Unironically: Could declaring Sharia Law in Pakistan solve it's insurgency problem?

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

You live in Canada and your definition of Liberal is tooo liberal.

As I said many times, Killing, Stealing, Zinah should be punished.

But state doesnt need to enforce Hijab rule, policing men who dont pray Jumah, banning women to watch football, etc

Bro, in the context of nation-building, having precise definitions for terms is essential. When I think of "liberal" I am thinking of Adam Smith, John Locke, Thomas Hobbes, and so on (because I studied them).

The concept of being "liberal" comes from a rich tradition that leads society to go a certain way, but with Islam, it's different. With Islam, it's an issue of what God allows and doesn't allow. It isn't "liberal" or even "conservative", but a unique paradigm.

For example, Islam has rules on how the economy should work, e.g., prohibiting private hands from owning mineral wealth, natural resources, etc, but discouraging a "nanny-state" or "welfare state" that doles out money to people who don't work for it. It doesn't have a leaning, but just marches to the beat of its own drum/duff.

 

[TheSolution]

The type of content I'm seeing on pdf after couple years. It seems this forum is not what it used to be. I've seen a massive purge in the last few years especially under Bajwa. And now this forums seems to have been highjacked by suspicious "Pakistanis" profile who are bending over backwards to support American interests in the region/world like Ukraine and reigniting the bogus WoT in Afghanistan. $2+ Trillion is too big of a windfall for American and Pakistani civmil infrastructure to miss out on.

How have you concluded such a thing from a post suggesting that Sharia Law could possibly be the solution to a large chunk of Pakistan's problems?

You keep parroting the same line of the radical extremists back in the day who kept going on about an American war. The war has always been extremist ethnofacist Afghans. Since before the Americans entered, and a year after they left today.

You seem to be oblivious to the crimes of Afghanistan which is why you keep parroting the American line.

 

[Indos]

Bro, in the context of nation-building, having precise definitions for terms is essential. When I think of "liberal" I am thinking of Adam Smith, John Locke, Thomas Hobbes, and so on (because I studied them).

The concept of being "liberal" comes from a rich tradition that leads society to go a certain way, but with Islam, it's different. With Islam, it's an issue of what God allows and doesn't allow. It isn't "liberal" or even "conservative", but a unique paradigm.

For example, Islam has rules on how the economy should work, e.g., prohibiting private hands from owning mineral wealth, natural resources, etc, but discouraging a "nanny-state" or "welfare state" that doles out money to people who don't work for it. It doesn't have a leaning, but just marches to the beat of its own drum/duff.

In term of restriction in state level, the Islamic Law is pretty liberal. As some one learning economics, I tend to see liberal as something with less restriction. So we are hearing liberal market economy, stuff like that

That is what I mean.

 

[CatSultan]

They would find something to say "It's not real Shariah" because the people fighting can't even define what shariah is. I don't think declaring shariah law will do anything but make it look like Pakistan is trying to appease rebels

In term of restriction in state level, the Islamic Law is pretty liberal. As some one learning economics, I tend to see liberal as something with less restriction. So we are hearing liberal market economy, stuff like that

That is what I mean.

Islamic law is very liberal in terms of market economy but not very liberal socially.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

In term of restriction in state level, the Islamic Law is pretty liberal. As some one learning economics, I tend to see liberal as something with less restriction. So we are hearing liberal market economy, stuff like that

That is what I mean.

Yes, in some respects, Islam has attributes that people may call liberal. For example, Islam has rules on how the economy should work, and one of those rules is that people (men, women, Muslim, non-Muslim) be allowed to set up businesses. The state cannot tax those businesses, it cannot impose minimum wage (it's up to the market to decide pay), there's no tax on imports OR exports, etc.

Yet, at the same time, Islam doesn't allow the private sector to own water, minerals, natural resources (like large oil and gas deposits, etc). So, in this sense, someone might say Islam has a socialist mindset. But even this is incorrect. The minerals and natural resources are the right of the Community (i.e., neither state nor private businesses), and the Community decides how to spend that money.

It can literally have a nationwide vote on whether to make oil and gas free, or to grant bonuses based on oil/gas revenue, or build hospitals and schools, etc. The State has the oblige by the Shura, even if the Community's decision is questionable (we know in Pakistan the people would 100% want free gas and a bonus and a free hospital).

The concept of "Community" as an agent is unique to Islam. In liberal democracies, you have the individual and the state, which is synonymous with the public. However, in Islam, you have the Individual, the Community, and the State. There's an implicit division of power because, without the Community, the State cannot do much and, without the Individual, there's no Community.

 

[Indos]

Yes, in some respects, Islam has attributes that people may call liberal. For example, Islam has rules on how the economy should work, and one of those rules is that people (men, women, Muslim, non-Muslim) be allowed to set up businesses. The state cannot tax those businesses, it cannot impose minimum wage (it's up to the market to decide pay), there's no tax on imports OR exports, etc.

Yet, at the same time, Islam doesn't allow the private sector to own water, minerals, natural resources (like large oil and gas deposits, etc). So, in this sense, someone might say Islam has a socialist mindset. But even this is incorrect. The minerals and natural resources are the right of the Community (i.e., neither state nor private businesses), and the Community decides how to spend that money.

It can literally have a nationwide vote on whether to make oil and gas free, or to grant bonuses based on oil/gas revenue, or build hospitals and schools, etc. The State has the oblige by the Shura, even if the Community's decision is questionable (we know in Pakistan the people would 100% want free gas and a bonus and a free hospital).

The concept of "Community" as an agent is unique to Islam. In liberal democracies, you have the individual and the state, which is synonymous with the public. However, in Islam, you have the Individual, the Community, and the State. There's an implicit division of power because, without the Community, the State cannot do much and, without the Individual, there's no Community.

Well, I have read whole Quran verses, but many specifics that you write I never read it in Quran. Many that you write most probably written by Islamic scholar that try to define what is Islamic economic system according to their mind.

What is in Quran about economic is only about allowing trade, accountancy (recording the transaction), etc, simple stuff but related to market system/capitalism. There is Zakat as well there.

Quran as I said not really going into specific, like in politics it is stated in Quran about consultations system as ideal system, but not too specifics, just the essence, If it is too specifics, Muslim cannot adapt with the changing world.

Once again you talk about liberal in social science, while I am more on the real essence of the words itself. As social science uses that word, not that word is created by that modern definition.

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Better dont too serious in responding my word about liberal, I just want to say that real Islamic system is not something to be afraid of

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Well, I have read whole Quran verses, but many specifics that you write I never read it in Quran. Many that you write most probably written by Islamic scholar that try to define what is Islamic economic system according to their mind.

What is in Quran about economic is only about allowing trade, accountancy (recording the transaction), etc, simple stuff but related to market system/capitalism. There is Zakat as well there.

Quran as I said not really going into specific, like in politics it is stated in Quran about consultations system as ideal system, but not too specifics, just the essence, If it is too specifics, Muslim cannot adapt with the changing world.

Once again you talk about liberal in social science, while I am more on the real essence of the words itself. As social science uses that word, not that word is created by that modern definition.

--------------------------------------------

Better dont too serious in responding my word as liberal, I just want to say that real Islamic system is not something to be afraid of

Many of the specific rulings about the economy come from Ahadith and 'Ijmaa' as-Sahaba.

 

[Signalian]

Did Jinnah envision sharia for Pakistan ?

 

[TheSolution]

Did Jinnah envision sharia for Pakistan ?

We can't keep going back to what Jinnah wanted specifically down to every detail, the world is constantly ever-changing and can't be judged by the time of 1947

We must also consider the unique situation of Pakistan, and what it requires, as well as what the people of Pakistan want.

In my opinion as long as Pakistan progresses and flourishes, becomes a formidable power - We have done Jinnah proud.

 

[Maula Jatt]

Did Jinnah envision sharia for Pakistan ?

jinnah is not our abbu dude, Pakistan and its people are the priority here

 

[TheSolution]

jinnah is not our abbu dude, Pakistan and its people are the priority here

Jinnah is abbu of Pakistan though

 

[mudassar93]

All these ppl saying pakistan is islamic bla bla need mental checkup .

pakistan is as islamic as egypt . Just putting " no law shall be against quran and sunnah" is just an hogwash ,an excuse ,a lollypop against mullahs and religious forces by liberal seculer donkeys ruling the nation. A law is valid till its upheld and islamic law is not upheld by all the abcd educated westernized elite or institutions created by them.

Pakistan need mullahs to rule ! these currupt dirty movie playing characters, made and educated in schools and colleges and universaties lack any moral values. Only ppl who are attached to mullah can be sincere to the ppl at large baqi sirf mujray pe apna imaan bech dete hain.

 

[COOKie LOOkie....]

Marshal Law beats Sharia Law!

 

[TheSolution]

Marshal Law beats Sharia Law!

Bro I heard about that too, is it real?

Marshal Law started yet? Maybe they will "arrest" Imran Khan and bring him to national TV, who knows?

 

[COOKie LOOkie....]

Bro I heard about that too, is it real?

Marshal Law started yet? Maybe they will "arrest" Imran Khan and bring him to national TV, who knows?

No nothing yet.
They need USA and Arab blessings first and Goodluck getting that.