically? What is missing here is the understanding that 'democracy' is both a goal and a process and neither cannot outpace the other beyond a certain threshold. Democracy is the goal in that once a society realized its flaws regarding internal politics and install institutions to correct those flaws. Democracy is a process in that human institutions, policies and executions are inherently flawed and that this society continuously fine tune, upgrade or even remove and replace flawed institutions and methods.

Thanks Gambit , this is what we are looking for but in an Islamic way

 

[waraich66]

Well, we've already tried Democracy and Dictatorship many times! So why not try Shariah?

When we talk about Shariah statu of liberty started shivering

Our leaders are their slaves , they never think to disobey their US masters.Peace full revolution with the people of country can only bring any change .

 

[Kompromat]

You need fatwa to modify the Islamic punishment , through Ijtehad it is possible or not any mufti can tell us?

I hope with the help of some top of the line scholars Ijmaa and Ijtihad would be achieved and The day we would achieved " Ijtihad " ....then do i have to tell you what would be waiting for us in our Future

 

[waraich66]

On the surface, your question may sound flippant, but is a profound question and one that begs a deeper question -- Why is it that some societies are able to be functional democracies and some failed, sometimes catastrophically? What is missing here is the understanding that 'democracy' is both a goal and a process and neither cannot outpace the other beyond a certain threshold. Democracy is the goal in that once a society realized its flaws regarding internal politics and install institutions to correct those flaws. Democracy is a process in that human institutions, policies and executions are inherently flawed and that this society continuously fine tune, upgrade or even remove and replace flawed institutions and methods.

Gambit,


You are right that democracy is very good system for western nations but for muslim society there are certain limitations ie Halal Haram, Family shariah Law,Shariah law for crimes ,Zakat, Intrest free economy which can not be practiced in democratic system.

That is reason we got independence , otherwise we could live with Indian demcratic society.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Constitution = Set of rules approved by scholors to help govern how people like their lives with in a society, most of the rules are in some form effected or are derrivitives from religious views

Sharia = Set of rules approved by scholors with in confines of a faith which are changable and maintained by scholors , and people with considerable knowledge

Both are just rules -

Can either set of rules be abused ? Yes

Example Nato , abused the laws and confined innocent ppl in Guatanamo bay and Abu Guraib etc, ammunity for killer contractors in Iraq and dishonorbale discharges to guilty killers

Do critics exist that say constitution and bill or rights does not protect rights .... yes lots

Can Sharia laws be abused ? Yes

Look at Taliban un educated and unsuitable to implement laws , to protect society - suicide attacks , and destruction of women schools etc

Do critics , banish Sharia ??? Yes many

Both rules are changable by debate and scholorly consultation

Which would I prefer ??? I personally prefer , Constitution /Bill of rights not that it has anyting special but what makes it work is that its enforced by Law and Justice

Give me Justice and that woudl work for me

The RULES don't make or break society its the human who implements the rules is who determins , someone will get abused or someone will get justice